Progressing up the bass amp ladder

[The Fly]

I currently use an Ashdown Mag300 evo 2 2x10 combo and generic 1X15 extension cab
I also had a while back the full Ashdown mag 300 rig with 4x10 and 1x15 extension cab.

At some point I will be wanting to get a bit of a better rig.
Ashdown is reasonalbe gear for the price but I dont get the sounds I want.

I suffer form the usual ashdown complaint of it being a bit muffled.

So my question is if i was to look at a scond rig around the £500-£600 mark what is available and what is recommended.

I play in a rock covers band something versatile would be preferred.

Any help or views would be appreciated.

Cheers

[AttitudeCastle]

Look around second hand on here! £500 to £600 can get you alot of amp for your money!

[Lozz196]

I`d look at Hartke, Ampeg, Peavey or Trace Elliot. All have great sounds, are reliable, and easy within your budget 2nd hand - there are probably a fair few on here at present. The Hartke LH 500 gets a lot of praise on here, and is £300 new - leaves you £300 for a decent 2nd hand cab.

Also, there`s the Marshall MB range. Powerful, great sounding (especially for rock - well it`s Marshall, it would have to be) and reasonably priced.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Lozz196

[JTUK]

I think Ashdown is ok..but if you have abit of money you might be able to get stuff from GK and Hartke if you consider them up a level.
I'd put them on the same sort of par, myself...along with PV.

Second hand quality gear..? You can get very good cabs from Eden SH. TE always is about for a good price. It is likely to have been around for a long time, and the days when it was top notch gear have long gone, IMO, but TE still does a job and goes for very little money for what it can do. People use the term bombproof and it is deffo sturdy, IMO.

For the better gear, £600 could get you a very good amp second hand and you'd probably need another 5 for a cab outside of the brands I have mentioned above. Weightier gear is not so desirable with a lot of fogeys with bad backs and small cars so there is quite a lot of bang for the money if you can shift the weight.

Just my 2p..and others will swear by certain names for their own reasons.

[munkonthehill]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1194564' date='Apr 10 2011, 01:30 PM']Just my 2p..and others will swear by certain names for their own reasons.[/quote]

+1

Do your own research and come to your own decision. Everyone has their preferences and unless you do your own research then you wont know whats best FOR YOU!!

Trust me on this matter. After going through alot of amps I realise you have to do the work yourself.

What you should be doing is getting a shortlist of amps you are considering then asking BC what their thoughts of of said amps due to their personal experience.
At least this way you will have a decent knowledge of whats out there and what you want, then you can take onboard or dismiss folks views!!!!

[chris_b]

I'd move up in steps. First I'd get a good quality 8 ohm 410 and use it as an extension cab and save up for a quality 500 watt amp.

[ThomBassmonkey]

No prizes for guessing what I'd recommend.

But I agree that you should narrow it down somewhat yourself, 75% of buying an amp is what sounds good [u]TO YOU.[/u] A lot of people on here have the amps that they think sounds amazing, I'm no different with my GKs, so I could recommend GKs to you but they might not do what you want. The last 25% can come down to reliability, versatility, weight, looks etc.

If you're at a total loss of what you want to sound like, try and find a band that you like the bass tone of and we can help you by looking at what kind of tone it is and what gear could be used to create a similar tone, but without knowing your tastes there's simply too many options.

And to agree and disagree with what Chris said above me, since you're already using separates, you can upgrade in bits. Personally I don't like Ashdowns either, but I tried a MAG410T with my old 700RB-II and it sounded alright (not as good as the 210RBH I had at the time, but there's a significant price difference) so I'd say that it's worth looking at other heads to use with your cab. You can get some brilliant heads for £600 new and if you're going 2nd hand, there's a massive amount on offer for that price.

Edited April 10, 2011 by ThomBassmonkey

[xgsjx]

If you can stretch £6-700 will get you a 2nd hand MarkBass 2x10 combo or a s/h LMII & a decent cab.
MB can give you a very clear sound & the filters allow for a good range from muddy wool to hifi.

[stingrayPete1977]

Keep your cabs for now and just get a new head obviously Im going to say Genz shuttle 6 or 9 but any of them TC MB GK etc etc will sound loads better than the old EVO amp mate if its the muffling you dont like (I have 100% been in this position right down to the 1x15 extension cab). You could take your cabs to Bass Direct or similar and try them out you might be surprised how good your own cabs already are

[chris_b]

[quote name='The Fly' post='1194526' date='Apr 10 2011, 01:01 PM']....I currently use an Ashdown Mag300 evo 2 2x10 combo and generic 1X15 extension cab....[/quote]
I read this as a 210 combo and a 115 cab.

The problem with combos is they restrict your upgrade options. Whatever a "generic 115" is it doesn't sound too good so that's the one I'd get rid of first.

You can take small steps and get a whole rig for your money or you can take bigger steps and replace your rig in 2 parts. The second way gets you further up the quality ladder. For instance you could afford the Aguilar DB410 in the FS section now and save for a good amp.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1194792' date='Apr 10 2011, 05:20 PM']I read this as a 210 combo and a 115 cab.

The problem with combos is they restrict your upgrade options. Whatever a "generic 115" is it doesn't sound too good so that's the one I'd get rid of first.

You can take small steps and get a whole rig for your money or you can take bigger steps and replace your rig in 2 parts. The second way gets you further up the quality ladder. For instance you could afford the Aguilar DB410 in the FS section now and save for a good amp.[/quote]

Not strictly true here as the Ashdown combo is just a normal head fixed to the top of a normal cab so you can unplug the speaker/s.

I could run my Shuttle through his Ashdown combo 2x10 and the extension cab and just leave the Ashdown head turned off but left in to fill the whole and as a backup in case god forbid the Genz packed up! You could be clever and remove the head and either make an infill panel or fit the class D head inside the redundant slot, Four big screws on the top and voila! I told you I have been down this road

[The Fly]

The 1X15 cab is a home made job with a Peavey speaker in.
I only paid £50 for it and it does the job of beefing up the 2x10 combo.

Im just looking for ideas for what to broaden my search to when/if i get the money to upgrade.

Dont get me wrong I dont dislike the rig or sound its just, as most of us do, I would like to improve it over time.

[4-string-thing]

[quote name='Lozz196' post='1194543' date='Apr 10 2011, 01:15 PM']I`d look at Hartke, Ampeg, Peavey or Trace Elliot. All have great sounds[/quote]

No offence to Lozz but I'd have to say that in my experience, nothing could be further from the truth!

I've never used Hartke, but at some time or another I've been forced to use gear by the other three (in various rehearsal rooms and gigs where we've shared gear) and I've never found any of them to sound better than my Ashdown gear (let alone my Acoustic stuff)

I'm with JTUK on this, none of them are a step up (except maybe the high-end Ampegs, and even they don't sound that good to me)

If you're sounding "muffled" I'd be looking at changing your basses pick-ups and/or strings!

I was once given some advice that I believe to be true "an amp is an amp is an amp, but get some good speakers and even a cheap amp will sound good"

[lojo]

If we are debating what's best, then its very personal, but I have gigged MAG gear, and IMO there is a reason its the buget line of Ashdown, but there are plenty of people who love it, so its not an exact science

As mentioned, you can also pick up some great Trace gear second hand, which does sound great, but you'll have to accept the weight issue, which once was par for course, but now its a pain

Edited April 10, 2011 by lojo

[gjones]

[quote name='4-string-thing' post='1194967' date='Apr 10 2011, 07:47 PM']I was once given some advice that I believe to be true "an amp is an amp is an amp, but get some good speakers and even a cheap amp will sound good"[/quote]

+1

A decent amp (and the ashdown is decent) through a good set of speakers will improve your sound no end. Invest in a decent cab first and see what improvement that makes to your sound. Then if you like you can upgrade your amp at a later date.

Edited April 10, 2011 by gjones

[Lozz196]

[quote name='4-string-thing' post='1194967' date='Apr 10 2011, 07:47 PM']No offence to Lozz but I'd have to say that in my experience, nothing could be further from the truth!

I've never used Hartke, but at some time or another I've been forced to use gear by the other three (in various rehearsal rooms and gigs where we've shared gear) and I've never found any of them to sound better than my Ashdown gear (let alone my Acoustic stuff)

I'm with JTUK on this, none of them are a step up (except maybe the high-end Ampegs, and even they don't sound that good to me)

If you're sounding "muffled" I'd be looking at changing your basses pick-ups and/or strings!

I was once given some advice that I believe to be true "an amp is an amp is an amp, but get some good speakers and even a cheap amp will sound good"[/quote]
No offence taken With a query like this, many different opinions will be aired, and hopefully the OP will be able to make an informed choice, based on these responses. Far better we all give opinions, and the OP gets some new gear that really suits.

[lojo]

[quote name='Lozz196' post='1195023' date='Apr 10 2011, 08:33 PM']Far better we all give opinions, and the OP gets some new gear that really suits.[/quote]

Yep, but hope he also doesn't run with opinion until he has had a chance to try and hear for himself, that can be costly in the long run, if the wrong choices are made

[4-string-thing]

It really is all about personal taste, you should try as many amps as you can, preferably with your own bass, and see what sounds best to you....

One mans meat is another mans murder, or something like that!

If you can disconnect the speakers in your combo, you could try the amp section through a variety of cabs to see if that makes a difference, you never know, you may end up keeping the amp and buying a cab instead!

[andy67]

[quote name='Lozz196' post='1194543' date='Apr 10 2011, 01:15 PM']I`d look at Hartke, Ampeg, Peavey or Trace Elliot. All have great sounds, are reliable, and easy within your budget 2nd hand - there are probably a fair few on here at present. The Hartke LH 500 gets a lot of praise on here, and is £300 new - leaves you £300 for a decent 2nd hand cab.

Also, there`s the Marshall MB range. Powerful, great sounding (especially for rock - well it`s Marshall, it would have to be) and reasonably priced.[/quote]


He would actually pick up a new LH500 and AK410 cab for that money! And, big +1 on the Hartke/Ampeg gear.

andy

[thinman]

I had a MAG300 115 combo. Yes it was a bit old school/"muffled". That's not surprising as the cab had no tweeters and it's a bit more top-end that will give clarity, I've used the head from that combo into my BFMs which do have tweeters and the sound is totally different - an amp won't usually colour the sound that much.

One option might be to get a sleeve from Ashdown to house the head in and use it with different cabs. As mentioned above the heads in Ashdown combos are usually standard (though do watch out as the heads in the 2 x 10 combos are made wider than those in the 1 x 15s).

If you want a bit of twang and clarity you will need tweeters and maybe not use 15s!

[andy67]

[quote name='4-string-thing' post='1194967' date='Apr 10 2011, 07:47 PM']No offence to Lozz but I'd have to say that in my experience, nothing could be further from the truth!

I've never used Hartke, but at some time or another I've been forced to use gear by the other three (in various rehearsal rooms and gigs where we've shared gear) and I've never found any of them to sound better than my Ashdown gear (let alone my Acoustic stuff)

I'm with JTUK on this, none of them are a step up (except maybe the high-end Ampegs, and even they don't sound that good to me)

If you're sounding "muffled" I'd be looking at changing your basses pick-ups and/or strings!

I was once given some advice that I believe to be true[i][b] "an amp is an amp is an amp, but get some good speakers and even a cheap amp will sound good"[/b][/i][/quote]

Ohh, ow, ouch!! You have just broken the rule of sound... A good set of speakers will only show up a poor amp for what it is! It is best to balance out a rig by buying the components as close in price as possible. However, if you want a great amp then by all means partner it with a standard set of speakers and it'll sound good but much better with its most efficient partner. Although, a lot of this is determined by the instrument and the player.

andy

Edited April 10, 2011 by andy67

[FayeAutumn]

Well, I can't say I've tried that many different manufacturers, but I am fond of both Trace and Laney. And if I had to buy a new amp, cab, or combo it'd most likely be another Laney. But of course it's all very much a personal thing.

[ThomBassmonkey]

Some things people always seem to overlook with a "shall I buy a head or cab for my upgrade" type conversation are:

Generally your cab on stage is only for monitoring. This is always brought up when people ask how big an amp they need, but always forgotten for this kind of discussion. Therfore a nice bass tone on stage is good, but unless you're being micd (very rare at most types of gigs) then your cab is your own personal monitor and won't affect what people hear out front anyway. i.e. getting a good cab is only beneficial to you.

Getting a head with a good post-EQ DI will let you retain more of your sound and control over your sound than using a DI box before your amp. I played a gig a while ago where I was talking to the engineer, he looked pained when I asked him to DI my amp instead of a box in front, then as soon as I said I was using GK, he was fine with it. Apparently he has so many people use Ashdown DIs that he's had lots of problems with being noisy etc that as soon as someone says they have it he refuses to DI the amp, thus removing their entire rig from the signal chain going out front.

Also if you use two channels (as I do) then DIing before the head won't let you switch channels through the PA. If you're using the DI in the FX loop to avoid the amp's DI but keep channel swaps, then your head could probably do with an upgrade anyway.

If you turn up at a gig that has a cab share, you're going to sound better if you upgraded your head than if you upgraded a cab that you'll then have to leave at home for gigs where you can use another cab.

[4-string-thing]

[quote name='andy67' post='1195098' date='Apr 10 2011, 09:39 PM']Ohh, ow, ouch!! You have just broken the rule of sound... A good set of speakers will only show up a poor amp for what it is! It is best to balance out a rig by buying the components as close in price as possible. However, if you want a great amp then by all means partner it with a standard set of speakers and it'll sound good but much better with its most efficient partner. Although, a lot of this is determined by the instrument and the player.

andy[/quote]

Ha ha...you have just broken "the rule of sound" by declaring that there is such a rule!

And what exactly does "balance out a rig by buying the components as close in price as possible" mean? Are you saying that a cheap amp through cheap speakers will sound as good as an expensive amp through expensive speakers? It probably would to most people's ears, but not for as long, as obviously it would be made down to a price using inferior materials etc. I fail to see what price has got to do with anything. To be fair, the advice given to me was actually in relation to PA speakers, so probably not too relevant to bass cabs, which obviously colour the sound a lot more.

There are many cliches when it comes to bass and guitar sound though, here's a few:

As we all know, 90% of your tone comes from your fingers (if thats true, surely the amp is not really that important as long as it is loud enough?)

You put s**te in, you get s**te out (true in the case of microphones and probably basses as well)

A good bass will make you a better bassist (it may help you become a better bassist, but won't make you one)

Valve amps are better than transistor amps (says who?)

10" speakers are better for bass than 15"

Clearly, these are not right or wrong, it all depends on what suits YOU best, as most people have suggested, the OP should try loads of stuff out and get what sounds best to him (dependent on budget, age, condition of back etc)

[alexclaber]

[quote name='andy67' post='1195098' date='Apr 10 2011, 09:39 PM']Ohh, ow, ouch!! You have just broken the rule of sound... A good set of speakers will only show up a poor amp for what it is! It is best to balance out a rig by buying the components as close in price as possible.[/quote]

The problem with this 'rule' is that there isn't a consistent correlation between price and performance - and the big discrepancy is that the performance:price ratio of electronics has hugely improved over the years (barring valve stuff where limited production, expensive parts like valves and transformers, and older designs and production techniques keep the prices high) whilst the cost of producing electro-mechanical devices like loudspeakers or building and finishing cabinets hasn't come down much.