Amplifying a double bass LOUDLY

[BobVbass]

+1 "Yes i'm in the Alps, but it's not much cop - I'd rather be at work" would be an appropriate response

Tried the Moses Graphite this weekend - Holy Cow! really loud; definitey no preamp needed (although I'll probably use it for tone anyway)

Tone's good - about he same as a KA - maybe a bit thicker; having no visible poles is great though as the string doesn't bounce and click when you slap - not a bad option anyways....

[Clarky]

Will be heading back to UK today. Unfortunately Mrs C had a bad fall yesterday and ruptured her knee ligaments in one leg, meaning she is on crutches and in much discomfort. Worse still she will not be able to drive or ride horses (her favourite activity, equivalent to my playing bass) for six weeks :-( And no, I'm not making this up for the purposes of this thread

Back on topic, the Moses sounds interesting Bob. If the foam plugs don't do the trick on my DB, then this looks my most likely route.

[Gareth Hughes]

Jeez, you didn't have to go and push Mrs C just for our benefit. But never let it be said that Clarky is one to let the side down.

Seriously though - I hope there's no lasting damage, I'm sure that kind of injury can't be much fun. Here's to a speedy recovery - and lots of pampering from Mr C.

Edited April 18, 2011 by Gareth Hughes

[BobVbass]

oh nasty - sorry to hear that mate - hope things mend quickly.

[fatback]

Sounds painful and a real shame to have to end a hol like that. I prescribe lots of chocolate, a modicum of champers and several DVD box sets.

No, not for you

[jbn4001]

Hi,

In keeping with the original topic .. I'm now playing in a big band (as in wind/brass /Glenn Miller/ Stan Kenton etc stylee) . Currently doing that with electric bass but really want to do it with double bass. I currently rent a double bass (no pickups on it).. and reading this thread kinda worries me. I really really want to play a DB with the big band rather than EUB. The band can get quite loud when in full flight (6 saxes, 2/3 trumpets, 3 trombones, guitar, piano, drums) ..

1. Should I even try .. or just go EUB (perhaps a question to those that have tried in loud situations/ big band) ?

2. If DB is viable.. .. should I get a "hybrid" which allegedly may be less prone to feedback .. I was going to save up for a decent full on carved DB .. .. but if it's just going to feedback there seems little point. Thoughts?

3. My amp set up. Viable? I own a Markbass LMII and a couple of Bergantino 1x12s for my electric. Ideally I want to use the amp+cabs (or cab) with the DB.. Have read the thread so would consider Platinum Pro preamp plus a mag pickup (though do mag pickups result in a more "electric" tone?)

If this is a thread hijack lemme know and will start a new one.. otherwise would very much appreciate advice on the above.

Thanks all.

jbn4001

[bassace]

[quote name='jbn4001' post='1236536' date='May 19 2011, 01:03 AM']Hi,

In keeping with the original topic .. I'm now playing in a big band (as in wind/brass /Glenn Miller/ Stan Kenton etc stylee) . Currently doing that with electric bass but really want to do it with double bass. I currently rent a double bass (no pickups on it).. and reading this thread kinda worries me. I really really want to play a DB with the big band rather than EUB. The band can get quite loud when in full flight (6 saxes, 2/3 trumpets, 3 trombones, guitar, piano, drums) ..

1. Should I even try .. or just go EUB (perhaps a question to those that have tried in loud situations/ big band) ?

2. If DB is viable.. .. should I get a "hybrid" which allegedly may be less prone to feedback .. I was going to save up for a decent full on carved DB .. .. but if it's just going to feedback there seems little point. Thoughts?

3. My amp set up. Viable? I own a Markbass LMII and a couple of Bergantino 1x12s for my electric. Ideally I want to use the amp+cabs (or cab) with the DB.. Have read the thread so would consider Platinum Pro preamp plus a mag pickup (though do mag pickups result in a more "electric" tone?)

If this is a thread hijack lemme know and will start a new one.. otherwise would very much appreciate advice on the above.

Thanks all.

jbn4001[/quote]

First of all, it must be a DB over EUB; tonally, dynamically and - I hate to say this - the whole look.

I'd recommend a hybrid over a carved. You'll get more bang for your bucks and will find that a hybrid is easier to amp than carved - unless you get very lucky. I'm having a bit of bother with a nice new carved right now. It sounds great by itself but is too tonally complex to get a nice tight sound with a pickup. Great for miking though.

Try not to use a mag pickup. They are great feedback killers but you lose a lot of the DB sound. As you say, the mag will get you a more 'electric' tone.

Your existing rig should be OK although I tend to use a 10" on top of the 12" in that situation. I'm an Underwood pickup fan; it has served me well for several years. although there are those who will disagree. It has quite a lot of top and middle which you will need and its harshness can be tamed with a Plat Pro.

In your proposed big band you should not have too much trouble cutting through the brass and horns and I usually find that drums are OK too. The killer tends to be the guitar, especially if he uses thick chords including the two bottom strings. If he does a Freddie Green and plays on the top four most of the time you should be fine.

[PaulKing]

I cut myself a set of those doug's plugs (sorry doug).
I bought a hi density foam kickboard (kids swimming float) and cut it to shape, leaving a small lip around the top surface. Cost me a tenner and a couple hours fidling with a modelling knife.

They take 10secs to install, hardly noticeable on stage, reduces feedback massively. I tried making a set like John Slobluesine made, neater design that fixes inside the f-hole with no lip on the outer suirface. Totally invisible, but a right faff to install I found, and you're limited to less dense foam.

I've played with big loud Brian Setzer Orchestra type band, raucous guitar, loud drums, no probs.

Piezo pickup, Sensible gain staging (pre amp LOW gain, amp LOW gain, HIGH master volume) plus added EQ control and phase switch from the Fishman Pro Plat sorts out most feedback issues for me.

Edited May 20, 2011 by PaulKing

[Clarky]

I should have gone the £10 route - I got my 'Doug's Plugs' and they are a loose fit (my fault as I sent slightly sloppy tracings) so I am not sure they really help at all - though to be fair I'only got them last week and I haven't cranked up the voume yet (got band rehearsal on Sunday, ahead of Meadowlands festival gig the following w/e)

What I have done is buy a Mackie 10" speaker (the C200) and stand off Mr_Bassman and am going to try this behind me at head height, not pointing directly at the bass. So my setup will be: Baggs preamp into amp (either AI Coda or Markbass F500/Midget), set to one side, with Mackie on stand behind me. Fingers crossd that will do the trick. As a backup I have ordered a mag pickup from the US.

[henry norton]

Double soundpost! Apparently they're quite popular with rockabilly players (and sticking a DB through an SVT classic is going to cause more than a small feedback problem I should imagine). Apparently it totally kills the acoustic sound but if you never use it unamplified....

[url="http://doublebasschat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8487&highlight=double+sound+post&page=3"]There are loads of threads about this on here[/url]

[Clarky]

Update: We had a (nearly) full-band rehearsal yesterday ahead of the festival gig next weekend at pretty hefty volume. I used a Mackie 10"PA speaker (a C200) on a stand at head height just behind me and it worked brilliantly (for our drummer as well). Thanks to Mr_Bassman (Keith) for suggesting this route. Will use this at the Meadowlands festival.

Setup yesterday was: Shadow SH950 pickup ->LR Baggs Venue DI preamp ->Acoustic Image Coda ->MackieC200

Edited May 23, 2011 by Clarky

[fatback]

[quote name='Clarky' post='1241153' date='May 23 2011, 08:10 AM']Update: We had a (nearly) full-band rehearsal yesterday ahead of the festival gig next weekend at pretty hefty volume. I used a Mackie 10"PA speaker (a C200) on a stand at head height just behind me and it worked brilliantly (for our drummer as well). Thanks to Mr_Bassman (Keith) for suggesting this route. Will use this at the Meadowlands festival.

Setup yesterday was: Shadow SH950 pickup ->LR Baggs Venue DI preamp ->Acoustic Image Coda ->MackieC200[/quote]

Very useful info, thanks Clarky.

What kind of stand was that, and do you think it would take a Midget (no tweeter).

[Clarky]

[quote name='fatback' post='1252170' date='May 31 2011, 10:47 PM']Very useful info, thanks Clarky.

What kind of stand was that, and do you think it would take a Midget (no tweeter).[/quote]
Hi there it was a PA stand like on this link [url="http://www.gak.co.uk/en/mackie-c200-passive-pa-speaker/22604"]http://www.gak.co.uk/en/mackie-c200-passive-pa-speaker/22604[/url]

Funnily enough Alex at Barefaced asked me whether it would be useful to add a 'top hat' hole underneath the Midget for PA use. I am sure he would mod your Midget so that it could work this way - as it stands the Midget won't sit on this sort of stand though

[fatback]

[quote name='Clarky' post='1252188' date='May 31 2011, 11:01 PM']Hi there it was a PA stand like on this link [url="http://www.gak.co.uk/en/mackie-c200-passive-pa-speaker/22604"]http://www.gak.co.uk/en/mackie-c200-passive-pa-speaker/22604[/url]

Funnily enough Alex at Barefaced asked me whether it would be useful to add a 'top hat' hole underneath the Midget for PA use. I am sure he would mod your Midget so that it could work this way - as it stands the Midget won't sit on this sort of stand though[/quote]


Pity it won't fit. Alas, I'm too far away from Alex for a mod.

btw, your problem with the Doubler having only one speakon out was why I insisted to Alex that he put two speakons on my midget. Why they're not standard on Alex's cabs I can't understand. I certainly wouldn't buy one without.

[Clarky]

I guess you could use a folding amp stand to similar effect [url="http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=folding+amplifier+stand&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#q=folding+amplifier+stand&hl=en&client=safari&prmd=ivnsfd&source=univ&tbm=shop&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=mmnlTbKwHoWahQfDobzzBw&ved=0CG4QrQQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=a023836697f9285e&biw=1004&bih=1237"]http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=folding+a...04&bih=1237[/url]

BTW I ended up returning the Doubler as I felt the Acoustic Image gear was cleaner with a piezo pickup ( there was little/ no difference using a mag pickup to be fair). I then got the new Clarus+ head as it packs 800w as well as two channels and the usual AI functionality and sound. Am very happy with rig now as it can go very loud, very clean and has as good a chance of defeating feedback as I think is possible with a DB. it's now

Shadow 950 or Krivo mag pickup > LR Baggs Venue DI preamp > Acoustic Image Clarus+ > EA Wizzy 12 or Midget T, with option of adding Mackie C200 when PA system monitoring is poor

[Mr Bassman]

[quote name='fatback' post='1252200' date='May 31 2011, 11:15 PM']Pity it won't fit. Alas, I'm too far away from Alex for a mod.

btw, your problem with the Doubler having only one speakon out was why I insisted to Alex that he put two speakons on my midget. Why they're not standard on Alex's cabs I can't understand. I certainly wouldn't buy one without.[/quote]

You can buy a "[url="http://www.maplin.co.uk/search?criteria=top+hat"]top hat[/url]" from Maplin for the price of a couple of pints.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='Clarky' post='1252227' date='May 31 2011, 11:31 PM']Shadow 950 or Krivo mag pickup > LR Baggs Venue DI preamp > Acoustic Image Clarus+ > EA Wizzy 12 or Midget T, with option of adding Mackie C200 when PA system monitoring is poor[/quote]

Sounds good. What's all that worth if you don't mind me asking?

[Clarky]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1252284' date='Jun 1 2011, 01:04 AM']Sounds good. What's all that worth if you don't mind me asking?[/quote]
More than I was planning on spending! just over £2k in total:

Pickups were £100 each, preamp £200, Wizzy and Mackie cabs I got s/h off BassChat for £200 and £150. The expensive bits were the Clarus (not much change from a grand) and the Midget (about £500, although I use that also for my electric bass rig).

[TheRev]

I use a folding 'X' style keyboard stand to lift my BFM Omni 10.5 up to head height. It was about £15 from Digital Village.

[slobluesine]

Ikea do a folding stool for around £15

[fatback]

[quote name='Mr Bassman' post='1252257' date='Jun 1 2011, 12:02 AM']You can buy a "[url="http://www.maplin.co.uk/search?criteria=top+hat"]top hat[/url]" from Maplin for the price of a couple of pints.[/quote]

Nice gismo. Looks well worth a try.

As for keyboard stands, I always imagined them to be less than head high at max extension, though maybe I'm wrong there.

Hoping my Kent Armstrong / Full Circle combination (being fitted atm) will help as well.

[TheRev]

[quote name='fatback' post='1253251' date='Jun 1 2011, 10:26 PM']Nice gismo. Looks well worth a try.

As for keyboard stands, I always imagined them to be less than head high at max extension, though maybe I'm wrong there.

Hoping my Kent Armstrong / Full Circle combination (being fitted atm) will help as well.[/quote]

My X stand was described as a keyboard/amp stand and easily goes up to head height. Having said that, I'm a total shortarse so it doesn't have to reach very far.

[fatback]

[quote name='TheRev' post='1254325' date='Jun 2 2011, 05:39 PM']My X stand was described as a keyboard/amp stand and easily goes up to head height. Having said that, I'm a total shortarse so it doesn't have to reach very far.[/quote]

I'm no basketball player either, so maybe it would work for me too.

[Beedster]

This is quite interesting re getting the bass volume up, especially given that we're always after 'clean' sound from our expensive DB amps!

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=138906&hl="]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=138906&hl=[/url]

C

[fatback]

Just got a Full Circle and a Kent Armstrong mag fitted to by our wondrous luthier.

Belt 'n braces, and they sound very good separately or mixed.

Happy me. No more feedback fear.