jackruston Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Hi Everyone 1st post. Thanks for having me. I'm a producer/engineer, and having just bought an SVT II from basschat ads, I'm looking for a cab solely for studio use. It will always be mic'd close, and therefore things which might be important in a live situation become much less so for us. I really like the sound of Ampeg 810's for tracking, but they're obviously big and expensive. While we're often working in the same place for long periods of time, we do move from studio to studio and it's already a pain taking various amps, guitars, drums, and racks of outboard around all over the place. So what I was hoping was that there would be a smaller, lighter option out there. The Ampeg 410 is an obvious choice, but in practice it's not that nice to record. I think the addition of ports and tweeters and all these things designed to make the smaller cabs more full range and hifi causes some phase shift which makes our life difficult. I believe that one reason the 810 sounds the way it does is because it is an infinite baffle design. I've had a good look around and I don't seem to be able to find anything which quite makes sense. All the smaller cabs seem to be ported and tweetered etc and obviously I need something that's 4ohm and capable of handling the SVT. I just wondered if this issue would resonate with anyone here, and if so what you suggest that I do. Clearly I could just pick up a used 810 and live with it, but I'm hoping there might be a more convenient solution. Maybe a 2x10 in a closed box, while too restricted for live use, could record really well. But then perhaps the sheer size of the 810 is what's really making that thing work properly. Any ideas gratefully received. Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 The 8x10 is in 4 sections. You just need to make one of those sections and mic it, should be the same. You can find out the dimensions, and use Eminence B810 of Jensen MOD10 for a fairly good approximation. The woodwork part is pretty easy, any cabinetmaker/carpenter can sort it, round holes is the hardest part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackruston Posted April 7, 2011 Author Share Posted April 7, 2011 Ah ok, thanks. With the B810 would I not have a problem arriving at 4 ohms...They're 32 each. I'd need four wouldn't I? Would their 110 or whatever it is be better? Thanks Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Ah, yeah, like the orignal SVT driver they are 32 hm each, so if one blows it doesn't take out the rest and affects the impedance a minimal amount. Jensen MOD10 then. Does the SVT only do 2 or 4 ohm? The B810 is made to be very much like the original SVT drivers with modern power handling, the MOD10 is also similar (and doesn't handle as much power as like the original it is a guitar driver). Other 10s probably won't be so close to the original drivers, I think the Beta 10 from memory is sort of suitable, but isn't the classic sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joegarcia Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 SVT's only do 2 or 4 ohm yea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Hi Jack, I think Mr Foxen is right, if you want that exact sound then a 1x10 or 2x10 will give you the sound with portability and a sealed cab is the easiest build anyway so long as the box is airtight. I wouldn't worry too much about the impedance unless you are using a valve amp. The few dB you lose shouldn't be a problem in a recording situation. Sealed cabs typically have better controlled bass with better transient response. The cost is a higher cut off point with a longer slower roll off in output below that along with lower maximum output. When you are recording you can use eq to lift the bottom end and this works well with the 12dB/octave roll off of these cabs. You also don't really want a lot of high power fundamental in a small room. The 'problem' with multiple drivers is that the sound travels different path lengths to get to a particular point. This means that for frequencies where the speakers are spaced roughly a wavelength apart or more the sound from adjacent speakers might be arriving out of phase and cancelling or in phase and reinforcing each other. They get very directional at high frequencies and a lot of highs get lost. this gives them their 'vintage' sound. If you are mic'ing closer than the diameter of the speaker then you are effectively mic'ing the speaker and not the cab. You need to find out if it is the cab sound or the specific Jensen driver that you like the sound of. I've got a little digital recorder that I use fior recording gigs/practice. I'd take it out with my normal recording mic and go round the shops recording samples on the cabs they have on offer to see what sounds i could get, then I'd have a better idea of how critical a particular driver is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robocorpse Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 +1 on sealed 2x10. Obviously record a straight DI signal as well so you can fart around with it with plugins etc if you need more depth, or split the frequencies to add subtle effects to the top end, then mix to your hearts content. But I guess you know that already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackruston Posted April 8, 2011 Author Share Posted April 8, 2011 Thanks very much guys. The problem I have with a 210 is to arrive at the right impedance (2 or 4) while also providing enough capacity for the SVT in terms of power. I can't use two mod10's because that'll total 150w. Eminence do a 200w 10 inch driver at 8 ohms. I guess the cab should be of a similar depth to the 810. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Get a Berg NV610 or NV412 - yes its big, but its actually much smaller than an 810, and an easier move. Sounds better too, all your bassists will see the word Bergantino and drool... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 [quote name='jackruston' post='1192798' date='Apr 8 2011, 12:41 PM']Thanks very much guys. The problem I have with a 210 is to arrive at the right impedance (2 or 4) while also providing enough capacity for the SVT in terms of power. I can't use two mod10's because that'll total 150w. Eminence do a 200w 10 inch driver at 8 ohms. I guess the cab should be of a similar depth to the 810. J[/quote] The distance front to back of the cone in the SVT is important to tone, if affects the midrange, you basically want to clone the inside of one of the sections, 'upgrades' like stuffing and better size are better engineering, but remove the colour. Ignore the power handling of the speaker, you can tear them up if you crank the amp, but in the studio, cranking it probably isn't the plan, unless you want the power section compression, and that probably means you'll need an attenuator or a less powerful amp anyway. The 200w driver might not have the same tone as the ones in SVTs (although they used loads of different ones, some are less desirable and dead sounding). The originals were CTS square magnet jobs, the Jensens are modern production functional equivalents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cetera Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 [quote name='51m0n' post='1192823' date='Apr 8 2011, 01:07 PM']Get a Berg NV610[/quote] ^ this.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackruston Posted April 8, 2011 Author Share Posted April 8, 2011 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1192836' date='Apr 8 2011, 01:25 PM']The distance front to back of the cone in the SVT is important to tone, if affects the midrange, you basically want to clone the inside of one of the sections, 'upgrades' like stuffing and better size are better engineering, but remove the colour. Ignore the power handling of the speaker, you can tear them up if you crank the amp, but in the studio, cranking it probably isn't the plan, unless you want the power section compression, and that probably means you'll need an attenuator or a less powerful amp anyway. The 200w driver might not have the same tone as the ones in SVTs (although they used loads of different ones, some are less desirable and dead sounding). The originals were CTS square magnet jobs, the Jensens are modern production functional equivalents.[/quote] Yep absolutely understood. The speaker is critical to the response. We do crank things like that up until they distort or push them harder with pedals etc so perhaps I should consider a 4x10 or two 2x10's. I cant hang a dummy load of some sort off the other side of the amp can I? Maybe if I make the cab 8ohms it'll reduce the power the head is able to deliver to a single 4ohm cab. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackruston Posted April 8, 2011 Author Share Posted April 8, 2011 Ooh that Bergatino cab does look like a good solution. Do they come up used much? Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Hughes Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 What about a Euphonic Audio Wizzy 10 or 12? Not sealed and they do have a whizzer cone that brings you up to about 5K, but they are 4ohm and quite small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cetera Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 [quote name='jackruston' post='1192856' date='Apr 8 2011, 01:40 PM']Ooh that Bergatino cab does look like a good solution. Do they come up used much? Jack[/quote] Sadly, hardly ever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 [quote name='jackruston' post='1192850' date='Apr 8 2011, 01:35 PM']Yep absolutely understood. The speaker is critical to the response. We do crank things like that up until they distort or push them harder with pedals etc so perhaps I should consider a 4x10 or two 2x10's.[/quote] More speakers make louder, if you are pedalling distortion or cranking the input gain that is fine, since it is before the master volume, means the preamp is doing the distorting, so you don't need loads of powerso stick with the 2x10 plan. But a fair chunk of the valve amp mojo is in the power amp, and only cranking the master gives that sort of drive/compression, more speakers will make louder, in addition to sinking some more power. [quote name='jackruston' post='1192850' date='Apr 8 2011, 01:35 PM']I cant hang a dummy load of some sort off the other side of the amp can I?[/quote] I think proper dummy loads go between amp and speakers, need a beefy one for that amp though. [quote name='jackruston' post='1192850' date='Apr 8 2011, 01:35 PM']Maybe if I make the cab 8ohms it'll reduce the power the head is able to deliver to a single 4ohm cab.[/quote] Valve amps don't work like that, they get upset with the wrong impedance attached to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 The Ampeg SVT 210AV is a really great sounding little cab, if you like the Ampeg sound - two of those maybe? They handle 200 watts at 8 ohms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 [quote name='Lozz196' post='1193184' date='Apr 8 2011, 07:18 PM']The Ampeg SVT 210AV is a really great sounding little cab, if you like the Ampeg sound - two of those maybe? They handle 200 watts at 8 ohms.[/quote] was just about to say this! arent they basically a quarter of an 810? ive played this with the micro head and its awesome it is a mini svt andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackruston Posted April 8, 2011 Author Share Posted April 8, 2011 Ah ok...that looks interesting. In fact I could just rewire it to be 2ohms by wiring the speakers in series. Is that an infinite baffle design then? It's worth a try and obviously it's something I can easily demo which can't be said for a build-your-own or the bergatino which is going to cost me a lot in shipping to get it to the studio whether I want to keep it or not. IN fact, at 1000 quid it might just be more than I want to spend. I can easily find an 810 for half that used, and I'd be willing to live with the size for 500 quid! Thanks everyone for all this input. It's very much appreciated and please do keep it coming if anyone has anything else to add. THANK YOU. Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Just out of interest what do other studios use? I can't ever recall going into a studio and finding an 8x10 stashed in a cupboard, it's often a case of what the band has or something of decent quality in 2x10/2x12/1x15 format! I'd have thought there are a good few cabs out there as good/better than the archaic design of the Ampeg 8x10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackruston Posted April 8, 2011 Author Share Posted April 8, 2011 It's rare for studios themselves to provide 810's. They mostly have Portaflex's if anything. But bands often bring 810's. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 They hardly want the volume and the potential bleed in a live room so an 8x10 is overkill most of the time. I'd go with the 2x10..although Ampeg never used to have decent power ratings on their 10"'s and a 200w 2x10 isn't so great, IMO. You could use a power soak, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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