The Major's Bass Boot Camp - Session 34

[Major-Minor]

[u]The Major's Bass Boot Camp - Session 34[/u]

Classic Bass Part Analysis 2 - "Moondance"


Love it or loath it, Van Morrison's "Moondance", and more specifically, the bass part, often causes heated discussion on this forum.

I decided to take the recent challenge set by "frank" and here I present my analysis of the original recorded bass part, and some suggestions for a better line.

It has to be said:
The original recorded bass part is very messily played ! A lot of the note choices are perfectly acceptable, however the timing and feel make the recording sound like a first run-through !
To be fair to the bass player, perhaps he couldn't properly hear the rest of the band or his headphones were not working …… !!!??? But how could the producer have allowed this take to be released - it beggars belief !

Anyway:
Note-wise there are a few areas that we can improve on, although this will make it sound and feel somewhat different. The problem with recordings is that they become accepted for what they are. Any deviation from what you are used to hearing will always seem "wrong" at first. So please bear with me, and try to get used to my suggested alternatives before dismissing them out of hand !

Creating a bass part is a very personal art. We all have different views as to how to play our beloved instrument. You may feel I have overdone it a bit in some bars with too many skips or triplets etc. And if a producer or MD / Conductor said to me "Can you simplify the line a bit ?" then of course I would do as I am bid !
But I am pleased with my Alternative Bass Parts. Of the two, I think the 2nd works best.

Here is my transcription of the song, up to bar 36 (the rest of the song is just repetition of the material thus far).

MBBC34a
[attachment=76940:MBBC34a.pdf]
[attachment=76943:MBBC34a.mp3]

I've tried to be as accurate as I can with my transcription of the bass part. However the accompaniment is sometimes an approximation. (I couldn't bear to spend too much more time on this !!)


We can say that this piece is in A minor (which has no sharps or flats) despite the inclusion of F#s in the Bm7/E chords.
The melody line is entirely based on the A Natural Minor scale (Aeolian Mode) but the inclusion of the F#s in the chordal accompaniment means we can't describe this piece as being Modal.


Let's split the page into 3 sections:

Part A - bars 1 to 20 inclusive.
This is a 4 bar intro followed by 16 bars of: | Am7 / Bm7/E / |
Actually, this is slightly misleading. To be more accurate, I should have put: | Am7 / Bm7 Bm7/E |
In other words, the E root only appears on the 4th beat of the bar (with the exception of bars 12 and 14 where E is on the 3rd beat).
The piano and guitar never play this E root. Its only the bass that plays it.
In my Alternative Bass Parts, I've chosen frequently to place the E root on beat 3.

Part B - bars 21 to 28 inclusive.
Here we introduce the sub-dominant chord of Dm6 alternating with the tonic chord.
The crotchet triplet figures in Bars 27 and 28 are interesting:
In bar 27 Dm7 leads to Dm6 ie the note C in Dm7 (the 7th) moves to a B in Dm6 (the 6th). And in the next bar, E7+ (the + means an augmented 5th) the C (aug 5th) also move to the B of E7 (the 5th). So we get a nice moving inner part, which is the same two notes in each bar, despite the root chord changing.

Part C - bar 29 to the end. Am7 Dm7. And a Dominant chord of E7 in the final bar.

So I'm going to scrutinise Parts A and B and try to find better solutions to the bass line. Part C is a riff figure which, as it is doubled by the sax and flute, we will leave well alone.

So here are my Alternative Bass Parts:

MBBC34b
[attachment=76941:MBBC34b.pdf]
[attachment=76944:MBBC34b.mp3]

MBBC34c
[attachment=76942:MBBC34c.pdf]
[attachment=76945:MBBC34c.mp3]


The first thing which I noticed when listening to the Morrison version was that something didn't feel quite right in bar 7. On closer inspection, I realised that the vocal line on beat 2 is (notes) B and A, while the bass part is an A#. I've arrowed the first couple of times this happens but it continues throughout Part A.

Now you might say "…well what's wrong with a clash like that ?". And you would be right, there are many clashes of this sort that go un-noticed most of the time. And dissonances can work really well if voiced correctly. But this one really started to irritate me after repeated listening. So I have come up with what I feel are better notes in my 2 Alternative Bass Parts. I've kept the A# in the 2nd and 4th bars where there is no clash with the voice.

In "Alternative Bass Part 1" (Alt 1), I have replaced the A# with a C (the minor 3rd in Am7).
Its still a dissonant interval (between the B of the voice and this C in the Bass - a major 7th) but as the vocal B resolves down to the A, its more like a momentary suspension and seems to fit quite nicely.

In "Alternative Bass Part 2" (Alt 2), I have this time replaced the rogue A# with a G (arrowed). This works really well (the vocal notes C B now working with bass notes A G ie in 10ths) but it does slightly change the feel of the song. I really like this, now I've got used to it. Notice that, again, I've kept the A# in the second of each pair of bars where there is no clash. So now we get a downward line in bar 1 followed by an upward movement in bar 2. A nice contrast I think.

With these changes, I've created a 2 bar phrase, rather than the 1 bar phrase that dominates the original part.

The original bass part stops walking in bars 5 and 6 (the start of the vocal), he just points at the piano figures. Nothing wrong with that of course, but I decided it might be better to set the walking pulse straight off.

I really don't like the F# used on the second beat in bars 12 and 18. The chord here is Am7 so we get a minor 9th clash (F# to G). Somehow it just feels wrong ! So, again, I've changed it to something I like better.

In bar 19, the crotchet triplet figure in the voice and piano are set against the pulsing 4's in the bass. Certainly nothing amiss here (in fact I rather like the 6's against the 4's), but see what you think of my idea of having the bass also play this triplet figure.

In Part B
Bar 21: The original bass line is messy, as the notes are, again, too near the vocal line for comfort. So for my Alternative versions, I've used other notes from the Dm6 chord.
In Alt 1, jumping up to a B then an A, and in Alt 2, the other way round, jumping up to A then B. Either way works well, I think.

In bar 22, the original bass actually plays the same as the vocal - A B C (D). This feels weak to me. Again, this is just a personal preference, but I think the following sounds better:
In Alt 1, I've used "contrary motion", such that the bass plays C B A (against the vocal A B C ). Now only the B is common to the Vocal and the Bass.
In Alt 2, I've actually changed the chord on beat 3 of this bar so we can use a G# in the bass. See what you think. Is this stronger now ?
I certainly believe so !

In bars 27 and 28, the crotchet triplet figures, I have chosen to vary the notes a little. Note that in Alt 2, I have used the note C in bar 28, as the chord on the first 2 beats is:
E7 augmented (E7+): E G# C D


There are many other small changes in both Alternative Parts that I felt made the line more interesting, but they are purely a matter of my personal taste, not because there is a theoretical reason for changing the original.


So to sum up:
I think the main lesson to learn here is that one should listen carefully to the melody when creating a bass line. Try to compliment the melody by playing notes which fit harmonically ie are not a direct clash. There is nothing wrong per se with dissonance (clash), but it pays to be aware of uncomfortable clashes and to seek an alternative note if at all possible.
If needed, get the rest of the band to change a chord to something more appropriate, if that will solve the problem.

Finally, have a listen to the Michael Buble big band version of this song. Nice !

The Major

[JakeBrownBass]

Great work as ever Peter.

[BottomE]

I am looking forward to getting on this. Thanks Major.

[stevie]

This is very generous. I think the whole Basschat community owes you a pint.

[bluesman]

[quote name='Major-Minor' post='1192625' date='Apr 8 2011, 09:49 AM'][u]The Major's Bass Boot Camp - Session 34[/u]

Classic Bass Part Analysis 2 - "Moondance"


Love it or loath it, Van Morrison's "Moondance", and more specifically, the bass part, often causes heated discussion on this forum.

I decided to take the recent challenge set by "frank" and here I present my analysis of the original recorded bass part, and some suggestions for a better line.

It has to be said:
The original recorded bass part is very messily played ! A lot of the note choices are perfectly acceptable, however the timing and feel make the recording sound like a first run-through !
To be fair to the bass player, perhaps he couldn't properly hear the rest of the band or his headphones were not working …… !!!??? But how could the producer have allowed this take to be released - it beggars belief !

Anyway:
Note-wise there are a few areas that we can improve on, although this will make it sound and feel somewhat different. The problem with recordings is that they become accepted for what they are. Any deviation from what you are used to hearing will always seem "wrong" at first. So please bear with me, and try to get used to my suggested alternatives before dismissing them out of hand !

Creating a bass part is a very personal art. We all have different views as to how to play our beloved instrument. You may feel I have overdone it a bit in some bars with too many skips or triplets etc. And if a producer or MD / Conductor said to me "Can you simplify the line a bit ?" then of course I would do as I am bid !
But I am pleased with my Alternative Bass Parts. Of the two, I think the 2nd works best.

Here is my transcription of the song, up to bar 36 (the rest of the song is just repetition of the material thus far).

MBBC34a
[attachment=76940:MBBC34a.pdf]
[attachment=76943:MBBC34a.mp3]

I've tried to be as accurate as I can with my transcription of the bass part. However the accompaniment is sometimes an approximation. (I couldn't bear to spend too much more time on this !!)


We can say that this piece is in A minor (which has no sharps or flats) despite the inclusion of F#s in the Bm7/E chords.
The melody line is entirely based on the A Natural Minor scale (Aeolian Mode) but the inclusion of the F#s in the chordal accompaniment means we can't describe this piece as being Modal.


Let's split the page into 3 sections:

Part A - bars 1 to 20 inclusive.
This is a 4 bar intro followed by 16 bars of: | Am7 / Bm7/E / |
Actually, this is slightly misleading. To be more accurate, I should have put: | Am7 / Bm7 Bm7/E |
In other words, the E root only appears on the 4th beat of the bar (with the exception of bars 12 and 14 where E is on the 3rd beat).
The piano and guitar never play this E root. Its only the bass that plays it.
In my Alternative Bass Parts, I've chosen frequently to place the E root on beat 3.

Part B - bars 21 to 28 inclusive.
Here we introduce the sub-dominant chord of Dm6 alternating with the tonic chord.
The crotchet triplet figures in Bars 27 and 28 are interesting:
In bar 27 Dm7 leads to Dm6 ie the note C in Dm7 (the 7th) moves to a B in Dm6 (the 6th). And in the next bar, E7+ (the + means an augmented 5th) the C (aug 5th) also move to the B of E7 (the 5th). So we get a nice moving inner part, which is the same two notes in each bar, despite the root chord changing.

Part C - bar 29 to the end. Am7 Dm7. And a Dominant chord of E7 in the final bar.

So I'm going to scrutinise Parts A and B and try to find better solutions to the bass line. Part C is a riff figure which, as it is doubled by the sax and flute, we will leave well alone.

So here are my Alternative Bass Parts:

MBBC34b
[attachment=76941:MBBC34b.pdf]
[attachment=76944:MBBC34b.mp3]

MBBC34c
[attachment=76942:MBBC34c.pdf]
[attachment=76945:MBBC34c.mp3]


The first thing which I noticed when listening to the Morrison version was that something didn't feel quite right in bar 7. On closer inspection, I realised that the vocal line on beat 2 is (notes) B and A, while the bass part is an A#. I've arrowed the first couple of times this happens but it continues throughout Part A.

Now you might say "…well what's wrong with a clash like that ?". And you would be right, there are many clashes of this sort that go un-noticed most of the time. And dissonances can work really well if voiced correctly. But this one really started to irritate me after repeated listening. So I have come up with what I feel are better notes in my 2 Alternative Bass Parts. I've kept the A# in the 2nd and 4th bars where there is no clash with the voice.

In "Alternative Bass Part 1" (Alt 1), I have replaced the A# with a C (the minor 3rd in Am7).
Its still a dissonant interval (between the B of the voice and this C in the Bass - a major 7th) but as the vocal B resolves down to the A, its more like a momentary suspension and seems to fit quite nicely.

In "Alternative Bass Part 2" (Alt 2), I have this time replaced the rogue A# with a G (arrowed). This works really well (the vocal notes C B now working with bass notes A G ie in 10ths) but it does slightly change the feel of the song. I really like this, now I've got used to it. Notice that, again, I've kept the A# in the second of each pair of bars where there is no clash. So now we get a downward line in bar 1 followed by an upward movement in bar 2. A nice contrast I think.

With these changes, I've created a 2 bar phrase, rather than the 1 bar phrase that dominates the original part.

The original bass part stops walking in bars 5 and 6 (the start of the vocal), he just points at the piano figures. Nothing wrong with that of course, but I decided it might be better to set the walking pulse straight off.

I really don't like the F# used on the second beat in bars 12 and 18. The chord here is Am7 so we get a minor 9th clash (F# to G). Somehow it just feels wrong ! So, again, I've changed it to something I like better.

In bar 19, the crotchet triplet figure in the voice and piano are set against the pulsing 4's in the bass. Certainly nothing amiss here (in fact I rather like the 6's against the 4's), but see what you think of my idea of having the bass also play this triplet figure.

In Part B
Bar 21: The original bass line is messy, as the notes are, again, too near the vocal line for comfort. So for my Alternative versions, I've used other notes from the Dm6 chord.
In Alt 1, jumping up to a B then an A, and in Alt 2, the other way round, jumping up to A then B. Either way works well, I think.

In bar 22, the original bass actually plays the same as the vocal - A B C (D). This feels weak to me. Again, this is just a personal preference, but I think the following sounds better:
In Alt 1, I've used "contrary motion", such that the bass plays C B A (against the vocal A B C ). Now only the B is common to the Vocal and the Bass.
In Alt 2, I've actually changed the chord on beat 3 of this bar so we can use a G# in the bass. See what you think. Is this stronger now ?
I certainly believe so !

In bars 27 and 28, the crotchet triplet figures, I have chosen to vary the notes a little. Note that in Alt 2, I have used the note C in bar 28, as the chord on the first 2 beats is:
E7 augmented (E7+): E G# C D


There are many other small changes in both Alternative Parts that I felt made the line more interesting, but they are purely a matter of my personal taste, not because there is a theoretical reason for changing the original.


So to sum up:
I think the main lesson to learn here is that one should listen carefully to the melody when creating a bass line. Try to compliment the melody by playing notes which fit harmonically ie are not a direct clash. There is nothing wrong per se with dissonance (clash), but it pays to be aware of uncomfortable clashes and to seek an alternative note if at all possible.
If needed, get the rest of the band to change a chord to something more appropriate, if that will solve the problem.

Finally, have a listen to the Michael Buble big band version of this song. Nice !

The Major[/quote]
each to there own....but i still think its one of the best bass lines ever....love it....you must have a fantastic ear and knowledge of the bass....coz i couldnt fault it....absolute beautifull walking bass line....no offence just my humble opinion.
cheers bob

[ZMech]

Nice alternative. I'd never really noticed the sloppiness of the original, but now that it's pointed out it seems glaringly obvious! One question, it may be something you now do subconsciously, but did you work out how to play the vocal line on the bass? Just as quite a few times your bassline joins in or mimics it higher up, which fits quite nicely. My teacher recommended doing so, has been quite interesting, quite cool to see the effect it has, if that is indeed what you're doing.

and of course, cheers for taking the time to write that all out!

[Major-Minor]

[quote name='bluesman' post='1193128' date='Apr 8 2011, 06:14 PM']each to there own....but i still think its one of the best bass lines ever....love it....you must have a fantastic ear and knowledge of the bass....coz i couldnt fault it....absolute beautifull walking bass line....no offence just my humble opinion.
cheers bob[/quote]
The reason for writing this Session was partly due to "frank"'s challenge to come up with an alternative and improved bass line, but also to use this bass-line as an educational tool. In order to get basschatters (those who want / need to progress) thinking a bit deeper about the theory side of playing, this seemed like a good example to use.

The original recorded bass part feels very "busked" to me, as if the player had a rough idea of what he would play but was feeling his way through rather than having a specific written part. If I'm right in this assertion, then that is why there are a few places that can be improved on once we look at it from a theoretical perspective.

Its not my intention to be critical of the original. There are some nice ideas in there, along with some (to me) obvious gaffs.

The Major

[Major-Minor]

[quote name='Zach' post='1193419' date='Apr 8 2011, 11:48 PM']One question, it may be something you now do subconsciously, but did you work out how to play the vocal line on the bass? Just as quite a few times your bassline joins in or mimics it higher up, which fits quite nicely. My teacher recommended doing so, has been quite interesting, quite cool to see the effect it has, if that is indeed what you're doing.[/quote]
Zach, did you read all my text in this Session ? I wouldn't blame you if you didn't - there's a lot to wade through !

But the main thrust of my thinking here has been to suggest to all bass players to take more interest in the melody line when creating a bass part. In fact of course, you need to be aware of everything that's going on in the rest of the band. Good listening skills are vital if you are to create something that gels properly.

As a composer / arranger myself, I have to take care of all the parts that I'm writing, making sure that everything is complimentary and fits well. That is the nature of written music. But in a band situation, where everybody is contributing to the final creation, it's very easy to get stuck in your own part, ignoring the other players and singers.

So learning melodies as well as bass parts will help you develop that extra sense of what is happening around you.

The Major

[frank]

Many many thanks Major so generous of you to give up your free time and take on with this for us (me).
And so fast coming back with the analysis and alternatives.
Lots of work here for me will get stuck in straight away wish i could repay you (few pints if your in my area and a royalty every time i use your line )
The combination of all this will really help me improvise my own line on the song.
Im off to moondance
Thanks again

Frank