SELLING ON BC

[bassaussie]

[quote name='wombatboter' post='1191416' date='Apr 7 2011, 09:05 AM']But isn't there a contradiction in saying that some members are bumping their prices up while meanwhile one is complaining that nothing sells around here ?[/quote]

Contradiction as in you don't believe me, or contradiction in that it doesn't make sense to do it?

If you don't believe me, I can point to the specific items, although I won't do it publicly. I'll also provide links to the reduced priced items on the other site.

If the contradiction is about why a person would do it - who knows!!!!! Maybe they think that they can't get top price in their own country, but the UK buyers have more money (perception, not necessarily the truth), so they'll chance a higher price with them.

[Donnyboy]

[quote name='wombatboter' post='1191416' date='Apr 7 2011, 09:05 AM']But isn't there a contradiction in saying that some members are bumping their prices up while meanwhile one is complaining that nothing sells around here ?[/quote]

Maybe so - but I'm sure it's also the case that an item will be advertised/sold on BC at a lower price than elsewhere. I've done it myself - maybe not made a penny ( quite the opposite!)- but I'd rather not make a penny with someone on BC! I've always enjoyed the experience and the sharing of information.

As an aside I've bought & sold stuff on Gumtree, and on quite a few occassions discovered that I've been dealing with BC'ers.Again enjoyable.

[Gust0o]

Maybe contradiction is the wrong term - perhaps irony would have worked... but I think we're talking in general statements.

[bassaussie]

[quote name='Gust0o' post='1191431' date='Apr 7 2011, 09:26 AM']Maybe contradiction is the wrong term - perhaps irony would have worked... but I think we're talking in general statements.[/quote]

Irony is indeed the word. Stupid is another one!!! I think there's a perception outside the UK that all UKers are rich. People simply look at the wages earned there, and assume you're all raking it in. What they don't take into account is the incredibly high cost of living in the UK, meaning that those higher wages are soon spent simply living day to day.

[BigRedX]

I don't get what the big obsession is with getting items listed at a realistic selling price.

It's the seller's instrument. They can list it at whatever price they feel like.

If it is priced too high it won't sell.

Maybe if you were 100% committed to buying the item at a lower price, but then maybe you'd be better off negotiating with the seller by PM.

[wombatboter]

[quote name='bassaussie' post='1191428' date='Apr 7 2011, 09:24 AM']Contradiction as in you don't believe me, or contradiction in that it doesn't make sense to do it?

If the contradiction is about why a person would do it - who knows!!!!! Maybe they think that they can't get top price in their own country, but the UK buyers have more money (perception, not necessarily the truth), so they'll chance a higher price with them.[/quote]

That was the thing I meant...not that I don't believe you.
My own experience is that when I sell certain basses in my own country (Belgium) the market is a lot smaller. I get the impression that they're not interested in high-end boutique basses around here in my country and are more Fender-Ampeg based.
When I put something for sale around here I know I'm gonna reach a European "audience" which I don't find in my own country. But the prices I put up around here are the same than those on other sites (which I rarely use since they seem to be less effective).
I don't think that the British are "rich".. Like I said : I can reach a bigger bass-community around here.

[tauzero]

[quote name='bassaussie' post='1191353' date='Apr 7 2011, 07:31 AM']I'll take that one step further. When a seller is selling something on this site at a certain price, but has it advertised elsewhere cheaper (sometimes considerably so). This happens more with non-UK based sellers, as they advertise it locally for a certain price, then decide to go to a UK site and for some reason think it's OK to bump up the price. There's actually an example of this happening right now, and I've seen it a number of times in the past. I'm always tempted to comment on the thread, but then, there's this rule in the For Sale not to do that., and to be honest, I don't feel like getting into an argument with all the do-gooders defending the seller saying "oh, he has the right to sell at whatever price he likes".[/quote]
But couldn't you simply ask on the thread "Is this the same bass as is advertised here?" and put in a link? You're not commenting on the price, just asking for some factual information, and after all there are scams where information and pictures are gleaned from one advert and used to sell an entirely fictitious instrument.

[Gust0o]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1191485' date='Apr 7 2011, 10:30 AM']I don't get what the big obsession is with getting items listed at a realistic selling price.

It's the seller's instrument. They can list it at whatever price they feel like.

If it is priced too high it won't sell.

Maybe if you were 100% committed to buying the item at a lower price, but then maybe you'd be better off negotiating with the seller by PM.[/quote]

Red, it's because some people still believe the law of dimishing returns [i]must[/i] apply - so it has to be a realistic price; all else is profiteering or stupidity.

I'm not sure it's something I massively agree with.

[andy67]

[quote name='Gust0o' post='1191636' date='Apr 7 2011, 12:42 PM']Red, it's because some people still believe the law of dimishing returns [i]must[/i] apply - so it has to be a realistic price; all else is profiteering or stupidity.

I'm not sure it's something I massively agree with.[/quote]


I think the sort of 'silliness' comes about due to the secondhand price being not too far off new and when courier charges are added... why buy used when a few quid extra will get you new?

Although this thread is moving in a different direction from the Op's topic, It is great because so many different points can be raised under the one heading. Yes I agree a little reality is required with some sellers re price but I think some of the younger members don't know quite how to price their equipment considering they may have only owned it for a short time from new and have not been in the way of things or not quite gained enough experience yet.

Maybe that is what's required - a used price guide! eBay is definitely not to be referenced because listings on that marketplace are so mad at the moment and it is difficult to get a reasonable bargain or a ball park idea of what equipment is worth. Usually I look to sell at around 50% of market price - dependent on item of course - on mass manufactured gear: amps, cabs etc. And, I will only buy with the same methodology in mind. Most around here employ a similar methodology anyway.

andy

Edited April 7, 2011 by andy67

[ThomBassmonkey]

People should be able to list basses at whatever price they want. As Red said, if the price is too high, they won't sell.

I disagree that "a bass is worth however much someone is willing to buy it for". If someone tries to sell a Stingray on here and no one's prepared to pay over £5 for it, but there's someone that's got a wanted ad up on Talkbass and they're prepared to pay £2,000 but the seller never hears about the buyer, does that mean the bass is only worth £5? There's always someone prepared to pay a good price for an instrument, it's finding them that's the problem.

It only takes one person that's prepared to pay asking price and the bass is sold, whatever that asking price is. There's been a seller on here that's been trying to sell his bass for about £150 more than they sell for new, I'd say that was (very) overpriced, but it's what he wants for it so he has every right to ask for it. If the bass is worth that to him, whatever anyone else thinks, that's it's value because someone would rather own the bass than the amount of money it would sell for.

[skankdelvar]

Everybody has the right to assign whatever price they like to their cherished inst. In the same way, everyone else has the right to shake one's head and move on. Deals succeed if both parties open with realistic offers and negotiate in small increments, providing reasonable justifications for their position. Overcooked opening prices and lowball offers are the mark of the tyro.

Am I annoyed or offended by the chummy who's semi-spamming his bass around the forum at a price higher than new? Not at all. Though possibly unkind, it's fun to watch someone piss on their own chips.

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='1191766' date='Apr 7 2011, 02:32 PM']Am I annoyed or offended by the chummy who's semi-spamming his bass around the forum at a price higher than new? Not at all. Though possibly unkind, it's fun to watch someone piss on their own chips.[/quote]

I wouldn't feel too bad about it, I'd have been interested if it was a realistic price so I IMd him about it and it turns out he wants a slightly different model so he's trying to sell on his bass for more than it costs so he can replace it with a new version. He's well aware that he's asking well over the new price but it's up to him. It's not the first person we've seen on here that is asking WAY over the normal asking price of an item and assuming that because they're asking for help, someone will feel morally obliged to basically give them hundreds of pounds over what they usually sell for. I doubt it'll be the last either.

[dougie]

[quote name='markstuk' post='1189113' date='Apr 5 2011, 03:21 PM']+111111

It's only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.. If it's worth more than that to you, keep it..[/quote]
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n3LL338aGA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n3LL338aGA[/url]
Even in this day and age,we could still learn from the romans........

[Johngh]

[quote name='markstuk' post='1191357' date='Apr 7 2011, 07:34 AM']So a suggestion to the mods might well be that as a matter of policy that an item can't be advertised somewhere else for less money?

Cheers


Mark[/quote]


Understand what you are saying, but how do you expect the Mods to police it. There has got to be a degree of goodwill on the seller to advertise at a fair price.

To be fair, with the amount of stuff that sells on here the mods don't get asked to help out with that many deals that have problems that often. Were happy to help out if we can, but I think a seller can ask for what he want's for an item wherever he want's. If folk think it's too expensive they can always haggle via PM, or look elsewhere.

[dlloyd]

[quote name='tauzero' post='1191633' date='Apr 7 2011, 12:40 PM']But couldn't you simply ask on the thread "Is this the same bass as is advertised here?" and put in a link? You're not commenting on the price, just asking for some factual information, and after all there are scams where information and pictures are gleaned from one advert and used to sell an entirely fictitious instrument.[/quote]

I had something like that happen to me. I was selling an OLP baritone and someone posted a link asking if it was the same model as one advertised elsewhere for a cheaper price. It wasn't, it was a higher spec'd version, but the damage was done and a couple of offers were withdrawn.

[mcnach]

[quote name='bassaussie' post='1191369' date='Apr 7 2011, 07:59 AM']I do think the people on the forum are quite well informed, and I also think there's a great sense of community on this forum. But like any forum, there's people who turn up with one intention only, to advertise for free. The admin of this forum are very accomodating about this issue, and I personally think it's to the detriment of the forum.

The way sellers get around this issue is that the item(s) are usually being sold on a local site in a different language. I'm sure everyone on here checks Gumtree, Ebay UK etc, but for example, I live in Portugal - does anyone on here ever look at www.olx.pt ? Or www.forumusica.com ? Of course not, it wouldn't make sense to. And that's what the sellers I'm talking about rely on - they know that as English speakers and UK residents, it's very unlikely that you'll be checking a Portuguese website or a French website or a Polish website.

Like I said, I can't be bothered getting into an argument with people about this, but it does annoy the cr*p out of me as it seems to go against the spirit of the forum. Seriously, they're being given the opportunity to advertise for free to a large group of people who are the exact target group they need, so the obvious thing for them to do is to bump the price up!!!! [/quote]


and what does it matter?

at the end of the day, I only buy if I'm happy with the price, not because I did my research and got the absolute lowest price.

people who just ose the forum to sale are obvious in the end, and less likely to be successful than people who contribute regularly etc. I say "let them be".

[northstreet]

So who gets to decide the 'right' price (note, not value, that's a very different discussion) of an item: the seller, the buyer, or the aggregated opinion of all the members of this forum?

[dougie]

[quote name='northstreet' post='1192349' date='Apr 7 2011, 10:08 PM']So who gets to decide the 'right' price (note, not value, that's a very different discussion) of an item: the seller, the buyer, or the aggregated opinion of all the members of this forum?[/quote]
IMO,if i ask £1k for a pair of my skidmarked y fronts thats my prerogative,wether anyone wants to pay that amount is theirs....isnt that the way selling/buying has always worked?,last thing i`d imagine is any mods/admins wanting to even get involved in anyones debates regarding cash sales.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='northstreet' post='1192349' date='Apr 7 2011, 10:08 PM']So who gets to decide the 'right' price ([b]note, not value, that's a very different discussion[/b]) of an item: the seller, the buyer, or the aggregated opinion of all the members of this forum?[/quote]
But is it? I think what we are discussing here is the disparity between the two.

The price is the thing that most of us agree is up to the seller to set - delusional or otherwise it is their right. The value is the figure that the majority (hopefully including the seller if they have their feet firmly planted on terra firma) has in their head.
The current market value is achieved only once a precedence has been set. Remember when Stingrays were changing hands for as little as £550 that was the then market value now it's back up to £800 for the exact same basses - no one's getting robbed because the increase was gradual, many basses have been sold and a precedence has been set.

This tired old rhetoric that an item is "worth" what someone is prepared to pay for it has changed over time from a twee bit of zen to an authoritative excuse to get playful with the figures and reel in the less knowledgeable (notice how it only gets used when the price is [b]above[/b] the perceived market value).

Of course maybe the person setting the price is less knowledgeable themselves or simply unaware of the current market value too. Which is why [b]as a community[/b] I feel we have a duty to protect each other from this "error"...... but that's against the rules now. (though I understand why)

But I'm not even sure how much of a community we have going in the FS section anymore, especially when you see the amount of spin people are willing to include in their ads.

One example pointed out to me today was a bass being sold that has been damaged, but in the listing the seller had spoken to "someone" who had said that it could be repaired for the poultry sum of "x amount" while this makes the ad look inviting and I'm sure you could pay someone "x amount" to do the work, what kind of a repair will you get for that? A sh*t one not in keeping with the rest of the bass.
It would be much more community minded if the seller just got it repaired themselves then came back and sold it... or (and here's the rub) tell the truth up front and admit that it would cost a fair bit more to repair it properly or not even mention it in the first place.

Also I've noticed sneaking into ads is the concept of the "excellent condition player's bass". [i]"In excellent condition... except for a few dings which don't affect the playability"[/i] or [i]"In excellent condition... but showing showing the usual signs of wear for a bass of this age". [/i]
It's either in excellent condition (mint) or it's fooking not. Either way someone will be happy to have it.... but only if it is advertised honestly for it's suitable market.

[Rich]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1192507' date='Apr 8 2011, 04:30 AM']Remember when Stingrays were changing hands for as little as £550[/quote]
I remember seeing one advertised for £250. And I still didn't buy it.

I take your point on the question of the "excellent condition, but has a few dings" thing. I think in those cases, the 'excellent condition' would refer to all the stuff that makes a bass playable and good-sounding -- the neck, the action, pups, preamp, etc etc. I would describe my Wal as being in excellent condition, but she's a 30 year old bass and has all the normal stuff you'd expect a 30 year old bass to have... a bit of lacquer crazing on the body, tiny bit of buckle rash, couple of minor dings, that sort of stuff. Everything else is wonderful though. So how [i]should[/i] I describe it, if not 'excellent'?
Speaking of my Wal -- in 1986 I bought it for £330, haggled down from 350, and it was hanging on the shop's wall for a good fortnight before I even decided to try it.
[i]330 quid for a Wal.[/i] Market value again.

[Muzz]

I'd incline to the position that as this place is set up differently (as a 'community') from EBay, then the usual 'caveat emptor', 'it's worth what it's worth to the seller' type of stuff, while obviously being the sensible fallback position, really doesn't sit too well - there are new people on here all the time, drawn by the friendly, informative, helpful and knowledgeable (not to mention the entertainingly opinionated) types, so the odd (and it really is the odd) stinger of an asking price benefits from the camouflage of the false sense of security which the site can promote. A lot of people on here are well up on current 'market prices', but that isn't everyone, and it'd be a shame to think someone on here might still get ripped off. A good example is with the (very, very occasional) blatant non-delivery/inaccurate description/faulty goods issues, which on here become a ten-page thread of outrage, and in some cases get to involve several people co-operating ot help the 'victim' - you wouldn't see (or indeed expect) that on Ebay, so I'd suggest the rules here are, and I'd hope wanted to be, different.

Oh, and Rich, if I was you, I'd leave out the 'excellent' in describing your Wal and go with 'she's a 30 year old bass and has all the normal stuff you'd expect a 30 year old bass to have... a bit of lacquer crazing on the body, tiny bit of buckle rash, couple of minor dings, that sort of stuff.' You're not paying by the word, you know...

[dlloyd]

A couple of scenarios come to mind regarding outing "overpriced" instruments. Let's take Stingrays, which apparently have a market value of £800 now.

Say I see one in translucent white listed at £900... I listed mine for £750 and ended up selling for £600 a few years ago. I've seen loads of them go for less... okay I haven't been looking at the for sale section for a while so don't really know what they've been going for recently but, I'm going to state my opinion because, damnit, justice must prevail... to a newbie, I might look like I know something they don't...

Maybe I do know something they don't and know that trans white is pretty rare and is certainly worth £100 on top of market value... but maybe I want it a bit cheaper and have no scruples... maybe if I sow an element of doubt in prospective buyers' minds, the buyer might be forced to sell for less... hey, I could even put a fake listing of a similar looking bass for £700 on Craigs List and mention it in the thread...

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Muzz' post='1192548' date='Apr 8 2011, 08:11 AM']I'd incline to the position that as this place is set up differently (as a 'community') from EBay, then the usual 'caveat emptor', 'it's worth what it's worth to the seller' type of stuff, while obviously being the sensible fallback position, really doesn't sit too well - there are new people on here all the time, drawn by the friendly, informative, helpful and knowledgeable (not to mention the entertainingly opinionated) types, so the odd (and it really is the odd) stinger of an asking price benefits from the camouflage of the false sense of security which the site can promote. A lot of people on here are well up on current 'market prices', but that isn't everyone, and it'd be a shame to think someone on here might still get ripped off. A good example is with the (very, very occasional) blatant non-delivery/inaccurate description/faulty goods issues, which on here become a ten-page thread of outrage, and in some cases get to involve several people co-operating ot help the 'victim' - you wouldn't see (or indeed expect) that on Ebay, so I'd suggest the rules here are, and I'd hope wanted to be, different.

Oh, and Rich, if I was you, I'd leave out the 'excellent' in describing your Wal and go with 'she's a 30 year old bass and has all the normal stuff you'd expect a 30 year old bass to have... a bit of lacquer crazing on the body, tiny bit of buckle rash, couple of minor dings, that sort of stuff.' You're not paying by the word, you know... [/quote]
Yep this is what I'm on about. +1

Also to Rich : how is it fair or even accurate to describe (to stick with your example) a "lived in" 30 year old bass as being in excellent condition when compared to a bass that's been in someone's uncle's attic for the last 30 years it clearly isn't.
To me it just comes across as Del Boy spin and subsequently gets filed in the "to be avoided" bin. Why not just stick to the facts and describe stuff as you'd like it described to you if you were the buyer. I mean you could say things like "surprisingly good for it's age" (which while subjective, avoids a definitive such as "excellent") and go on to list any points which may be of concern and everyone gets an accurate picture if the bass and you come across as a good guy.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='1192595' date='Apr 8 2011, 09:11 AM']A couple of scenarios come to mind regarding outing "overpriced" instruments. Let's take Stingrays, which apparently have a market value of £800 now.

Say I see one in translucent white listed at £900... I listed mine for £750 and ended up selling for £600 a few years ago. I've seen loads of them go for less... okay I haven't been looking at the for sale section for a while so don't really know what they've been going for recently but, I'm going to state my opinion because, damnit, justice must prevail... to a newbie, I might look like I know something they don't...

Maybe I do know something they don't and know that trans white is pretty rare and is certainly worth £100 on top of market value... but maybe I want it a bit cheaper and have no scruples... maybe if I sow an element of doubt in prospective buyers' minds, the buyer might be forced to sell for less... hey, I could even put a fake listing of a similar looking bass for £700 on Craigs List and mention it in the thread...[/quote]
(I knew I should have said [b]up to[/b] £800 )

If things were different (like back when we were able to self police on this matter without going over the top) and you did chip in and say your bit (or initiate a Craigs List scam), then by the same token someone with a differing opinion would have the right to chip in their 2p too and your noob would have multiple sides of the argument to make an informed decision with. Forcing it to PM doesn't help as you would be able to pull the same sh*t only it will go unchallenged.

The "new button it rule" while it keeping a civil air in the FS section and creating less of work for the mods will ultimately result in us seeing less and less "Basschat prices" instead as openly discussing prices in the FS section dissipates, all prices will graduate to eBay prices as that will be the main point of reference.... and we'll have only ourselves to blame.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='dougie' post='1192465' date='Apr 8 2011, 12:42 AM']IMO,if i ask £1k for a pair of my skidmarked y fronts thats my prerogative,wether anyone wants to pay that amount is theirs....isnt that the way selling/buying has always worked?,last thing i`d imagine is any mods/admins wanting to even get involved in anyones debates regarding cash sales.[/quote]

Exactly. The mods/admins would be on a hiding to nothing. There might even be legal ramifications if they were 'influencing' prices. Besides, how could anyone, except the potential buyer, put a value on a year-of-birth instrument? Caveat Emptor - t'was always thus and t'will ever be.

As for the skidmarked-fronts that Dougie is so generously offering for a mere £1000, they could be a sound investment if he turns out to be the next Jaco.