Finbar Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 (edited) Just running through a few ideas for some new rig options, and one of them is involving using an HD500 at my feet as a selection of preamps, pushing a power amp. Ideally I'd like a valve power section though, and I'm not really sure what I'm looking at in terms of the choice of what's out there. There seems to be a plethora of stuff about for guitar, but I'm under the impression that stuff you want to run bass through should have better/bigger transformers and stuff? I'll be using it for super clean stuff, dirty crunchy stuff, and probably some more subby stuff too. So I guess the only criteria are it has to be good quality and loud enough to gig with. Price is negotiable, but I'm looking for something in a reasonable price bracket. The Aguilar DB728 is probably too much for me, for instance, while a second hand Mesa Strategy would be justifiable probably. Don't want to break the bank! I'll probably only ever be using it with one channel, so I'm not bothered about the capability to push out kW of power at 2 ohms or anything ;p I know about the Strategy, but not too much else. Anyone got any idea what else is available? Edited March 29, 2011 by Finbar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Matamp will make you one. Valve slaves come up on ebay. Could use a valve head and bypass the pre, less stylin though. And old valve PA would also sort you. You just missed out on my Strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finbar Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 Do fancy a Matamp one. Quite a lot actually. I just know I won't be able to afford it! I'll keep my ear to the ground Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 No preamp is a bunch less work and complication, so it might be a chunk cheaper than a full on bass amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umph Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1184049' date='Mar 31 2011, 10:49 PM']No preamp is a bunch less work and complication, so it might be a chunk cheaper than a full on bass amp.[/quote] Materials wise not having a preamp doesn't save much money you still need a phase splitter etc so you'll only be saving on one valve section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasted Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 I think Tayste_2000 has a Mesa Strategy for sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tayste_2000 Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Toasted' post='1184311' date='Apr 1 2011, 09:49 AM']I think Tayste_2000 has a Mesa Strategy for sale.[/quote] £600 with very new tubes Great condition. PM'd with details Edited April 1, 2011 by tayste_2000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tayste_2000 Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 [quote name='umph' post='1184137' date='Apr 1 2011, 12:16 AM']Materials wise not having a preamp doesn't save much money you still need a phase splitter etc so you'll only be saving on one valve section.[/quote] Yep had this discussion with Matamp, they still need to build something in there to feed into the power section so it still has a pre of sorts just not a full one. They said to me it would be easier to just add an input on the back that bypassed the eq and allowed for a slave in as it wouldn't require anymore R&D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finbar Posted April 1, 2011 Author Share Posted April 1, 2011 I'll have a think about the strategy and get back to you ste! Did matamp ever finish working on the GT200 standalone pre, out of interest? You seem to be in the know about these kinds of things ;p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tayste_2000 Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 I've seen it as a one off in a pedal with a wopping big power supply, didn't really seem to be very workable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Just a spanner in the spokes about old valve amps. I don't know about new Matamps but old valve amps, in my experience, do not have the frequency spread that we're used to with modern amps. When I used to use them for bass there was no real deep tone in there but what we'd now call low mid. It was only in the 80s when I tried Trace that I realised this deepness existed. Nowadays any good bass amp will give that output but years ago it was different (even tranny amps). I never afforded Ampeg/Musicman etc so these may be different. This might be to do with preamp voicing and/or better speakers rather than power amp response but just a thought. Its not to say valve amps don't sound great, how I'd love one, but I'd want to try it out first. The suggestion of a Matamp with a 'slave in' socket is a good one, if you didn't want to use your pre for any reason just plug into the Matamp pre as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umph Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 [quote name='4 Strings' post='1187491' date='Apr 4 2011, 10:32 AM']Just a spanner in the spokes about old valve amps. I don't know about new Matamps but old valve amps, in my experience, do not have the frequency spread that we're used to with modern amps. When I used to use them for bass there was no real deep tone in there but what we'd now call low mid. It was only in the 80s when I tried Trace that I realised this deepness existed. Nowadays any good bass amp will give that output but years ago it was different (even tranny amps). I never afforded Ampeg/Musicman etc so these may be different. This might be to do with preamp voicing and/or better speakers rather than power amp response but just a thought. Its not to say valve amps don't sound great, how I'd love one, but I'd want to try it out first. The suggestion of a Matamp with a 'slave in' socket is a good one, if you didn't want to use your pre for any reason just plug into the Matamp pre as usual.[/quote] Think it'll be more to do with the speakers or the amps you used not being that great. Most valve bass amps will cover all the usefull frequencys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Dub rigs were valve powered. Enough bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassnut62 Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 I think I saw someone selling a music man hd 130 head on here a day or two ago. It has SS preamp and valve power and extra deep switches. Could do the job for you.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 (edited) As far as stomp-style preamps, the DHA stuff, and of course the VT bass would be my first choice. I've used both with my tube slave with good results - and of course you get a nice DI signal too..... As far as tube power amps...... vintage may be the cheaper (and over-engineered) way to go. Edited April 4, 2011 by slave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 [quote name='umph' post='1187555' date='Apr 4 2011, 11:15 AM']Think it'll be more to do with the speakers or the amps you used not being that great. Most valve bass amps will cover all the usefull frequencys.[/quote] Hiwatt and Marshall. The Marshall went via the keyboard player who used it with a graphic heavily boosted to the left to get the bottom but neither were specific bass amps. Selling the Hiwatt was one of the worst decisions of my life, but that's another story. I certainly agree about the speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finbar Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 My Matamp (and every valve amp I've used/played) has a different sound to a modern hi-fi sounding amp, but it definitely has enough bottom. Way too much for me actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 [quote name='4 Strings' post='1188508' date='Apr 4 2011, 11:31 PM']Hiwatt and Marshall. The Marshall went via the keyboard player who used it with a graphic heavily boosted to the left to get the bottom but neither were specific bass amps. Selling the Hiwatt was one of the worst decisions of my life, but that's another story. I certainly agree about the speakers.[/quote] It isn't the speakers and amps individually, it is how they interact. There is all sorts of impedance fun between the output transformer and the cabinet in addition to the frequency responses of both. Marshalls tend towards lacking low due to the preamp design and lightweight transformers, heavily boosting the graphic might have not helped the desired result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 [quote name='4 Strings' post='1187491' date='Apr 4 2011, 10:32 AM']Just a spanner in the spokes about old valve amps. I don't know about new Matamps but old valve amps, in my experience, do not have the frequency spread that we're used to with modern amps.[/quote] I have a couple of Burmans that handle a 5 string without struggling. I suspect anything with a partridge transformer would be the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapscallion Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 How easy would a valve slave unit be to use with bass? Does it require a bass preamp aswell? Or can eq'ing come from pedals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Preamp pedal like a VT bass will do, or one of the various sansamps and variations on the theme. I have a Sound City Slave 120 to go. serviced by our own Subthumper. Kinda made obsolete by new arrival in the meantime. Needs a little more juice than instrument level, but a hot output on a pedal will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 (edited) We use a Hiwatt DR203 PA amp (6 i/ps..!);it will take just about any pedal or pre-amp, or straight in (active or passive...) with a 6-string fretless. It's clean (4xKT88...) until the roof caves in, and was designed to be used with 4 cabs (has to be tweaked to run a single cab; the designer thought no one cab could handle the o/p...). [attachment=92598:Hiwa_Camc.jpg] [attachment=92599:Tom_Warm_Up.jpg] ([i]That's not me,it's my son Tom;I'm the drummer[/i]...) If you want any significant crunch (even less, distortion...) you will need pedals. There is almost no way to get the valves to bend, without heavy masonry problems. A great deal of this is from the o/p trannie design (yes, Partridge knew how to match it all up in spades...). There is a 100w version, a bit cheaper, but does not have KT88's. The bass amp version (with a bass tone stack...), the DR201, is very much desired for that ultimate valve bass amp sound. Some were made after market by converting 200w Hiwatt slave amps; I would be wary of such a conversion, personally, but it has been done correctly now and again. There are modern equivalents, such as Mesa Boogie, or the Marshall 400, but for my money, the definitive valve bass amp is the Hiwatt. Just my tuppence worth. Edited November 5, 2011 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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