Any advice on bass and kick thru PA?

[mrtcat]

Can anyone offer some advice on how you eq bass and kick drum at the mixer when doing this. I have previously boosted the lows and low mids lots on both usually with good results but last night was a bit off and I was struggling to get enough punch in the kick. Bass sounded good with lots of low end grunt but not sure If I'll need to give up some of that for the kick?

Any help welcomed.

[Lozz196]

When we used to put our kick drum through the pa, we generally cut the lows, upped mids slightly, and kept the highs flat. That way it was more of a "thwack" than a "boom" so kept everything tight and punchy. With the bass, we only did it it twice, and both times I DI`d post eq, so as to get the drive & compression I was using from the amp, but kept the eq on the pa completely flat - my eq on my amp is set virtually flat too. Very low down in the mix (as in very very low), as the bulk of the sound was coming from my amp, but just enough to add a more uniform spread of the bass. As the eq was flat, it still had presence, but I think had there been any exaggerated lows, the bass wouldn`t have stood out too well.

[ironside1966]

I try to stay away from the one size fits all approach and it depends on many factors including what sound you want.
The microphone position plays an important part.
A simple guide would be Bass boost around 60- 80hz
Low mid cut between 200hz and 400hz
High mid boost around 3k to 5K
Top boost 8K to 10K
Remember less is more

[deanovw]

I agree with ironside1966, every situation is different.

What size bass bins are you using?
How much power is driving them?
Are you using an active crossover?
What about mid range speakers and crossovers?

This may all have an effect of how the kick and bass eq affects the sound of the band.

[mrtcat]

[quote name='deanovw' post='1186630' date='Apr 3 2011, 12:01 PM']I agree with ironside1966, every situation is different.

What size bass bins are you using?
How much power is driving them?
Are you using an active crossover?
What about mid range speakers and crossovers?

This may all have an effect of how the kick and bass eq affects the sound of the band.[/quote]

Thanks chaps for the help so far. To answer the above:

Bass bins are Bill Fitzmaurice Tuba 30s
Power comes from a behringer EP2500 for subs so there's about 700watts per cab available but rarely need to turn up beyond about 30%
Using a behringer crossover and then subs have their own eq before the signal hits the amp.
PA tops are Bill Fitzmaurice DR280s powered by a behringer EP1500

As you can see it's a substantial pa system and sound quality is brilliant although the DR280s require lots of eq ing.

[Ian Savage]

A little trick if your desk has channels with low-cut switches is to engage them on the kick drum (sounds counter-intuitive, but stay with me) and then ramp up the bass control to suit - depending on your frequencies of the two controls, you end up with a 'peaking' response around 80-120Hz which is where the real 'meat' of a kick drum is without amplifying loads of real low-end which is often musically irrelevant and eats amplifier power. Tends to make kick drums punch you in the chest without getting flabby.

[mrtcat]

[quote name='Ian Savage' post='1187208' date='Apr 3 2011, 10:40 PM']A little trick if your desk has channels with low-cut switches is to engage them on the kick drum (sounds counter-intuitive, but stay with me) and then ramp up the bass control to suit - depending on your frequencies of the two controls, you end up with a 'peaking' response around 80-120Hz which is where the real 'meat' of a kick drum is without amplifying loads of real low-end which is often musically irrelevant and eats amplifier power. Tends to make kick drums punch you in the chest without getting flabby.[/quote]

Now that's the kind of advice I'm looking for! Desk has low cut filter and 4 band eq for every channel so gonna give that a whirl as it makes sense. The subs have good sensitivity so we do end up with a lot of really low end and it's the kick in the chest type punch we're after.

Many thanks for the advice.

[ironside1966]

It is always good practice to cut everything below 35 Hz to 40 Hz with the graphic on big rig or even higher if the rig is only a couple KW’s, depends what you speakers/Room can handle. Using a high pass filter on the other instruments can also help clean up the bottom end. On a smaller rig boost the bass a little higher.
If you HPF all the other instruments then try using a little help from the graphic as it more accurate then shelving EQ
Do you really want trousers to flap? It is easier and better to get a good clean sound then it is to get the chest kicking punch. I have heard far too many bands with a loud punchy kick and snare and bugger all else.

Edited April 4, 2011 by ironside1966