Diary of a P-bass conversion...

[mcnach]

I thought this should probably have its own thread, documenting the changes my poor Sue Ryder P-bass #2 will undergo over the next few weeks.

This bass started like as... hmm, it turns out I didn't take any pictures of it!!!
Well, there's a few basses like it on the Sue Ryder thread. It was translucent blue, with a white pickguard and a maple fingerboard neck.

That neck went on to SR#3, actually, and became fretless (pictures on the Sue Ryder thread)
For this SR#2 I got another maple fingerboard neck, which was much prettier, from another SR that pikeman had (thank you!).

The idea is to strip the body to bare wood, and finish it in oil. Then install a P-bass pickup... *and* a MM pickup. A new pickguard will also have to be cut.

A DiMarzio DP127, bladed humbucker monster, has already been purchased from another BCer.
For the MM, I will probably get a Seymour Duncan SMB4A, as I really like them.

First stage... stripping the body.
I have never done this and I was not keen on sanding by hand, so I thought it was time for chemicals...

I bought a can of Nitromors a few days ago.
I noticed there were two types. The green one, and the yellow (Craftman's) one. I got the green one. Was it the right one?

It didn't smell as bad as I was led to believe. Bathroom with open window was more than enough. Although the smell did linger on for a few days afterwards, but mild.

I started with the back of the body.

It took a while for it to work. The can says 5-10min for paint to bubble, then apply another layer, wait 40min and remove with paint stripper spatula.
It barely did anything by that time, I guess the lacquer is really tough. I left it on while I watched a movie, and while I had dinner after that, and then i went away for 2h. When I returned, nothing much had happened.
I started working with the spatula, and I was pleased to see the paint had been softened quite a bit. So I removed most of the paint of the back.

I seemed to leave a lot of blue streaks on the wood that I doubt Nitromors will remove, so in case I had any doubts: yup, there will still be a certain amount of fine sanding after the chemical approach.

The grain of the body is not the most beautiful, but it's not bad, actually.

Here's after the first application of Nitromors and 5min of spatula, followed by a quick rinse with white spirit.



There is still quite a bit to do.

Tonight I'm using the rest of the can (I bought a small one, ha! optimistic...) on the front of the body.
This time I spread all the Nitromors gel all over the body, trying to get some on the sides too. None of that "two stage" thing. That was done over a cut large bin liner, and after spreading the NItromors I put a carrier bag over it, and then sort of closed the bin liner over it to try to keep the Nitromors from evaporating too fast.
I wonder if it would have helped at all...

[stingrayPete1977]

Your the man Jose! Cool

[Blademan_98]

Sue Ryder basses are cool

This will be the best one on basschat!

[mcnach]

[quote name='Blademan_98' post='1207707' date='Apr 21 2011, 11:26 PM']Sue Ryder basses are cool

This will be the best one on basschat![/quote]

Don't you ever doubt it!!!!

[mcnach]

Okay, first Nitromors application to the front done. Wrapping the bin liner around the body seems to have helped, I thought it was easier to scrape off the finsh, and I was able to remove it from the sides too relatively easily.

But it's nowhere near finished:

left, just after rinsing with white spirit.
right, after drying.




Whatever they used to seal the wood is really hard to break through.
Nitromors ate away at the paint in the pickup/control cavity easily within minutes (I didn't scrape there... simply some gel dropped there and when I removed it the paint came off with it). But the surface of the body has a coat of something (some kind of sealant?) that is thin but very tough. In a few areas you can see the wood, that's usually where this coat is much thinner and was able to go through, or the few places where I actually removed it with the spatula.
Here you can see it clearly on the edge of the neck pocket and one of the pickguard screws




I will try another round of Nitromors, and see if that works... I hope I don't have to get rid of that by brute force and sandpaper!

[AttitudeCastle]

Both those pickups are MONSTEROUS and my favourite pickups! When your done can i borrow the bass?

If the pickus are in series the output will be insane.

[mcnach]

[quote name='AttitudeCastle' post='1208133' date='Apr 22 2011, 11:36 AM']Both those pickups are MONSTEROUS and my favourite pickups! When your done can i borrow the bass?

If the pickus are in series the output will be insane.[/quote]



I have the DP127, but I have only read reviews and heard it on Yotube, which is not exactly ideal, but made me think they were promising.
I should try it in one of the other SR, just for fun while I wait for this body to be ready.

I'm not sure I will care for both pickups on. I'd be happy with an either/or switch. But since we're at it, I'll probably have an option for both on. Probably in parallel, 'though... might try first before hardwiring. I don't want to turn it into a crazy switching beast G&L style
Another thing re: wiring... the DP127 will allow me to wire it in series or parallel... yet another thing to try. Again I'm leaning towards parallel, I just seem to favour that option whenever I've had the choice. But I should try both options before choosing too.

How did you wire your DP127?

I'm pretty much set on the SMB4A pickup. I really like it. But I've had a couple of interesting offers I'm also considering. One is for a Delano, can't recall what model... it has blades, and all covered. Another is a handmade one from Prometeus guitars, which would have to be covered too I think. I like the exposed-polepieces look, but I'm not very precious about it and can actually look pretty cool, considering the look of those DP127 pickups.
We'll see!

Edited April 22, 2011 by mcnach

[Eight]

[quote name='mcnach' post='1208132' date='Apr 22 2011, 11:36 AM']I will try another round of Nitromors, and see if that works... I hope I don't have to get rid of that by brute force and sandpaper![/quote]
I wish I'd known about that stuff. Last "summer" I sanded all the paint off my Peavey with sandpaper... It's all I managed to get done on the project before the rains came.

[AttitudeCastle]

[quote name='mcnach' post='1208154' date='Apr 22 2011, 11:49 AM']

I have the DP127, but I have only read reviews and heard it on Yotube, which is not exactly ideal, but made me think they were promising.
I should try it in one of the other SR, just for fun while I wait for this body to be ready.

I'm not sure I will care for both pickups on. I'd be happy with an either/or switch. But since we're at it, I'll probably have an option for both on. Probably in parallel, 'though... might try first before hardwiring. I don't want to turn it into a crazy switching beast G&L style
Another thing re: wiring... the DP127 will allow me to wire it in series or parallel... yet another thing to try. Again I'm leaning towards parallel, I just seem to favour that option whenever I've had the choice. But I should try both options before choosing too.

How did you wire your DP127?

I'm pretty much set on the SMB4A pickup. I really like it. But I've had a couple of interesting offers I'm also considering. One is for a Delano, can't recall what model... it has blades, and all covered. Another is a handmade one from Prometeus guitars, which would have to be covered too I think. I like the exposed-polepieces look, but I'm not very precious about it and can actually look pretty cool, considering the look of those DP127 pickups.
We'll see![/quote]


Well, (someone is probably going to have a go at me for this!)

I know Higher out put doesn't mean better tone, i also know everything is down to personal preference!

But i put everything in series, as the higher the (passive) output the better for me, i don't know what it is but HIGH output passive pickups just do it for me. The DP127 bass i used to have had higher out put than a mates active warwick, as i had Neck Model 1 and bridge Area Jazz Pup all in series. Bit excessive, and volume at full on all Pups was monsterous, could mess up an amp no worries

Like i usually remove tone controlls from P-basses i have/had (have none atm!) for more out put, but on that 3 Pup one i had it had 3 voumes and 3 tone, in stacked pots to reduce the out put. (By the way that bass wasn't made by me! I only put a split P in it!)

The SMB4A Is great, but i prefer the SMB4D which is pretty much thesame thing with a slightly higher out put and a "modern" voice (i think its a different manet)

What drew me to the Split P is the high out put, the clarity and the Blades, making bends wicked!

[mcnach]

[quote name='AttitudeCastle' post='1208957' date='Apr 23 2011, 09:41 AM']Well, (someone is probably going to have a go at me for this!)

I know Higher out put doesn't mean better tone, i also know everything is down to personal preference!

But i put everything in series, as the higher the (passive) output the better for me, i don't know what it is but HIGH output passive pickups just do it for me. The DP127 bass i used to have had higher out put than a mates active warwick, as i had Neck Model 1 and bridge Area Jazz Pup all in series. Bit excessive, and volume at full on all Pups was monsterous, could mess up an amp no worries

Like i usually remove tone controlls from P-basses i have/had (have none atm!) for more out put, but on that 3 Pup one i had it had 3 voumes and 3 tone, in stacked pots to reduce the out put. (By the way that bass wasn't made by me! I only put a split P in it!)

The SMB4A Is great, but i prefer the SMB4D which is pretty much thesame thing with a slightly higher out put and a "modern" voice (i think its a different manet)

What drew me to the Split P is the high out put, the clarity and the Blades, making bends wicked![/quote]


I don't really care much about output level (within reason! and if anything I'd rather err on lower than higher... but that's just me )
Like you say: personal preference.

Both SMB4A and 4D are cool, and probably live noone is going to know the difference... but I would
I tried both (in 5 string form) and use the 4A on a couple of OLPs. The 4A seems a bit "mellower".
Yes, the construction difference between the A and D versions is the A uses alnico magnets (the polepieces themselves) and the D uses a couple of ceramic magnets under the polepieces (whch are not magnets).

Really looking forward to trying the DP127. I chose it because it sounded pretty good (how subjective is that!) on the youtub videos... and was probably the least P-bass like of the various other pickups I was looing at. It still has that type of sound because it's on that P-bass position, but it seemed quite distinctly un-Pbass... if that makes any sense!!!

[mcnach]

Aha!

Breakthrough!

Two words: [b][size=4]STEEL WOOL[/size][/b]

I used up the little can of Nitromors on the first round, so I went to B&Q today. Instead of Nitromors I bought Polycell Advanced Paint Stripper. Looking at the small print, it looks like it's a gel similar to Nitromors (the green one). But I bought this one because it comes in a plastic tub and I thought that would be less wasteful (the metal can of Nitromors still had some left when I couldn't get any more out of it). Plus it worked out slightly cheaper.

I also bought some coarse steel wool. Best idea all week.

So I set up as before, and applied a coat of the paint stripper gel over the front ot the bass. Like last time, I put a plastic bag over it and closed the bin liner around it to try to contain the vapours. Then continued with my day.
Three or four hours later I went back to it.
At first it looked like the new coat of paintstripper had done nothing. Using the spatula I realised that yes, the sealer was a bit softer and I could remove it, or some of it, with difficulty.

Instead of struggling with that, I decided to change tactic and I cut a bit of steel wool, then rubbed it on the body... wow! with very little effort everything was coming off! Easy! In hindsight, I could have probably used a lot less paintstripper to make the process even less messy.

I didn't do a great job, I basically wanted it outof the way as I had no time tonight to "play" with it... in 5-10 minutes I had rubbed steel wool over the front of the body and left it as bare wood. The edges were poorly done before, and I didn't get into them now, but I rubbed a little bit as I went along and the finish was coming off easily. Steel wool! fantastic invention!

So today it was just a second application of paint stripper to the front, followed by 5-10 minutes of steel wool and then wiped the residue out and rinsed with white spirit. Easy, effortless, quick.

I think it's going to turn out pretty. The body is a 3-piece without particular attention to matching... but it's not ugly:

[Schnozzalee]

Makes me happy to know my Ryder looks that nice underneath . I usually don't like the look of P/MM basses so i'm intrigued to see what this turns out like. Thank you for going in to depth about the products your using/methods etc, very helpful for future reference!!!

[apa]

Exellent write up J

I think they do look matched in a wings and central piece sort of way. Even with the white spirit finish its looking nice and mellow.

On the SMB4A v SMB4D thing. I thought it was the other way round regards tone!! The A being a modern sound and the D being the old skool?

Oh and best ryder mod?? Hmm never mind a ray off how about a ryder off

A

[Doctor J]

Ahhhhhh, I do love this kind of thing. Thanks for posting this

[mcnach]

[quote name='apa' post='1209777' date='Apr 24 2011, 06:49 AM']Exellent write up J

I think they do look matched in a wings and central piece sort of way. Even with the white spirit finish its looking nice and mellow.

On the SMB4A v SMB4D thing. I thought it was the other way round regards tone!! The A being a modern sound and the D being the old skool?

Oh and best ryder mod?? Hmm never mind a ray off how about a ryder off

A[/quote]

SMB4A is the alnico version, and is more "mellow" and "warm" (it's so hard to describe sounds, isn' it?). Stingray.
SMB4D is the ceramic version, which is a bit more mids-rich and have often seen referred to as "modern", or "hot", although I am not sure I necessarily agree. Sterling.

Ryder Off?
It depends what we're measuring. If we go for bling, I will lose big way. If we go for WWF big, then there is no competition!!!

[mcnach]

Setback:

yeah, steel wool is great.

Great to remove to top coats, with paint etc.

However... paint-stripper + steel wool has done NOTHING to the transparent sealer coat!

It looked alright when it was still damp with the white spirit, but after it all evaporated, it's clear I am not even close to being done...

This is a close-up of the edge of the pickup cavity, where I broke off some of the sealant layer and you can see the wood clearly underneath. As you see, that coat is pretty much intact!





The sealant, whatever it is, is very tough and Nitromors will not attack it.
I fear in the end I'll have to resort to power tools, something I was hoping to avoid.
If anybody has any hints about how I could obliterate that sealant coat, I'm all ears.

Edited April 24, 2011 by mcnach

[apa]

Sounds like you have two options:

1. Get that pot of elbow grease out and have a day in the garden making dust

OR

2. Leave it to [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=133065&hl="]the experts[/url]

A

[lettsguitars]

i'm afraid the sandpaper will have to come out sooner or later.

[bassninja]

You may become Scotland's greatest stripper at this rate

[mcnach]

[quote name='apa' post='1209890' date='Apr 24 2011, 11:09 AM']Sounds like you have two options:

1. Get that pot of elbow grease out and have a day in the garden making dust

OR

2. Leave it to [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=133065&hl="]the experts[/url]

A[/quote]



ugh!!! (re: the experts link up there...)

but... I'm off to eBay to look for power sanders (don't worry, you won't see me doing 'relic' jobs... - where is the :vomit: icon?)

[mcnach]

[quote name='lettsguitars' post='1209903' date='Apr 24 2011, 11:27 AM']i'm afraid the sandpaper will have to come out sooner or later.[/quote]


I was hoping to leave it till the very last minute with very fine sandpaper... but it's looking like a heaavier job is required, yup.

Live and learn!

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='mcnach' post='1211000' date='Apr 25 2011, 04:35 PM']I was hoping to leave it till the very last minute with very fine sandpaper... but it's looking like a heaavier job is required, yup.

Live and learn! [/quote]

Before you do that - Tresemme hairdryer on its hottest setting did very nicely for me stripping a poly body including sealer coat. Gentler than a heat gun so no scorch marks but softened the finish enough for me to scrape off easily. Worth a try!

Edited April 25, 2011 by LawrenceH

[Prime_BASS]

I just want to add my two bits to this pickup thing.

Series or parrallel.

Series will give a slightly higher output than parallel, as it is generally 6db "louder". However it boosts the low mids and looses some highs for this boost, not good with some basses that have mo active EQ and or a second pickup closer to the neck as you can end up with a really boomy sound coming from the bass.
My personal preference is parallel like standard stingrays.

SMB4A or 4D?
The A is alnico like standard stingrays and in my opinion have the more vintage sound, as in it's more mellow around the mids and a fuller bottom, but still in rays anyway you get a great high end response.

The 4D is ceramic, like on sterlings. Which has more aggressive mids which can be mistaken for hotter output. Personally I don't like ceramic pickups as they can sound nasally.
Wiki says: It is a common magnetic material for electromagnetic instrument pickups, because of price and relatively high output. However, such pickups lack certain sonic qualities found in other pickups, such as those that use Alnico alloys or more sophisticated magnets

I always think ceramics are used cause they are cheap and thus cheapen the sound. Alnico is a purer metal compound so I assume I'm going to get a purer sound.

I think you'll prefer the SMB4A as it is closer to a standard rays pickup that others, however I do have a Delano alnico replacement hanging about brand new in the box if you are interested.

[Bloodaxe]

Regarding your indestructible sealing coat...

Before you go down the power sanding route, consider hand-sanding. Get a heavy rubber block from either Halfords or DoItAll & some coarse grit wet & dry (120 - 180). Use the block on the front & back, then freehand around the contours & edges - much less chance of inadvertently re-profiling anything. Then work up through the grades to 400 - it'll feel erotically smooth

Before [i]even that[/i] though, think about hoying yourself back to the DIY shoppe & pick up that yellow tin of Nitromors.

Be warned, it bites.

It's a very runny liquid, & really needs to be used outside as the fumes are interesting. An old 1" paintbrush and some sort of heavy-duty gloves are a good idea ([b]not[/b] Marigolds), and don't bother with the bin liner as it'll just melt it into an ungodly mess of caustic black goo - a Sunday broadsheet is your best bet . To neutralise it, you must use white spirit/turps/paraffin or similar - water won't touch it (unlike the green tin); have some to hand all the time just in case you get any on your skin - unlike the green version it'll start to burn like buggery in seconds. It's one of those products that I'm amazed can be still bought on the High Street tbh.

Cautions aside, there are very few finishes that will withstand this stuff. It'll see off two-pack without breaking sweat.

A possible alternative (but may not be cost-effective) is to see if you've got one of those Pine Door-stripping places local to you. They usually use a strong Caustic Soda solution which will also destroy most finishes. You can adopt a DIY approach with Caustic, but the trick is to find something big enough to contain the entire body, as it needs to be fully immersed.

Pete.

[mcnach]

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1211255' date='Apr 25 2011, 09:58 PM']Before you do that - Tresemme hairdryer on its hottest setting did very nicely for me stripping a poly body including sealer coat. Gentler than a heat gun so no scorch marks but softened the finish enough for me to scrape off easily. Worth a try![/quote]


even the sealer?

hmmm, I found your thread... that seems the absolutely cleanest and nicest way to strip a body!

I just bought a sander on eBay (there are loads! cheap! ) but I will definitely try this first. Thank you!