Recording a CD to get gigs

[awdl22125]

So my band have just recorded a three track cd of covers with the intention of distributing it to pub/club owners to try and get more gigs. Have any of you guys any experience of this?, is it effective?. Also, where do we stand legally by recording covers re. the PRS?

[crez5150]

[quote name='awdl22125' post='1191131' date='Apr 6 2011, 09:53 PM']So my band have just recorded a three track cd of covers with the intention of distributing it to pub/club owners to try and get more gigs. Have any of you guys any experience of this?, is it effective?. Also, where do we stand legally by recording covers re. the PRS?[/quote]


I'd say fairly illegal unless they are out of publishing or you have the PRS rights

[flyfisher]

Probably illegal but, in practice, where's the harm?

My understanding is that UK law does not allow for punitive damages, unlike US law, so (I believe) you can only be sued for actual damages (though happy to be corrected on this by a real lawyer!).

So, a song is covered in a recording studio (hardly a commercial 'performance' where money exchanges hands for the privilege of hearing the song), and the CD is played to a few dozen venue owners (again, not a commercial performance). I can't see how the original artist has been disadvantaged by this whole process, so what would be the point in suing?

On the other hand, if the promotion is successful and the band get loads of gigs then they'll attract paying audiences and money will flow, via the PRS, to the original artist. So, again, what would be thge point in suing?

[Sawtooth]

I'm not sure of the legality of this, but I can tell you from my past experience as a live-in assistant manager of a busy live music pub in London, that this was how business was done.
Bands / singers used to drop off live/studio demo cd's regularly, you give them a listen and if you like them, they get an audition - simple.

[Cat Burrito]

My understanding was you can record CDs of covers to get gigs so long as you don't sell it at gigs to make money

[SteveK]

[quote name='BurritoBass' post='1191197' date='Apr 6 2011, 10:40 PM']My understanding was you can record CDs of covers to get gigs so long as you don't sell it at gigs to make money[/quote]
Can't see the problem...providing the appropriate payments are made.

[Wylie]

[quote name='BurritoBass' post='1191197' date='Apr 6 2011, 05:40 PM']My understanding was you can record CDs of covers to get gigs so long as you don't sell it at gigs to make money[/quote]

I agree with this. My trio recorded a CD, and we hand it out to whoever will take it, but we paid for the rights of the non-traditional tunes we recorded, and we do try and flog the CD whenever we play.

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='BurritoBass' post='1191197' date='Apr 6 2011, 10:40 PM']My understanding was you can record CDs of covers to get gigs so long as you don't sell it at gigs to make money[/quote]

I think this is right. From what I remember from college, as long as you're not making money from the CDs/recordings directly, then you're fine.

[Mr Bassman]

I organise about 150 jazz / blues / function gigs a year and regularly receive c.d.'s from singers / bands wanting gigs.

I can't think of one I'd want to listen to from start to finish.

Anyone can make a c.d. nowadays, few have what it takes to perform live.

I dread to think how many times other disappointed promoters have told me "but their c.d. sounded o.k.!"

I've been stitched up in the past with glossy promo packages and learned my lesson, I'm only interested in real performers who can connect with the audience.

My advice is get some gigs and experience, don't waste your time (and other peoples) or money recording covers that you cannot perform live.

If you haven't got a gig, well go out and get one, book your village hall or squash club and invite all your friends and family.

If you're any good you'll get spin-off gigs, if you're sh*te, well don't give up your day job (just yet) but don't give up hope!

If you've got something original, well that's a different matter! Go for it!

Edited April 7, 2011 by Mr Bassman

[Mr. Foxen]

If you are getting the CDs made, can't reccomend [url="http://www.hificopies.com/"]these guys[/url] enough.

[Blademan_98]

I did that for a band I used to do the sound for.

They used it to get their first gig then word of mouth did the rest

If you only do the local pub circuit, it is quite expensive and not that effective.

If you want to play larger venues (clubs etc) around the country then it is a must!

[bobbytodd]

years ago we did a live cd to pass around local pubs and it got us our first few gigs then word of mouth takes over

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='bobbytodd' post='1191339' date='Apr 7 2011, 06:52 AM']years ago we did a live cd to pass around local pubs and it got us our first few gigs then word of mouth takes over[/quote]
This!

My son's band wanted a demo CD, all their own material tho'. At one gig I slipped the sound guy a few beers to record it. Made an easy cover up, had 500 CDs made, & they had gigs queuing up in no time.

Make it a live CD & the potential land-lords will hear how good you are ........... or not.

[CyberBass]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1191326' date='Apr 7 2011, 03:03 AM']If you are getting the CDs made, can't reccomend [url="http://www.hificopies.com/"]these guys[/url] enough.[/quote]
I 2nd that, Matt from HIFI Copies a great guy to deal with :-)

[JTUK]

The legalities aside.... venues might ask for a demo but whether they listen to it is another thing.
It might just be an excuse to not go through a booking process at that time.

IME, you can either be in demand or well known enough and this will trump any type of audition type process, or you can go in with a cheaper deal
or any manner of things. It boils down to this, IMO..why does that venue need to book YOUR band as opposed to the many many others?

You may find decent venues inundated with hundreds of bands and a website and CD are expenses that can be a waste of time.
If a venue is hard to get into..I'll do a personal meet and see how we get on face to face but the fact remains that most places are oversubscribed massivley and you have to hard sell to a degree to get past that.

I'd be interested to know who thinks their websites are worth the money. Ours isn't expensive for a dedicated non-myspace website but is still a cost
For gigs, we do a mixture or personal contacts, cold calls backed up by CD/website with a pop-up media player, but if I am chatting to a manager, I make sure I have everything I need at that time to accept a date on the spot..as soon as you walk away from the meet, you tend to lose momentum.

You could always just be full of it..and tell them you'll blow away their best band...but you have to be good on your word...and the best band, musically isn't necessarily the best draw..and the manager will love the best draw the most.

[JTUK]

Another point..if you have a CD..make it live..what is the point of a studio CD when you are selling a live-act..?
and agents tend to only earn their money for the better paid gigs...don't bother in pubs, IME.

[spongebob]

When my recently-split band made our covers CD last year, it didn't do us any good at all.

Partially due to the lackluster approach of the other members in promotion, and also because pubs (our market) never seemed to actually listen to it.

Countless phone calls with the words - 'send us a demo', and in the following weeks 'haven't had a chance to hear it'....and the almost classic 'never received it'!

One place gave us a gig because he liked the sound of us - without even hearing the disc!

It's a great fun thing to do, and a nice memento of a band, but I've seen guys getting more gigs through contacts and word of mouth than most manage from a CD.

[AttitudeCastle]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1191302' date='Apr 7 2011, 12:40 AM']I think this is right. From what I remember from college, as long as you're not making money from the CDs/recordings directly, then you're fine.[/quote]

Yep!

The orchestra i'm in does this and sends it to booking agencies and venues when we pull tours together! and have done fore years

[Guest]

[quote name='Sawtooth' post='1191191' date='Apr 6 2011, 10:34 PM']I'm not sure of the legality of this, but I can tell you from my past experience as a live-in assistant manager of a busy live music pub in London, that this was how business was done.
Bands / singers used to drop off live/studio demo cd's regularly, you give them a listen and if you like them, they get an audition - simple.[/quote]

You used to audition bands after hearing a CD? Weird! Playing an audition to get a gig, haha.

[bigjohn]

Only point in creating a CD is that when people say "have you got a CD" you can say "Yes - I'll send you one", rather than "No", at which point the conversation stalls with "When you've got one, send it to me.".

You're then stuck with either "Ok, bye" or "but the boys on Basschat said we wouldn't need one...".


Not that anyone will actually listen to it, or sometimes even admit to having received it. But it's one less excuse for them not to book you.

And recording stuff is fun and often will make you a better band. Esp when doing originals, I find they really only come into their own when the songs have been recorded and we all either change parts or stick with what it is. Before then things are subject to more changes.

So yeah, it's a good idea, and something we do / I've always done in bands. But it's just one thing, it's not like you can make a CD then sit back smoking cigars waiting for the phone to ring.

Edited April 8, 2011 by bigjohn

[JTUK]

[quote name='thedontcarebear' post='1192945' date='Apr 8 2011, 03:11 PM']You used to audition bands after hearing a CD? Weird! Playing an audition to get a gig, haha.[/quote]


I talked to a pub about gigs, told him we were looking to play in the area and he said he holds audition nights on a thursday which we could play and he would give us a few quid or beers for doing so. If we passed that, he might offer us gigs..
After I stopped laughing, I told him a few things and we ended up with 4 gigs for the year.

You have to think that they get many many enquiries so you just have to deliver your sell in a way that makes them realise you are worth booking.

But it is their business so humour them as well....
There is cocky, arrogant and confident. Make sure you are the right sort of confident, but as I said, if you go for the big sell and greatest thing since sliced bread, you are going to look pretty stupid if you can't deliver.

[Sawtooth]

[quote name='thedontcarebear' post='1192945' date='Apr 8 2011, 03:11 PM']You used to audition bands after hearing a CD? Weird! Playing an audition to get a gig, haha.[/quote]

Sorry, that wasn't clear, it's what the manager used to call them.
An "audition" meant a one-off (paid) gig early week, if popular/any good, then maybe booked for a Fri/Sat night.
We used to get some acts through agents/managers/word of mouth, but a lot of Cd's were dropped in and got a listen out of interest (and boredom on a quiet day!)
-you don't get out to see much other live music when working fulltime in a pub.
Be warned that most don't make it to the end of the first track though, so make sure you edit your best performance first.

Edited April 8, 2011 by Sawtooth

[Norm]

[quote name='Sawtooth' post='1193221' date='Apr 8 2011, 07:50 PM']Be warned that most don't make it to the end of the first track though, so make sure you edit your best performance first. [/quote]

Edit is a good point, our covers gig getting cd was an edit of 6 twenty second snippets of a variety of songs.
Always backed up with a personal meet with landlord/booker & seemed to work best in that combination.
Cheers,
Norm.