4x12 speaker choice, help needed

[Arrakis]

Hi people been awhile since I've posted. Right, I'm hoping you guys can help me out on this. I have a Green Matamp Bass 200 and a matching 2x15 loaded with Fanes, I want to convert one of my Green guitar 4x12s to bass so I can have a full stack. What speakers would you guys recommend? should I load all 4 or just 2 drivers and leave ports? I have no expertise in this area so any suggestions would be great. This rig is mainly going to be having Stonerrock/doom played through it, C standard drop A#.

Cheers

[Mr. Foxen]

Doesn't really work like that. The cabinet for the guitar speakers is too small, if you put in bass speakers, it will choke off the lows, and probably not have the brightness of guitar speakers. Best plan is to run another head, mids and highs only into the guitar cab, that would sound awesome, and multiple Matamps is the true path.

If you do the two bass speakers, and blocking/porting the other holes, that might work, but it probably won't agree with the 2x15, the lows from the ports can be out of phase with the lows from the 2x15 and all sorts of fun.

[Arrakis]

Thanks for responding, ok thats the sorta stuff I wouldnt have thought of. Curious though how the 2x15 is in a 4x12 size cab.. I guess having a play around with a couple of drivers might be worth it. Always a fan of having more Matamps shame my LX is on guitar duty.. should never have parted with the 120. Well any ideas if I did try this, now what seems to be an awful, idea what 12" driver I should stick in it? I was thinking deltalites mainly for the weight issue Matamp 4x12s are heavy enough lol

[Mr. Foxen]

If you already have another head, go dual amp, just cut the lows through the guitar head. Unless you mean your guitarist is borrowing it, in which case fire him and take it back, where you are going, you don't need guitars.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Arrakis' post='1210371' date='Apr 24 2011, 04:13 PM']I was thinking deltalites mainly for the weight issue Matamp 4x12s are heavy enough lol[/quote]Deltalite II 2512s need about two cubic feet[i] each[/i] for a good result. As already mentioned you can't just stick a bass driver in a guitar cab to make it a bass cab. Running the two with separate amps is the best option.

[Phil Starr]

It's almost never worth trying to adapt an existing cab like this because of the problems of matching speaker to cab volumes. Cabs with the original drivers are usually worth more than ones with replacements anyway, even if the replacement is an 'upgrade'. That doesn't mean it can't be done however.

Why do you want to do this I wonder? Do you have a sound in mind that you are trying to achieve? Do you think you need extra volume? Is it because a full stack looks cool, you could always take the 4x12 and not connect it! You wouldn't be the first person to do this by a long way.

Speakers don't have a 'sound' which is solely ,or even mainly, connected with their size. Just substituting speakers will be unpredictable in the sound you achieve unless you know a lot about interpreting data and speaker design, even then there is still a bit of luck involved, thought he more experienced you are the luckier you get.

I reckon that if you tell people what you are trying to achieve you'll get some good advice.

[Arrakis]

Well the reason i want the extra cab is that the 2x15 isnt particularly good at dishing out the fuzz, I like more drivers for that they seem to sound better, the 8x10 i used to have sounded great for that. I was contemplating trying to make a new baffle for 10s but figured it would be easier to swap out the 12s for bass ones though obviously this doesnt seemto be such a gd idea. As for the 2 cubic feet, Matamp Retro cabs are pretty beasty in size so perhaps putting 2 drivers in with the other holes blocked or on a new baffle would work. Not sure I fancy running the 2 amp ideas as its more to go wrong and lug around (says the bloke wanting 2 massive cabs lol) etc What I dont understand is that I have used bass 4x12 before of the same dimensions of this cab, a marshall and a old trace elliot cab both branded bass 4x12 both the same size... so whats up with that?

[Mr. Foxen]

Midrangy fuzz is done best by guitar speakers anyway, pretty much what I use for the purpose, I do the two amps thing (in practice, mostly my lame guitarist borrows my guitary rig because he can't bring an amp). Basically, the guitar sized cabs for bass, will still basically be guitar cabs, and not much bassier, somewhat tougher drivers, but the cost of the tougher drivers is the high end that you want is reduced. Two rigs is safer for the rigs because they aren't pushed so hard, and you don't have output transformer upsetting weird impedances from mixing cabs and drivers.

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='Arrakis' post='1211447' date='Apr 26 2011, 09:04 AM']Well the reason i want the extra cab is that the 2x15 isnt particularly good at dishing out the fuzz, I like more drivers for that they seem to sound better, the 8x10 i used to have sounded great for that. I was contemplating trying to make a new baffle for 10s but figured it would be easier to swap out the 12s for bass ones though obviously this doesnt seemto be such a gd idea. As for the 2 cubic feet, Matamp Retro cabs are pretty beasty in size so perhaps putting 2 drivers in with the other holes blocked or on a new baffle would work. Not sure I fancy running the 2 amp ideas as its more to go wrong and lug around (says the bloke wanting 2 massive cabs lol) etc What I dont understand is that I have used bass 4x12 before of the same dimensions of this cab, a marshall and a old trace elliot cab both branded bass 4x12 both the same size... so whats up with that?[/quote]

There is probably no technical problem in changing the drivers for bass ones other than just choosing the right ones. If you start with a ready built cab then the choice is going to be limited. Most bass cabs are ported cabs for the very good reason that this is the best way of getting a decent level of bass out of a relatively small cab. Tuning a ported cab is critical for a decent sound and you'll need to get to grips with all this to get a good result. If you tell me the size of the cab I can suggest some drivers that you might consider. The internal dimensions would be good.

You should realise however that there may be some woodwork involved in adapting the cab. Four 12" bass speakers are going to cost you £200-300 for anything reasonable and more if you go for lightweight or better quality. You'd probably get as good a result with less hassle by selling your cab and putting in that extra for a bass cab you can try before buying. Not all 4x12's or even 4x10's sound the same or give the fuzz you want.

On the other hand you may enjoy fiddling around with speakers and you'll learn loads in the process. If you can afford £200 and don't mind if it is only a partial success then you'll find loads of people here to give advice.

Over to you

[Arrakis]

Thanks for all the replys people really useful information has given me alot to think about.

[quote name='Phil Starr' post='1212215' date='Apr 26 2011, 11:58 PM']There is probably no technical problem in changing the drivers for bass ones other than just choosing the right ones. If you start with a ready built cab then the choice is going to be limited. Most bass cabs are ported cabs for the very good reason that this is the best way of getting a decent level of bass out of a relatively small cab. Tuning a ported cab is critical for a decent sound and you'll need to get to grips with all this to get a good result. If you tell me the size of the cab I can suggest some drivers that you might consider. The internal dimensions would be good.

You should realise however that there may be some woodwork involved in adapting the cab. Four 12" bass speakers are going to cost you £200-300 for anything reasonable and more if you go for lightweight or better quality. You'd probably get as good a result with less hassle by selling your cab and putting in that extra for a bass cab you can try before buying. Not all 4x12's or even 4x10's sound the same or give the fuzz you want.

On the other hand you may enjoy fiddling around with speakers and you'll learn loads in the process. If you can afford £200 and don't mind if it is only a partial success then you'll find loads of people here to give advice.

Over to you[/quote]

Hi thats encouraging to hear, im definitely up for having an experiment, I figure as long as any cutting can be on the baffle then it should be fine as this part of the cab is removable although a pain it is doable and therefore reversable. The external dimensions are 14.5"x28.5"x30.5" thats depth, height and width abviously need to lose an inch or so to take into account the thickness of ply used, and an extra inch from the depth due to the recess from the picture frame front. I realsie selling and buying a bass cab would be sensible but my Bass 200 is in Green tolex as is the 2x15 so I'd like them to match the 4x12 and as the Green is no longer available from Matamp getting them to build one for me isnt an option either.

[Mr. Foxen]

Don't chop up green cabs. You have a very excellent free option in dual amping. Try that first. Everyone that runs two amps has tried one amp at some point, they stuck with two.