Mark at Bassdirect

[The Bass Doc]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='1197449' date='Apr 12 2011, 10:15 PM']Honest mistake. Many a slip. Smoke without fire. More in sorrow than in anger. Disproportionate response. Dead men tell no tales. At the end of the day. Let sleeping dogs lie.

If you get my meaning.[/quote]

"And when in Rome, do unto others..... and all who sail in her".

Well said.

[wateroftyne]

As the saying goes: Don't count your chickens until the fat lady comes home to roost.

[Beedster]

[quote name='simon1964' post='1197433' date='Apr 12 2011, 10:10 PM']Funny you should say that, Chris. I had a similar experience with a '64 turning out to be a '65 when the seller took the neck off. They didn't happen to be based on New King's Road, did they?![/quote]

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Doctor J' post='1197450' date='Apr 12 2011, 10:15 PM']But where does the liability stop? Did the guy who brought it in to bassdirect know? He sold it as an 83. Did whoever he bought it off sell it as an 83? Truckstop traded it abroad as an 83, there's a chain of people involved in this. Mark didn't magic this bass out of thin air, it was sold to him as an 83 too by a trusted customer. Maybe, as a retailer, he should've done more to check the total authenticity but he has been misled, intentionally or otherwise, too.

Personally, if I were buying something where there is a premium paid on the basis of age, I would do a little homework first and a thorough inspection before paying money purely for the age of an item. This is a crap situation for all concerned but I don't think this is entirely the shop's fault.[/quote]
One of the parties concerned is a retailer though it's their job to buy/ trade in good stock and sell it accordingly. If you bought a stolen car from a dealer would you take it on the chin if you felt the dealer had been had rather than being a rogue trader?

[ThomBassmonkey]

Although obviously the legalities are important (it shouldn't even come to that stage on a community forum like this IMO), the moral implications are strong too.

Mark has a very good reputation on this forum, a lot of people that wouldn't buy vintage instruments because of this kind of thing may be (possibly past tense if this doesn't get resolved) more inclined to from him because of his reputation. There's no denying that this forum will be bringing him a lot of sales, both because of his reputation and general publicity (people will often talk about it in various threads suggestion others go see what he has in).

Mark's always come across as a very knowledgable guy about basses and very happy to help, in a situation like this, he stands to lose up to a couple of hundred pounds by admitting a mistake and taking the hit, or potentially losing out on hundreds of sales (without even looking at the legal side, where he may be forced to pay up as well as losing the other sales). People shouldn't have to double check everything they're told in shops by anyone, it's never a bad idea because anyone can make mistakes (I honestly doubt that Mark deliberately mis-sold the bass) but what happens after is every bit as what happens before the sale if there's a problem.

If the person that sold the bass to Mark is "a good customer", as Mark said, surely Mark can go back to him and try and work something out at that end too, so he might not even lose as much as he thinks.

Personally, I think Truckstop has potentially (depending on how it works out) had a lucky escape. A LOT of people (me included) never take necks off their basses, if I'd have bought a "vintage" instrument that turned out fake, I'd probably never have known. If I was buying from someone like Mark, I'd have taken his word as fact as he has a good reputation that I don't expect him to take advantage of.

Not pointing fingers, just saying that from a moral standpoint, Mark has a lot to lose. From a business view, he could potentially lose out on a lot of sales if he's deemed untrustworthy by the community (a few people have already said on this thread that they won't be buying from him, so potentially he's already losing sales). Legally, I can't say as I'm not informed, but from what others have said, so long as Truckstop's not had the bass too long, it looks like it'd go in his favour anyway as the bass is clearly not as described.

[stevie]

[quote name='Doctor J' post='1197460' date='Apr 12 2011, 10:20 PM']Because I'd say it's relevant.[/quote]
On what basis?

[voxpop]

[quote name='thedontcarebear' post='1197445' date='Apr 12 2011, 10:14 PM']Shop needs to take the bass back and refund, no idea why anyone would say otherwise.[/quote]


Because he does not have to legally if " to much" time has passed. Though he should for good customer service.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Doctor J' post='1197460' date='Apr 12 2011, 10:20 PM']Because I'd say it's relevant.[/quote]
It's not.

[Doctor J]

[quote name='stevie' post='1197471' date='Apr 12 2011, 10:22 PM']On what basis?[/quote]
On the basis of what I've already posted.

[simon1964]

[quote name='Doctor J' post='1197450' date='Apr 12 2011, 10:15 PM']But where does the liability stop? Did the guy who brought it in to bassdirect know? He sold it as an 83. Did whoever he bought it off sell it as an 83? Truckstop traded it abroad as an 83, there's a chain of people involved in this. Mark didn't magic this bass out of thin air, it was sold to him as an 83 too by a trusted customer. Maybe, as a retailer, he should've done more to check the total authenticity but he has been misled, intentionally or otherwise, too.[/quote]

The point is that, legally, it doesn't matter whether the retailer knows. If he applies the description he is liable for any inaccuracy that description. I'm sure Mark hasn't for a second intentionally misled his customer, but as the seller he is still liable under the act for the inaccurate (albeit innocent) description.

[skankdelvar]

Armchair generals. Law is an ass. My word is my bond. Customer is king. Take it on the chin. All friends round the maypole.

Get it?

[jezzaboy]

Doctor J, the liability must rest with Bassdirect as that is their business. It`s not as if he is a private seller. The onus is on Bassdirect to ensure that the goods he sells are what they say they are. I don`t get the posts stating that Truckstop is somehow partly to blame. He bought the goods in good faith as described by the shop and while I don`t suppose for a second that he was intentionally mislead, the law, as I understand it, is on Truckstops side.

Jez

[RichF]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1197469' date='Apr 12 2011, 10:22 PM']Although obviously the legalities are important (it shouldn't even come to that stage on a community forum like this IMO), the moral implications are strong too.

Mark has a very good reputation on this forum, a lot of people that wouldn't buy vintage instruments because of this kind of thing may be (possibly past tense if this doesn't get resolved) more inclined to from him because of his reputation. There's no denying that this forum will be bringing him a lot of sales, both because of his reputation and general publicity (people will often talk about it in various threads suggestion others go see what he has in).

Mark's always come across as a very knowledgable guy about basses and very happy to help, in a situation like this, he stands to lose up to a couple of hundred pounds by admitting a mistake and taking the hit, or potentially losing out on hundreds of sales (without even looking at the legal side, where he may be forced to pay up as well as losing the other sales). People shouldn't have to double check everything they're told in shops by anyone, it's never a bad idea because anyone can make mistakes (I honestly doubt that Mark deliberately mis-sold the bass) but what happens after is every bit as what happens before the sale if there's a problem.

If the person that sold the bass to Mark is "a good customer", as Mark said, surely Mark can go back to him and try and work something out at that end too, so he might not even lose as much as he thinks.

Personally, I think Truckstop has potentially (depending on how it works out) had a lucky escape. A LOT of people (me included) never take necks off their basses, if I'd have bought a "vintage" instrument that turned out fake, I'd probably never have known. If I was buying from someone like Mark, I'd have taken his word as fact as he has a good reputation that I don't expect him to take advantage of.

Not pointing fingers, just saying that from a moral standpoint, Mark has a lot to lose. From a business view, he could potentially lose out on a lot of sales if he's deemed untrustworthy by the community (a few people have already said on this thread that they won't be buying from him, so potentially he's already losing sales). Legally, I can't say as I'm not informed, but from what others have said, so long as Truckstop's not had the bass too long, it looks like it'd go in his favour anyway as the bass is clearly not as described.[/quote]

all good points. However I am not sure why this is playing out in public. What many people say is a reliable business and individual are taking a battering here without all the facts out there, and quite frankly it's not our business (when tied to an actual single sale, rather than evidence of regular misselling or fraud).

Edited April 12, 2011 by RichardFoggo

[stevie]

[quote name='simon1964' post='1197477' date='Apr 12 2011, 10:26 PM']The point is that, legally, it doesn't matter whether the retailer knows. If he applies the description he is liable for any inaccuracy that description. I'm sure Mark hasn't for a second intentionally misled his customer, but as the seller he is still liable under the act for the inaccurate (albeit innocent) description.[/quote]
In a nutshell, that's it.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Doctor J' post='1197476' date='Apr 12 2011, 10:25 PM']On the basis of what I've already posted.[/quote]
That would be a separate debate for Mark and the mate, Then his mate and his mate, So on and so on but each sale/purchase is a different case.

[Bassman Sam]

I feel that this will, without doubt, damage Mark's reputation whatever the outcome. This should have been settled before becoming public. I hope we all get to see this sorted out quickly.

[yorks5stringer]

and they say there is no such thing as bad publicity...!

[RichF]

[quote name='Bassman Sam' post='1197490' date='Apr 12 2011, 10:31 PM']I feel that this will, without doubt, damage Mark's reputation whatever the outcome. This should have been settled before becoming public. I hope we all get to see this sorted out quickly.[/quote]

totally agree, this should be ended now. I have never bought a thing from Bass Direct and in fact I would have no hesitation is doing so (partly because it didn't take this for me to be hyper cautious in big purchases). However, one disagreement does not make a business a bad one.

Edited April 12, 2011 by RichardFoggo

[bubinga5]

[quote name='voxpop' post='1197472' date='Apr 12 2011, 10:22 PM']Because he does not have to legally if " to much" time has passed. Though he should for good customer service.[/quote]yeah but not that much time has passed so...?? Maybe Mark is sorting this as we speak.... its a no brainer...not as advertised..

ive never heard any other probs with Marks service, but surely (especially with vintage instruments) its the shops responsibility to check authenticity..not thoroughly is just asking for trouble..
on damaging his rep, apart from his erm..post... i feel this is down to how he responds to this situation....maybe damage limitation..

i gotta say i would still buy from him...

Edited April 12, 2011 by bubinga5

[Sibob]

Indeed, I don't know, but I would suggest the lack of input from parties on both sides suggests they may be chatting, lets hope so.
Bassdirects main business seems to be new gear, as opposed to vintage instruments.....I would hope people would make their purchases based on that fact.

Si

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='RichardFoggo' post='1197483' date='Apr 12 2011, 10:27 PM']all good points. However I am not sure why this is playing out in public. What many people say is a reliable business and individual are taking a battering here without all the facts out there, and quite frankly it's not our business (when tied to an actual single sale, rather than evidence of regular misselling or fraud).[/quote]
No one is bashing Mark nor suggesting he is a fraudulent seller the comments are no different to commenting on customer service by other shops or manufacturers (see the Ampeg oh dear thread).

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='RichardFoggo' post='1197483' date='Apr 12 2011, 10:27 PM']all good points. However I am not sure why this is playing out in public. What many people say is a reliable business and individual are taking a battering here without all the facts out there, and quite frankly it's not our business (when tied to an actual single sale, rather than evidence of regular misselling or fraud).[/quote]

With all due respect, I completely disagree.

Mark is no different to other retailers, places like GAK (rightly IMO) take a pounding because of various reasons, BassDirect shouldn't get any special treatment. As I said in my last post, Mark undoubtedly does well out of his reputation on this forum, that's all the more reason that we should get a completely unbiased review of how he conducts business.

I agree that it should've been sorted out in private before coming to light publically, but it obviously wasn't and Truckstop posted his case quite factually without aimless flaming or accusations so it's simply presenting the facts. If it was resolved, he wouldn't have felt the need to post here about it.

The fact is that if people aren't public about their experiences, other people don't know if they've had the same problems. There's been posts on here before about BC members that are awkward to trade with (privately), then when someone's posted bad feedback, they've had people PM them saying they've experienced the same thing. It's only fair that people are presented as many facts as possible about where they buy (whether professionally or privately) before they make a choice.

[Waldo]

Only bothering to look at the date on the neck is seriously amateur stuff, I find it frankly unbelieveable that a shop like this didn't check the provenance of a 'vintage' peice of kit before buying/selling it.

[skej21]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1197512' date='Apr 12 2011, 10:42 PM']No one is bashing Mark nor suggesting he is a fraudulent seller the comments are no different to commenting on customer service by other shops or manufacturers (see the Ampeg oh dear thread).[/quote]

Yup. The thing is, we all know that if Bassdirect had dealt with this in the way the majority of people have suggested, it is pretty likely that Truckstop would have been on here singing their praises and getting them more customers/sales/money.

In dealing with it the wrong way, they are likely to have done the opposite with some people.

Just silly IMO

[bubinga5]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1197512' date='Apr 12 2011, 10:42 PM']No one is bashing Mark nor suggesting he is a fraudulent seller the comments are no different to commenting on customer service by other shops or manufacturers (see the Ampeg oh dear thread).[/quote]
+1 it seems all the facts have been settled by both sides.. as customers we are entitled to talk openly about the situation...a private sale may be different..