Rising costs of neodymium.

[JTUK]

You might be too late... I see one retail outlet has already jumped on this and put up prices even though they say the kit is in stock and not a new order...

Not naming names at this time....

[algmusic]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1195459' date='Apr 11 2011, 09:51 AM']You might be too late... I see one retail outlet has already jumped on this and put up prices even though they say the kit is in stock and not a new order...

Not naming names at this time....

[/quote]

I think one should name names

[voxpop]

[quote name='algmusic' post='1195474' date='Apr 11 2011, 10:08 AM']I think one should name names[/quote]


+1 let us have the name.

[JTUK]

I'll PM you both if you'd like.

[algmusic]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1195543' date='Apr 11 2011, 11:37 AM']I'll PM you both if you'd like.[/quote]

Please do

[Toasted]

Oh my god, conspiracy.

[Toasted]

[url="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-14009910"]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-14009910[/url]

Bumping this thread with new and encouraging info.

[alexclaber]

I think the very long term (i.e. decades) supply situation may be ok due to the sudden increase in prospecting etc. I don't expect the price of neodymium to ever go back to where it was as it's pretty nasty stuff to refine and one of the reasons (as I've only just discovered!) that the price came down in the first place (about a decade ago) was thanks to China ignoring environmental and health and safety issues when producing it. Now they're changing their stance and expecting other countries to deal with the challenges of rare earth metal mining and refining themselves - and in the meantime they're making lots of money by restricting exports whilst everyone else gets up to speed.

Re-opening the handful of existing rare earth facilities outside China will take a year or two and output will only cover 'essential' needs (i.e. military!) Opening new mines and refineries on land will take longer still. Developing new underwater mining techniques will be a huge technological challenge and will take many many years before they have significant production capacity.

Having discussed this matter with various large loudspeaker manufacturers the feeling is that with a bit of cunning you can do with ferrite what you can do with neodymium, just with extra weight. And the loudspeaker industry consumes less than 1% of all the world's neodymium production so even the biggest manufacturers are insignificant customers compared to those in the automobile, rail and energy industries, and the upsides of neodymium for their products are much more important (greater efficiency being the main one) than the upsides in loudspeaker products. Loudspeakers are thus pretty much bottom of the pecking order on both economical and practical grounds.

This is what we OEM Eminence customers received a few weeks ago: [url="http://www.acmebass.com/seriesiii/20110615NeoCustomerUpdate.pdf"]http://www.acmebass.com/seriesiii/20110615...tomerUpdate.pdf[/url]

As of last week I heard that new magnet orders are being taken as the quote has been revised but there has been no official announcement of this or of the revised annual quantity, and the prices are continuing to change constantly...

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='1292004' date='Jul 4 2011, 11:51 AM']Having discussed this matter with various large loudspeaker manufacturers the feeling is that with a bit of cunning you can do with ferrite what you can do with neodymium, just with extra weight.[/quote]

So why didn't they do that before? Was it uneconomic?

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1292657' date='Jul 4 2011, 08:15 PM']So why didn't they do that before? Was it uneconomic?[/quote]

Technological progress really. Hardly anyone's been doing R&D on ferrite magnet motors for the last 5-10 years, so the neodymium stuff is a generation or two ahead. But if neo is impractical due to cost/availability then the R&D focus will shift.

[Mr. Foxen]

Thing is they have to take the weight of a heavier lump dangling off the baffle, being dropped and stuff, so the weight has to come up some elsewhere.

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1292934' date='Jul 4 2011, 11:32 PM']Thing is they have to take the weight of a heavier lump dangling off the baffle, being dropped and stuff, so the weight has to come up some elsewhere.[/quote]

You are right.
However the conversion from neo cabs to ferrite shouldnt be as dramatic as you may first think.
Even ampegs PN series is only lighter by about 10-15 pounds than the SVT range. And a lot of the weight is in the box not the driver.

[Wolverinebass]

Does this thread mean that we'll soon be seeing adverts stating -

CASH FOR NEODYMIUM!!! Send your old, disused bass cabinets in our pre-provided envelope to:

PO Box 12345
Cash for neodymium
BA55 SFA

[Prime_BASS]

May just have to weigh in my big al for it's neo.

[ShergoldSnickers]

Some interesting comment [url="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/04/japan_discovers_rare_earths_under_pacific/"]here[/url] on attempting to make use of sea floor deposits.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Wolverinebass' post='1293202' date='Jul 5 2011, 11:29 AM']Does this thread mean that we'll soon be seeing adverts stating -

CASH FOR NEODYMIUM!!! Send your old, disused bass cabinets in our pre-provided envelope to:

PO Box 12345
Cash for neodymium
BA55 SFA[/quote]

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=144388"]Far ahead of you dude.[/url]

Catalytic converters are full of rare earths too, they were valuable as scrap anyway. And they are a legal requirement, which will cause some fun if the shortage continues.