Guitarists who don't know what they are playing

[leonshelley01]

Back to the OP. Whether you read music or not isn't the point. The point was about a fundamental lack of knowledge about their instrument and a basic music theory.

I don't read music, but have a reasonable grasp of theory and understand chords, scales and modes. If a fellow band member cannot name the chord he is playing (or alternatively work it out), how can they communicate to the other members how the song goes? And how can I tell him/her what to play next, if they don't understand the fretboard? I would consider these to be frustrations and time consuming.

I think it comes back to the need to communicate within a group of musicians. If tab works for you, that's great. If written staves help, use 'em. If leaning the tune by ear and practice is your bag, more power to your elbow. But if the guitarist and you as the bass player cannot relay basic information to each other, there is a problem.

[Bilbo]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1206070' date='Apr 20 2011, 04:40 PM']I assumed that as a big proponent of notation and how it makes you a better musician you would have atleast looked into other forms of communication to improve your worth as a musician.[/quote]

That post was not designed to contribute constructively to the debate but to attack the credentials of those with whom you disagree.

[phil.i.stein]

Johnston has illustrated a very important point there.

by assuming that we all should 'speak the same language' (in a musical context) is to be ignorant towards others, and a loss to musical culture.

after all, how did music evolve in the first place ? by listening, i'd venture.

the future of music isn't in staves. (or even in fretted instruments)

Edited April 20, 2011 by phil.i.stein

[Dave Vader]

All very nice, but what's the best scale for METAL!!!!!
\m/

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1206083' date='Apr 20 2011, 04:51 PM']That post was not designed to contribute constructively to the debate but to attack the credentials of those with whom you disagree.[/quote]
To be fair Bilbo, you're pretty adept at that yourself.

[Dave Vader]

must not repeat myself, double posted, seems ironic.

Edited April 20, 2011 by Dave Vader

[Truckstop]

Chug Chug Chug?

Truckstop

[Bilbo]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='1206087' date='Apr 20 2011, 04:52 PM']To be fair Bilbo, you're pretty adept at that yourself.[/quote]

When?

[phil.i.stein]

[quote name='Dave Vader' post='1206085' date='Apr 20 2011, 04:51 PM']All very nice, but what's the best scale for METAL!!!!!
\m/
[/quote]
C flat harmonic minor. duh..

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1206095' date='Apr 20 2011, 04:56 PM']When?[/quote]
In threads like this, usually.

[Doddy]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1206070' date='Apr 20 2011, 04:40 PM']I assumed that as a big proponent of notation and how it makes you a better musician you would have atleast looked into other forms of communication to improve your worth as a musician.[/quote]

The thing with a lot of the various notations is that although they all have their idiosyncrasies,there are a lot of similarities
too. They are usually based around some form of solfege or number system. Even in an Indian system like svar lippi it is
basically a series of symbols that represent timing and notes,in much the same was as western notation is.


[quote name='Dave Vader' post='1206085' date='Apr 20 2011, 04:51 PM']All very nice, but what's the best scale for METAL!!!!!
\m/
[/quote]

The Metal scale obviously.......As long as its detuned of course

[BigRedX]

[quote name='fatback' post='1206029' date='Apr 20 2011, 04:10 PM']Ever been so frustrated at your own limitations that you almost (or do) give up? I'll bet it's not because your fingers won't go fast enough.[/quote]
Actually it's always because my fingers won't do what I can hear in my head.

Being able to read is a fantastic skill. But it's only useful if written notation is the method by which the other musicians you work with communicate and you need to be able to play something pretty well at first sight.

If you don't need to do that, then I would say that being able to work out a bass part by listening to a recording or to what the other musicians are playing is a far more useful skill.

[phil.i.stein]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1206103' date='Apr 20 2011, 05:03 PM']The Metal scale obviously.......As long as its detuned of course [/quote]
go on then, list the intervals..

(he asks in trepidation )

[Doddy]

[quote name='phil.i.stein' post='1206110' date='Apr 20 2011, 05:08 PM']go on then, list the intervals..

(he asks in trepidation )[/quote]

1,flat 5, octave

(he answers jokingly )

[Doddy]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1206106' date='Apr 20 2011, 05:05 PM']But world wide there is more than one language. If one will open doors to knowledge and possibilities then so should two, three or even four.

So can it not be said it would be a good idea to learn other forms so you can write it out for yourself and create your own library?[/quote]

Sure.... go for it,it can't hurt can it.

[phil.i.stein]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1206114' date='Apr 20 2011, 05:12 PM']1,flat 5, octave

(he answers jokingly )[/quote]
correctamundo (he answers in all seriousness). i love that scale.

[Doddy]

[quote name='phil.i.stein' post='1206125' date='Apr 20 2011, 05:17 PM']correctamundo (he answers in all seriousness). i love that scale. [/quote]

Haha....I was just replying to your other post but noticed that you
deleted it sharpish

[phil.i.stein]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1206128' date='Apr 20 2011, 05:18 PM']Haha....I was just replying to your other post but noticed that you
deleted it sharpish [/quote]
you say potato, i say potato.

[Doddy]

[quote name='phil.i.stein' post='1206135' date='Apr 20 2011, 05:21 PM']you say potato, i say potato. [/quote]

[phil.i.stein]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1206143' date='Apr 20 2011, 05:23 PM']and the proper name is Spud [/quote]
is that an Irish folk-joke ? i'm confused, .. see that's what written communication does.

..in a vain attempt to be serious here, there's been some good points made by all.

Edited April 20, 2011 by phil.i.stein

[stingrayPete1977]

You lot have been busy , I have never seen so many pages in a day! Who won in the end then?

[peteb]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1206202' date='Apr 20 2011, 06:14 PM']You lot have been busy , I have never seen so many pages in a day! Who won in the end then? [/quote]
SteveK

[phil.i.stein]

[quote name='peteb' post='1206276' date='Apr 20 2011, 07:01 PM']SteveK[/quote]
so true.

i need to realise when to shut the f*** up.

[JTUK]

In reply to the OP...no, it is not normal, IME and who would play with these people if they don't know what they are doing? It would be such hard work that you wouldn't bother, IMO.
Perfect pitch is a very very rare thing.

[fatback]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1206105' date='Apr 20 2011, 05:04 PM']Actually it's always because my fingers won't do what I can hear in my head.

Being able to read is a fantastic skill. But it's only useful if written notation is the method by which the other musicians you work with communicate and you need to be able to play something pretty well at first sight.

If you don't need to do that, then I would say that being able to work out a bass part by listening to a recording or to what the other musicians are playing is a far more useful skill.[/quote]

I wasn't meaning to make that point about reading, more about theory. imo theory really can help translate what you hear in your head into fingerings, maybe because it can point to the likeliest answer to the q of 'what's going on in that bit.'

I find it much easier to remember stuff too if I know what function the chord or note sequence has, rather than just learning it by rote. My crap memory needs all the help it can get.

As for fingers, there are lots of things my fingers will never be able to do if I practiced every remaining minute of my life, knew all the theory in the world and could transcribe Beethoven by ear.