skankdelvar Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 I suppose it's only fair that Mr Higginbotham protect his investment, however he may have erred on this occasion. For example, here's a tune supposedly penned by that notorous magpie Mr Noel Gallagher. I wonder whence he drew inspiration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 [quote name='skankdelvar' post='1199624' date='Apr 14 2011, 05:09 PM']I suppose it's only fair that Mr Higginbotham protect his investment, however he may have erred on this occasion. For example, here's a tune supposedly penned by that notorous magpie Mr Noel Gallagher. I wonder whence he drew inspiration?[/quote] I hope you're not showing disrespect to Mr Gallagher. He is well thought of and a leading member of the Musical Green Movement and in this capacity done his best for recycling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 (edited) [quote name='JTUK' post='1199489' date='Apr 14 2011, 02:59 PM']Take it off the CD.. as a song you aren't missing much.[/quote] Actually I think it's a cracking, crowd pleasing, song. (cue heated debate about Mustang Sally) Edited April 14, 2011 by Count Bassy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 [quote name='Marvin' post='1199644' date='Apr 14 2011, 05:24 PM']He is well thought of and a leading member of the Musical Green Movement and in this capacity done his best for recycling. [/quote] Considering 'Step Out', is it any Wonder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Another one here that used to do that song, Da daa da daa da daa der de daa...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinynorman Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Does a cease and desist email have any legal force? Shouldn't it be on company headed paper? With a real signature? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 [quote name='spinynorman' post='1199660' date='Apr 14 2011, 05:33 PM']Does a cease and desist email have any legal force? Shouldn't it be on company headed paper? With a real signature?[/quote] Technically, anyone can issue such a request. Spinynorman, I ask that you cease and desist posting on Basschat. See? That easy. It's a request; a pre-amble to some additional action, assumedly with a basis in law and legal right, which would enforce the request. The first part is easy; the second part is more contentious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wylie Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 I'm not sure 'recording to sell' is a relevant point here. If the outfit is legit, and the song is theirs, what they're saying is that the tune can't be recorded without permission. In the US, if you play someone's song in a bar (for example), you don't have to pay but the bar owner does. But if you record someone's copyrighted song, you are bound by law to pay for it. Our trio recorded a CD and had to pay for several songs, but got by rather cheaply because most of the tunes were traditionals and didn't require a payment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonsmith Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Tommy Tucker was born Robert Higginbotham, so this looks like a relative is involved. If the activity is in the UK, isn't it governed by UK law? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodaxe Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 As jonsmith has said, Tommy Tucker's real name was Robert Higginbotham, & as I understand it Richard is his son. As far as I'm aware, Mr H Jr. believes he has some claim to the rights of HHS & presumably sees his father's work as some kind of inheritance. One of the blues jams I go to had this very same issue last year - probably brought about by them posting an mp3 of the offending tune on their website & making it available for download. They've since removed all instances of the alleged song & it's become a 'banned' tune on the night. I'll make a few enquiries & see if there was any further correspondence. Whilst I suspect that Mr H is what's known in the trade as a 'vexatious litigant' I'd personally play safe & bin it for evermore. Substitute a soundalike such as 'Memphis Tennessee' or this equally overegged old chestnut: Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 It will serve them right if no one plays the song anymore and it dissapears down the plughole. That will be a result for him with regards to royalties as a popular song is no longer known or popular. foot gun, hole..!! It is a throwaway tune anyway... nobody will miss it..there are hundreds of like minded ditties like that to replace it with.. It is hardly a standout classic, IMO. Humour them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkmaster Posted April 15, 2011 Author Share Posted April 15, 2011 Thanks everyone for your thoughts - which has proved one thing... You reply quicker than the MU! The most interesting part of the whole piece for me is this... [quote name='BigRedX' post='1199153' date='Apr 14 2011, 10:40 AM']From my understanding the problem has arisen because the sender of the letter thinks that you are passing off your cover (you are doing it as a cover and not as a derivative work? - have you changed the lyrics at all?) as an original work because the title is different.[/quote] From (fading) memory, I don't think we have ever used the altered title that the cease and disist email suggest we have. (Oh and the lyrics do have a tendancy to change on every rendition as our singer suffers with alcohol and jazz cigarette induced brain fade). I'm itching to contact them (him) back and say - prove you're the publisher and demonstrate in what way we've infringed their copyright! But I'll wait to hear what the MU say and keep you posted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodaxe Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 [quote name='Funkmaster' post='1200227' date='Apr 15 2011, 08:09 AM']I'm itching to contact them (him) back and say - prove you're the publisher and demonstrate in what way we've infringed their copyright! But I'll wait to hear what the MU say and keep you posted![/quote] I'd be inclined to do just that very thing. Nosing around I found this site: [url="http://themusicologist.wordpress.com/2008/06/10/musicology-169/"]http://themusicologist.wordpress.com/2008/...musicology-169/[/url] At the bottom of the page are a number of comments, including a couple from our man... I won't quote them in full, but here's a few choice bits: [quote]I wish we were paid for the popularity of the song, we would be millionaires. However, time has been cruel to his offspring, where his music is concerned.[/quote] Fair enough, plenty of artists have suffered less than fair contracts, especially when viewd in hindsight. He goes on... [quote]... however, Chess never has acknowledged to the family their appreciation of our father Tommy Tucker aka Robert Higginbotham’s contribution to the Chess family or the music industry in general.[/quote] Well, if Chess had TT stitched up like a kipper with a typical 50s/60s contract, them's the breaks mate. The Chess catalogue is now owned by UMG which also owns BMG and Geffen. [quote]... Paul McCartney’s former brother in law, John Eastman administers a 62.5% publisher share of the song. However, they have not been kind to our mother or brothers where royalties are concerned and we are now attempting to get back royalties from them.[/quote] As I read it (& I'm not a lawyer, nor have I ever played one on TV)... UMG own Chess, BMG are UMG's publishing wing, and one of the Eastman's (of Kodak fame) has a substantial stake in it. Whether the Higginbothams have any legal rights to it at all looks possibly murky (I don't begrudge them their moral rights to it one little bit though). Might be worth a casual enquiry to BMG under the guise of re-recording it & seeing what their response is. OTOH, I quite like JTUK's suggestion that the alleged song is best left to die. God knows we're not short of 12 Bar Blues tunes to cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Bloodaxe has performed a valuable service in uncovering further details. Much thanks. Well, this puts a different complexion on matters. Old School record companies were notorious for their wily ways and I'm sure many would sympathise with Mr Higginbotham's predicament. Particularly if he is in dealings with Bertelsmann Music Group (BMG), a characteristically monolithic German operation. It is ironic that he finds himself on the opposite side of the table to Mr Eastman, whose relative by marriage - pussy-whipped national treasure Sir P Macca - famously spent so much time and money seeking to reacquire ownership of his own songs. Hi Heel Sneekers is a charming little song, replete with brio and Saturday night feel. Mr Higginbotham is the little guy in all of this. Subject to any deliberations from the MU, it might be worthwhile simply writing to explain that it's just a cover version, that UK law has been observed and that the OP is quite incidentally prepared to make a donation to a charity of choice as a (non-binding) token of respect for the deceased Mr Higginbotham Senior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 A copyright holder (or claimant) needs to issue a cease and desist letter when a possible infringement comes to their attention, otherwise they are exposed to the defence that the work is in the public domain. In other words, rights have to be claimed or they lapse. Whether anybody is interested in following up with a lawsuit is down to how deep are their pockets and how deep they think yours might be. The bottom line though is that you don't have a right to record without permission, although you do have a right to play the work live (via prs). It doesn't matter whether you're being accused of unlicensed recording or recording a plagiarised version, the recording part is what matters. Write back questioning his rights as copyright owner if you like. Otherwise tell him there are no more copies of the CD in existence, it was never sold, had a limited distribution to promoters and won't be recorded again - end of story or see ya in court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 (edited) You could make a great Viz cartoon character out of this: 'Tommy Tucker's brother - he's a litigious f*****r!' Edited April 15, 2011 by wateroftyne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 [quote name='neepheid' post='1199182' date='Apr 14 2011, 11:09 AM']Say that you'll cease and desist when they learn to spell.[/quote] +100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 I think Bloodaxe has well and truly hit the nail on the head here. Mr Higginbotham seems to have been quite active on various blogs and has [url="http://thedeletebin.com/2008/11/30/rb-songwriter-tommy-tucker-performs-his-smash-hi-heel-sneakers/"]commented[/url] "Robert Higginbotham/Tommy Tucker estate has been omitted from the payment process for his copyrighted works and the copyright laws seem to support those activities with Congress’ approval….." Although I feel for the guy I've got to wonder why he's issuing cease and desist letters when he seems to know he has no financial stake in the royalties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkmaster Posted April 22, 2011 Author Share Posted April 22, 2011 Hello again all... The advice from the Musician's Union was basically this... [i]The letter appears to be giving you an opportunity to promise that you won’t do it again and to confirm any remaining infringing (including digital) copies have been destroyed. We advice you to respond by the given date confirming that this is the case and hope that is an end to it. If you didn’t make anything from the recording and have no money to pay damages, you could add that (if it is true), as that may put DEPAG off pursuing this any further. [/i] So I've taken that advice and have said to Mr Higginbotham [i] I confirm that The Welsh T Band have ceased all use of the work derived from the Work, and no copies, including electronic copies, digital copies and physical copies of same now exist and that we will desist from this or any other infringement of your rights in the future.[/i] Let's see what happens - I'll let you know if I hear anything further. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Stuff like this could ruin the covers band scene and these lesser known bands material will all get forgotten in years to come. How many people get asked at gigs what was that second song you did or similar after the gig? How many of them music lovers then look up the legit version on you tube or iTunes etc? Very silly unless a major act wants to release a proper profit making cover of something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cetera Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 I reckon the MU have got this wrong. You have every right to perform this song live as long as it is reported via PRS. As long as you're not selling physical product with the track on they have NO grounds to stop you playing it.... I'd tell them to go jump meself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soliloquy Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 I have never heard of Little Tommy Tucker (didn't he stand in the corner doing something with his thumb ?). I have never heard of Justin Beiber either though, as mentioned in another thread . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalMan Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Slightly different scenario, but we have over the years covered material by lesser known bands, most recently a couple of songs by a band called [url="http://www.facebook.com/streetlegalnorway"]Street Legal[/url], and I tend to search out their FB or MySpace page(s), add as friends/like and say BTW we are covering "[i]xxxxx[/i]". General response has been "Cool...got any videos?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenochrome Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 If you've never [i]sold[/i] any copies of the CD, and you play the song at PRS licensed venues, then I really don't think you've done anything wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy67 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 (edited) Didn't think you were selling any of it??? Again to echo that said by others, providing you have been playing in venues who hold a current PRS license and you are not selling a. n. others copyright work, then your band cannot be infringing upon their copyright for performing their song live. Andy Edited April 26, 2011 by andy67 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.