Lightweight rig arrived!

[eude]

Wow!
Looks amazing dude!
For me, personally, I'd have gone with 2 X 1x12 cabs, but each to their own

Congrats, and looking forward to here how you get on gigging with it!

Eude

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='eude' post='1203367' date='Apr 18 2011, 10:43 AM']Wow!
Looks amazing dude!
For me, personally, I'd have gone with 2 X 1x12 cabs, but each to their own

Congrats, and looking forward to here how you get on gigging with it!

Eude[/quote]

I very nearly did, but I figured that the differences (size, weight, price) weren't enough to make it worth going with two 1x12s, I'd rather have two then if something happens to one cab, it's still a capable rig. There won't be many gigs where I'd only need 1 1x12, so if anything it's more convenient to only have to take one 2x12 cab than take 2 1x12s anyway.

We're going on tour over the next couple of weeks, I'm going to see how this goes at rehearsal tomorrow before I decide whether or not I'm going to make the effort with my RBH cabs (my MB and 2001 heads will both be coming either way). There'll be enough people with us to share the effort of the big rig, but we'll all be sick of it after moving it around almost every night for two weeks.

Edited April 18, 2011 by ThomBassmonkey

[Bassmurf]

lovely set up there, Thom!*

I'm thinking about getting the one down from the Fusion, which I think is the MB500 as I'm fed up of trying of get a decent sound out of my Ashdown (and because my back's been giving me gip for a few months now!)


*edited due to flippin' iPad spellcheck!

Edited April 18, 2011 by Bassmurf

[ThomBassmonkey]

Strictly speaking, the MB500 isn't "the one down" from the Fusion, they're very similar, just the Fusion has the valve pre, the MB500 is solid state. IIRC the Fusion has an extra option or two (like the limiter, I don't think the 500 has) but they're very similar sounding amps with mostly the same controls.

I don't like Ashdowns, I've never heard one that I haven't thought was either wooly or thin and obviously I'm a huge GK fanboy so if I were you, I wouldn't even be thinking about moving from Ashdown to GK, mostly because I'd already have a GK in my posession and the Ashdown sold. Especially if your back's giving you grief, this rig weighs a total of (according to GK's site) about 125lbs. I'd feel easily confident gigging with one cab and the head at about 65lbs, which isn't very much for such a powerful and versatile beast.

[Bassmurf]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1203418' date='Apr 18 2011, 11:29 AM']Strictly speaking, the MB500 isn't "the one down" from the Fusion, they're very similar, just the Fusion has the valve pre, the MB500 is solid state. IIRC the Fusion has an extra option or two (like the limiter, I don't think the 500 has) but they're very similar sounding amps with mostly the same controls.

I don't like Ashdowns, I've never heard one that I haven't thought was either wooly or thin and obviously I'm a huge GK fanboy so if I were you, I wouldn't even be thinking about moving from Ashdown to GK, mostly because I'd already have a GK in my posession and the Ashdown sold. Especially if your back's giving you grief, this rig weighs a total of (according to GK's site) about 125lbs. I'd feel easily confident gigging with one cab and the head at about 65lbs, which isn't very much for such a powerful and versatile beast.[/quote]

Ah, so the difference is mainly the Fusion has the valve pre...hmmm, interesting.

Lol, yes I've struggled in the five years I've had the Ashdown to get a usuable sound (and in that time I've been in a variety of bands which included one guitar, two guitars, two guitars and keyboard...etc) and wooly and undefined is definitely the words I'd use. Unfortunately I'd bought it on the assumption that because of the connection with them being some of the original engineers from Trace Elliot that their amps sounded similar...doh!
Always liked the sound of GK amps mainly because of growing up listening to the rock/metal guys in the early '90's like Duff, Flea,Eddie Jackson (Queensryche) etc

Edited April 18, 2011 by Bassmurf

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='Bassmurf' post='1203440' date='Apr 18 2011, 11:48 AM']Ah, so the difference is mainly the Fusion has the valve pre...hmmm, interesting.

Lol, yes I've struggled in the five years I've had the Ashdown to get a usuable sound (and in that time I've been in a variety of bands which included one guitar, two guitars, two guitars and keyboard...etc) and wooly and undefined is definitely the words I'd use. Unfortunately I'd bought it on the assumption that because of the connection with them being some of the original engineers from Trace Elliot that their amps sounded similar...doh!
Always liked the sound of GK amps mainly because of growing up listening to the rock/metal guys in the early '90's like Duff, Flea,Eddie Jackson (Queensryche) etc[/quote]


Yeah, off the top of my head that's the only difference except maybe the limiter and one or two of the other minor options that are on top of the fusion (can't remember if the 500 has a contour frequency select). The front panel is the same though (apart from the 500 being grey and fusion black of course). Both have the same gain and volume A and B which are footswitchable, the contour control, 4 band EQ, 500w at 4Ohms, headphone/line out socket etc.

Yeah, I've heard that connection before too, I quite liked the old Traces but never the Ashdowns. To be fair, most I've played through have been in rehearsal rooms so well used, but even the ones I've heard bands use live have never quite had the definition to cut through in mixes. Funnily enough, I'd never really heard of GK before I tried one out in a reheasal room a couple of years ago (so that was probably well used too in all fairness), instantly fell in love with it and started saving straight away. In the last year and a half I've had 3 heads (700RB-II, 2001RB-II and now the MB Fusion) and 6 cabs (two of each: 210RBH, 410RBH and NEO212s) and they've all been stunning. Really can't wait to unleash this one at practice tomorrow.

Of course it's all horses for courses, someone who likes an uber clean tone probably won't get on with GKs, but for me the mix of definition, growl and fatness has me smitten!

[Bassmurf]

Looks like I'll have to make a visit to GAK this sat to try some out!

[stingrayPete1977]

Looks cool mate I knew you would be happy enough if needed with just one 2x12. I have only got one but I'm going to get a 1x12 for very small gigs then I will have a 1x10 a 1x12 and a 2x12 to cover almost anything all using the same head.

[Merton]

Me wanty that MB Fusion, looks awesome!

[ThomBassmonkey]

It sounds as good as it looks. I've just plugged my 2001 into one of the 212s and the MB into the other to directly A/B them, they both sound brilliant. I think the 2001 is a little better IMO, but with the difference in weight and size, I definitely won't be mourning the gigs that I can't justify the extra hassle for.

Comparing the NEO212s to the 410RBH (I'm doing the 2001 into the 410RBH by memory compared to the 2001 into the Neos): The neos seem to have a smoother more scooped sound. It sounds a lot cleaner than the RBHs but still very fat sounding, lots of high end too, still very defined like the RBHs though but quite a different voicing. I can't put that down to whether it's the size or neodynium that makes more of the difference though. The RBHs are pure rumble. Lots of low end and natural growl but still very defined.

Comparing the 2001 and MB Fusion (both through the Neos): The Fusion again sounds naturally more hi-fi, playing about with the controls it seems to be much more versatile than the 2001. I could get the classic GK style growly fat tones out of it, but twiddle a few knobs and it could do Fieldy (from Korn) clack right through to very smooth jazzy tones. I think it's like the Thumb and Streamer to Warwick (as covered in a previous thread), the RB is the Thumb: GK's trademark sound, it does it perfectly and it's very versatile tonally, but whatever you do it will always sound like an RB head/Thumb bass. The MB Fusion still has that classic trademark tone, like the Streamer, but it's signature sound is reigned in a bit to give it much more versatility.

Overall impression of rig vs rig is that the 2001/RBH setup is classic GK, it's pure fat tone and growl. I can't fault it, it's why I love the amps, they have all the beef and grit to carry a song while the guitarist's off w***ing up the neck but they still have enough presence and clarity that if you do a run in a heavy section of a song, it's not lost and still clear with no mud.

The MB Fusion/Neos is much more versatile, it's naturally cleaner but thanks to the head having the gain and volume A and B, you can dial in the grit as you need. Thanks to the deep switch on top (note I usually hate deep switches, not so in this case as it's not any kind of octaver, purely EQ) you can get it to do those low growls that GK are known for. They're much more versatile beasts though, going from very clean smooth tones right through to full on distortion.

As said above, I do slightly prefer the 2001 to the MB Fusion, but given the differences (price, size, weight, power, the 2001 has 2 channels wheras the MB Fuses uses two gain structures with one channel meaning only one EQ) I don't think it has a worse sound, per se, I just prefer the classic GK fat growl. I'd have no problems taking it head to head (pun not intended) against any of the other class D heads other companies are bringing out and to be honest, I think my preference for it comes down to opinion as it does sound fantastic. I now have the option of taking either to gigs and I honestly can't see me using the 2001 for most gigs, I'm amazed at how well this little thing does.

I'll probably do another shorter update tomorrow after band practice so I can hear it at proper volume (I cranked it a bit when I was comparing them earlier but it's still not the same as a band mix). I'm amazed by this little beasty though. It's small (annoyingly the head's *just* too big to go in my gig bag, it can still go in my backpack with my leads though), light (I can carry the cabs in 1 hand without straining myself) and so capable. Definitely going to save my back a lot of pain in day to day use.

[Bassmonkey]

Must be a Monkey thing Thom, I recently shrunk my Ampeg mega rig to the Orange Bass Terror and SP212 cab. I will never go back. They fit in my boot with the rest of my gear (guitars on back seat though) but at least I can get passangers in now, used to be cab on front seat, rest across back and in boot. Your rig looks fab though. Enjoy

[ThomBassmonkey]

Don't get me wrong, this isn't a replacement for my big rig. I love that thing and can't see me ever getting rid of it. It's just a pain (literally) to shift around and although it sounds amazing, it's pointless taking something so heavy everywhere with me when there's great lightweight options available. Whenever it's convenient (and more to the point, I can be arsed) I'll still be busting out the 1080w 8x10 monster.

One day I want to do this (as posted in my GK porn thread):

[stingrayPete1977]

I think some class D haters should start listening to guys like you that clearly have the big gear and enjoy it but appreciate that the margin is small between big and little heads now. It's really just a personal taste issue more than anything else. Big tour then why not but small venue with not much room or parking etc they really are cool. How many gigs have we all done where it would be nice to of taken your head along with basses to the local pub while other (totally unknown) bands and friends are milling about? Now you can

[chriswilliams666]

Nice setup Thom! Someone with more GK than me! I should of been on commission after connecting you and Polar! haha.

I'm pretty sure your 2001rb can power all 4 of your cabs? Might be something to try!


[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1204079' date='Apr 18 2011, 08:20 PM']Don't get me wrong, this isn't a replacement for my big rig. I love that thing and can't see me ever getting rid of it. It's just a pain (literally) to shift around and although it sounds amazing, it's pointless taking something so heavy everywhere with me when there's great lightweight options available. Whenever it's convenient (and more to the point, I can be arsed) I'll still be busting out the 1080w 8x10 monster.

One day I want to do this (as posted in my GK porn thread):



[/quote]

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='chriswilliams666' post='1204262' date='Apr 18 2011, 11:00 PM']Nice setup Thom! Someone with more GK than me! I should of been on commission after connecting you and Polar! haha.

I'm pretty sure your 2001rb can power all 4 of your cabs? Might be something to try! [/quote]

Why settle for the 1080w powering the 4 cabs? The MB Fusion has a line out on the back, I can use that to power the 12s and then take the line to the 2001 to power the 10s.

[ThomBassmonkey]

After using this in practice the verdict is that it's amazing.

I managed to carry in my bass, head, leads bag and one cab in one trip (wasn't particularly convenient but I had the head loose and hadn't properly loaded myself up if I'm honest), then the 2nd cab in the next trip was a doddle on it's own.

The sound was FANTASTIC. I had my first outing with my new Sandberg MM5 at the same time, so I can't particularly put it down to one or the other but it was probably the best I've sounded in a long time. The overall tone was very articulate and clear without losing any of the fatness or punch that I love about GK gear. The sound may have been slightly thinner in the mids, but it gave it a different flavour instead of being better or worse.

For a better idea, our guitarist uses a Mesa combo which is very mid heavy. I stopped using my Thumb because tonally we were all mids in the mix and it muddied things. After switching to my Sandberg JJ5, my 2001/RBH rig seems to have a very wide frequency range, though still very focused in the lows giving it a lot of presence throughout and making it feel like it powers it's way through the mix without ever being overpowering. The MB/Neo rig is far more subtle, it feels like it fits around the Mesa perfectly. It sounds more scooped, it's not as present in the mids as the 2001/RBH so it gives the overall band sound a much more rounded feel. Wheras the Mesa and 2001/RBH felt very much like the bass was the foundations of the music and the guitars sat on top, the MB/Neo sounds more like they're working together.

I've probably not painted a very good picture of the 2001/RBH there It sounds brilliant in the mix, it doesn't overpower or clash with anything, they're simply very different amps and though they both have the classic GK growl, they use it in VERY different ways. Of course, like I say, I've only practiced using a new bass with the new amp, so I expect quite a bit of it is down to the new bass too. I'll have to experiment more.

[ThomBassmonkey]

Another update after a few gigs and more experience with it..

I think I've made a mistake!

It's too good, I've taken it on tour because the cabs are slightly smaller and much lighter so for convenience and because they're new toys, I brought them. I brought both heads (2001 and the MB Fusion) though, the head's smaller and it made sense to bring both in case something happens. I've not used my 2001 yet. The MB is so much easier to move about, I have it in a laptop case so I can sling it over my shoulder and it has some protection.

It sounds fantastic, I've still not properly used it with my JJ, but the MM and new rig are awesome, I didn't have my earplugs in last night (long story short: I left my earplugs in my other trousers somewhere at the bottom of the van) so I could properly judge the tone and it was stunning. The whole mix really sounded very clear, no muddyness (obviously that's partially to do with the sound at the venue, but this fitted perfectly around the drums and mesa guitar amp while we were sound checking). I still need to get a bit more used to dialling in the volume for the clean as with the 2001 it was a fat and punchy sound and powered through, with this though it really needs to be adjusted to fit with the mix. I noticed that if I set the clean slightly quieter than the OD, once in the mix the fatness of the OD pushes it through the mix but the natural scoop of the cleaner channel makes it sink back a bit so it needs to be boosted a bit above the OD when solo (though not enough to sound odd in solod bits).

I think Pete's right, people that don't like class D because they're class D need to test them out properly, I wasn't expecting so much from this. I was expecting it to be good (it is GK's top class D amp after all) but I was expecting it to be lacking something that the huge and heavy 2001 has, it sounds very different but great in it's own right. As I said above, I've been gigging it over the 2001 when I've had both with me because they both sound equally good and the MB Fusion is far more convenient. Obviously if you like the sound of your big amp, it doesn't mean you're going to like the sound of a small amp, but that's only the same as you might not like the sound of another big amp.

Honestly, if you're thinking about going for a smaller amp but aren't sure how it'll handle gigging, go for it. I know there's lots of people gigging LMKs and I've seen a few MB500s around, not to mention the smaller Genz heads and some people are gigging even smaller, Merton has an MB200 that he seems to be getting on with well for example. The convenience you get from these little heads really can't be argued with and they're definitely not lacking tone or presence.

[Merton]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1210250' date='Apr 24 2011, 07:08 PM']Merton has an MB200 that he seems to be getting on with well for example. The convenience you get from these little heads really can't be argued with and they're definitely not lacking tone or presence.[/quote]
Damn right, loving it. Got a gig in a couple of weeks which is screaming out for it to be used instead of my Eden WT550, can't wait to try it Might do a proper A/B test actually, Eden vs GK, just fo' shits and giggles

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='Merton' post='1210261' date='Apr 24 2011, 07:25 PM']Damn right, loving it. Got a gig in a couple of weeks which is screaming out for it to be used instead of my Eden WT550, can't wait to try it Might do a proper A/B test actually, Eden vs GK, just fo' shits and giggles [/quote]

I'd love to hear how that goes! I've said it before, but I'm seriously tempted to get an MB200. They're so tiny and light, it could be in my gig bag and forgotten about until something goes wrong and I need a spare head.

[AttitudeCastle]

Don't tell us your gonna be selling your BIG rig now?

Or are you just gonna keep it for studio/Video/Statium work?

[Superbass]

Hey guys, decent thread this. Just wondering if you could offer me some advice. I want to get a Genz Benz Streamliner 600 and am thinking about pairing two Gallien Krueger Neo cabs with it. At the moment i am thinking about getting the 1 x 15 and the 2 x 10 and running them parallel. Should mean i get 300w each out of them. However, i was wondering whether i should be getting a 2 x 12 neo. It would have to be 8 0hm as i would still probably get the 15" aswell. Anyway, to cut a long story short, would the 375w the GB amp puts out at 8ohm be enough for the 2 x 12 as a stand alone cab in small/mid size venues?

Edited April 25, 2011 by Superbass

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Superbass' post='1210730' date='Apr 25 2011, 11:26 AM']Hey guys, decent thread this. Just wondering if you could offer me some advice. I want to get a Genz Benz Streamliner 600 and am thinking about pairing two Gallien Krueger Neo cabs with it. At the moment i am thinking about getting the 1 x 15 and the 2 x 10 and running them parallel. Should mean i get 300w each out of them. However, i was wondering whether i should be getting a 2 x 12 neo. It would have to be 8 0hm as i would still probably get the 15" aswell. Anyway, to cut a long story short, would the 375w the GB amp puts out at 8ohm be enough for the 2 x 12 as a stand alone cab in small/mid size venues?[/quote]

I think it would be fine mate when its at 600watt mate its so loud in an actual loud sense I have been playing for years with access to lots of great gear and its leaves me wanting for nothing. I dont think you would even need the 15" TBH, Im a lover of 15"'s but with the 4ohm 600w matched Genz Neo 2x12T its got everything you need (see how much love for the Genz Neox there is on BC for a start) I would ditch the other cabs and just go for the same setup as me but with a streamliner (try a shuttle at the same time though as the streamliner isnt a replacement its an aswel as head,you may prefer the shuttle?) Does anyone do the same deal as BassDirect for the 600 head and 2x12 with the Genz head carry bag but with a streamliner head instead? Then get an 8 ohm 2x10 for smaller gigs at a later date, Less gear to keep around but with more poke

[ThomBassmonkey]

Don't worry, big rig is going NOWHERE. I still love that rig, it has a different sound to the "mini" rig, so it'll get used for, as you say, studio, videos and stadiums.

Superbass, I don't think you'll struggle whether you go for the 2x10+1x15 or 2x12+1x15, I'd easily feel confident gigging one of my 2x12 cabs for most gigs (the MB Fusion puts out 350w at 8ohms). I used to gig regularly with a 700RB-II head and a single 210RBH, so I'd bet that the neo210 would be a capable cabinet on it's own too.

Just because you're getting a GB head, there's really no need to get matching cabs, if you like the sound of the GKs (I'm guessing there's a reason you're asking about them rather than about the NeoX cabs) then you won't lose anything by going with differently branded cabs to your head. You should try out as many combinations of heads and cabs as possible then decide.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1210859' date='Apr 25 2011, 01:45 PM']Just because you're getting a GB head, there's really no need to get matching cabs, if you like the sound of the GKs (I'm guessing there's a reason you're asking about them rather than about the NeoX cabs) then you won't lose anything by going with differently branded cabs to your head. You should try out as many combinations of heads and cabs as possible then decide. [/quote]

+1 try and mix them all up as much as possible and see what works for you, This coming from a GK slag and a GB slag! Dont do as we do do as we say I think is what we are saying, Haha.

[Superbass]

LMAO, sweet guys, cheers for the great advice. i guess it all comes down to preference in the end. I think a trip out of Wales to Bass Direct or Bass Merchant is in order. Was hoping to avoid the fuel costs but i think given that im probably going to spend well over a grand then i better not just take a gamble. Bet you im either going to come away with GK or GB cabs though!