Bass solo. What’s all that about?

[Bilbo]

I was walking the dogs the other evening and got to thinking about bass solos. Why are they there? What is the purpose? What’s the best way to put one together? What renders a solo pointless? What makes it integral to the piece being performed?

I was thinking about saxophone and trumpet solos and how they generally deliver a more satisfying listening experience. The ability to sustain notes, the ability to manipulate them one they have begun, the dynamic and frequency range of the instrument etc etc. The bass, double or electric, has many of its own characteristics that, wihlst they don’t mirror those of a horn, can certainly provide a similar range of detail and textural interest. But, here’s my point, most bass solos don’t have that range. Most of them seem to come from an ethos of ‘ooo! look at me go’. I can play with unusual parts of my body! I can play a zillion notes an hour! You can’t catch me….’. All a bit juvenile and immature. Most bass solos, to my ears, seem to exist to offer an attempt to out do the next guy, to impress the technicians etc. For me, one of the most beautiful uses of the bass to provide a solo theme is Weather Report’s ‘A Remark You Made’, a piece which is actually very easy for even a learner bass player to play. Stuff that’s hard to execute often offers very little musical satisfaction; just a little party trick to showcase the players chops. Edgar Meyer’s Bach Cello Suites are pretty pure in their intentions and, whilst being bloody hard to play, aare just pretty melodies. There are many other great examples but so much of the stuff we hear from the players that are often the most highly rated exponents of our shared instrument is really clever but, ultimately, futile.

When you get past the chops, there’s often not a lot there.

[ThomBassmonkey]

Bass and drums holds down the groove, since drum solos are rhythmic they can still hold the groove, bass solos tend to be melodic though and don't make as much sense to me since they can totally upset the groove.

In the right context they can work, I've only ever had short solos though and they've been quite simple so it doesn't ruin the feel of the song.

[scalpy]

A man goes to a pacific island for vacation. As the boat nears, he notices the constant sound of drumming. As he gets off the boat, he asks a native how long the drumming will go on. The native casts about nervously and says "very bad when drumming stops." Later that day, the drumming is still going and it is really starting to get to him. So, he asks another native when the drumming will stop. The native looks as if he's just been spooked. "Very bad when drumming stops," he says, and hurries off.

After a couple of days with little sleep, the man had had enough. He grabbed the first native he saw, slammed him up against a tree, and shouted, "What happens when the drumming stops?!"

The native replied, "Bass solo."

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1225900' date='May 10 2011, 09:54 AM']For me, one of the most beautiful uses of the bass to provide a solo theme is Weather Report’s ‘A Remark You Made’, a piece which is actually very easy for even a learner bass player to play.[/quote]


I was just about to mention that as i was reading your post!
I would add that, as with any solo, it's easy to play at first but actually a lot harder to get every little nuance. It's the little details which make it sound so beautiful i think. I'm gonna fire up Spotify and have a listen to it again now.


Nothing else to add, er... i really don't like playing bass solos! In my last band my highlight of the night was "Sir Duke", the low point being when i had to do a solo.

[thisnameistaken]

My band repeatedly suggest that I should play solos, and I repeatedly turn them down. I don't want to get a reputation as one of those bass players who does solos, I'm sure enough people think I'm a twat already.

[Rayman]

I guess it all comes down to your definition of what bass playing actually [i]is[/i].

I like nothing better than a simple groove, repetitive, solid, something that makes you nod your head. To me, that's the antithesis of bass playing, drums and bass together, making you nod your head in time.

Now on the other side of the coin, I like some of the solo players too, Wooten, Miller, Nitti etc etc, and I enjoy listening to them solo, but I still much prefer to hear Marcus Miller, for example, laying down a head bobbing groove than listen to him popping the lead melody on the G string.

I think when you have low and high frequencies in a song, it creates balance to your ears. So if there's a lead guitar or keyboard melody playing the high frequency stuff, there needs to be the bass and drums taking care of the low frequency stuff to balance the sound, and certainly not a tinny bass pop thing going on at the same time otherwise the bottom end is gone. However that's in a band situation. If you had for instance a trio, of drums, upright bass and piano, the piano can play the low end stuff while the bass solos and visa versa and that works beautifully.

To me, it's all about good music. Whether the solo is on trumpet, keys, guitar, and even bass, whatever....if it's enjoyable and stimulating to listen to, it has it's place in the world.

[nomis]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1225900' date='May 10 2011, 09:54 AM']I was walking the dogs the other evening and got to thinking about bass solos. Why are they there? What is the purpose? What’s the best way to put one together? What renders a solo pointless? What makes it integral to the piece being performed?

I was thinking about saxophone and trumpet solos and how they generally deliver a more satisfying listening experience. The ability to sustain notes, the ability to manipulate them one they have begun, the dynamic and frequency range of the instrument etc etc. The bass, double or electric, has many of its own characteristics that, wihlst they don’t mirror those of a horn, can certainly provide a similar range of detail and textural interest. But, here’s my point, most bass solos don’t have that range. Most of them seem to come from an ethos of ‘ooo! look at me go’. I can play with unusual parts of my body! I can play a zillion notes an hour! You can’t catch me….’. All a bit juvenile and immature. Most bass solos, to my ears, seem to exist to offer an attempt to out do the next guy, to impress the technicians etc. For me, one of the most beautiful uses of the bass to provide a solo theme is Weather Report’s ‘A Remark You Made’, a piece which is actually very easy for even a learner bass player to play. Stuff that’s hard to execute often offers very little musical satisfaction; just a little party trick to showcase the players chops. Edgar Meyer’s Bach Cello Suites are pretty pure in their intentions and, whilst being bloody hard to play, aare just pretty melodies. There are many other great examples but so much of the stuff we hear from the players that are often the most highly rated exponents of our shared instrument is really clever but, ultimately, futile.

When you get past the chops, there’s often not a lot there.[/quote]


I AGREE SIR!

[Conan]

[quote name='Rayman' post='1225933' date='May 10 2011, 10:18 AM']To me, it's all about good music. Whether the solo is on trumpet, keys, guitar, and even bass, whatever....if it's enjoyable and stimulating to listen to, it has it's place in the world.[/quote]

I largely agree with Bilbo - but this is a good point too.

As bass players, most of us probably listen to solos as it makes it easier to pick out exactly what the bassist is playing, whereas it can be somewhat lost in a full band scenario. Sometimes though, what you hear makes you think "why did they bother?".

I hate playing solos myself. With a passion.

[flyfisher]

Most solos are for showing off. Most bassist are introverts. The two are simply not compatible.

A wild generalisation, of course, and there will be notable exceptions, but it's spot-on as far as I'm concerned.

[toneknob]

Rocco Prestia once said of his upcoming "solo" album, "There are a few instrumentals, but I'm not a soloist. When people ask why I don't solo, I always say I feel like I'm soloing all the time". So, what he said.

[ahpook]

[i]any[/i] solo that is there solely to show off how good someone's playing is totally pointless imho , and very few bass solos do anything but that.

i was cajoled into playing a bass solo in the punky/mental band i was in many years ago.

i just played a truncated version of 4'33

Edited May 10, 2011 by ahpook

[Dave Vader]

Any solo that goes on for more than 8 bars, on any instrument, is pure w***ery.
Bass solos are dull, as are drum solos.
This is a wild generalisation, though this morning I believe it to be true (I like portrait of Tracey though....)

[bassbloke]

the problem with most bass solos is that they're compositionally crap and cliched.

Now, below is an example of a lovely, short, tasteful bass solo

Jump forward to 2:50 and listen.

[risingson]

Most notable solo bass players are jazz players aren't they. Jazz is about the freedom of expression without constraint on any level, and that includes the perceived limitations of your instrument, so whilst I think that there are only a few notable solo bass players, without them we might never have known the full extent to which the bass could be used. Whether or not you consider the end result enjoyable or not is up to the individual.

The current popular musical climate doesn't seem to have much room for bass solos, I think there's less and less to be discovered about the bass thanks to the big innovators of bass soloing, and after all that's what makes a solo interesting; hearing something you've not heard before done very musically and with a high level of virtuosity.

[lowdown]

[quote name='Dave Vader' post='1225974' date='May 10 2011, 11:08 AM']Bass solos are dull[/quote]


I usually find its the Bassist soloing that is dull, not the actual solo aspect of it.
Bassists by nature seem to be un melodic, and are not lyrical in their approach. [Not all of course]
They tend to play everything in scale form , going up and down as fast as they can because it possibly falls under the fingers.
Using larger intervals seems to pass them by, of course this might be because cross string playing can be harder to achieve in a fluent way on the Bass.

A bass player winging a solo [mainly because they don't know what they are doing, or why they are doing it] is no different to bad guitar solos,
Bad horn solos - or even worse the likes of Nigel Kennedy straying from their classical environment and having a go at improvising.
So its possibly not the type/what Instrument - but the player who spews out a bad solo.

Some people just seem to be more melodic than others when pulling off a solo [any instrument]
Not to say you can not learn to be melodic - and a lot of players do learn over time.




Garry

[Doddy]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1225900' date='May 10 2011, 09:54 AM']When you get past the chops, there’s often not a lot there.[/quote]

That.

Fitst off,I like solos,both listening to them and playing them. But,I think where the problem comes is that too many bass players,when faced with a solo,is that they don't know what to play.
So,they play pentatonic licks as fast as they can,or they whip out their thumb and play fast octaves.Guitar players often get sruck in the pentatonic shape style solo,but the difference is that they have a wider range when playing in position than the bass does,which then messes up the bass players who don't know the fingerboard well enough to apply their ideas.
There is no reason why a bass player shouldn't be able to solo as well as any other instrument,and a big part of that is phrasing.Horn players have to phrase because they need to breath,but bass players don't-they can just play a barrage of notes.While this has it's place,I don't think it makes good listening over prolonged periods. There are a whole bunch of players who,I think, play great solos on the bass,and they all phrase and build throughout,and generally have something to say.

The bass can be,and is,so much more than 'the foundation'.It's all about your attitude and how you choose to apply it.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='toneknob' post='1225968' date='May 10 2011, 10:59 AM']I always say I feel like I'm soloing all the time.[/quote]

+1

I don't care if no one in the pub is actually listening to what I'm playing.

It doesn't feel like that.

[TimR]

The instruments that usually take solos are the instruments that usually play melody.

The bass is traditionally a harmonic (or even bass) instrument so traditionally it doesn't have that quality.

When you switch to playing a solo or melody do you need someone to cover the bass or harmony parts?

There is a difference between bass solo and solo bass. If you listen to Marcus Millers albums he has two bass parts. The bass playing the bass and the bass playing the melody.

I think if you don't support the solo with harmony or bass, a solo can lose direction.

Edited May 10, 2011 by TimR

[Clarky]

For me, one of the beauties of Jamerson's playing is that he is soloing and supporting at the same time - take Flying High in a Friendly Sky.

IMHO there are some great bass solos but they are few and far between and most solos are just showing off chops

[paulflan0151]

+1

[xilddx]

I agree with Bilbo.

Soloing with a bass is like painting with mud.

Bass is a supporting instrument. Its timbre, its register, its limitations. Support. The bass is capable of many beautiful things, but soloing is not one of them. Why anyone would want to expose themselves in such a way is quite beyond my understanding, unless to demonstrate to others how amazing you are in the bedroom.

The only people who are pleased to hear a bass solo, are other bassists who want to learn how to perform a bass solo.

[bassace]

Well, it's a yes and no thing really isn't it. I can't remember ever taking a solo on BG, but perhaps jazz DB is a bit different and is probably what Bilbo was thinking about. As previous posts have said, the double bass player's job is in the engine room along with the drummer to pulse the band along - at least that's how I see my job. With the seven piece Dixieland band I play in I get two a gig max and it's generally for a bit of light relief; for who I'm not so sure.

When I'm playing with a modern trio or quartet it's a bit different. There's a lot more interplay here and an opportunity to take a more frontline role. In the choruses the bass generally plays a four in the bar pulse, whereas a solo will give the player the opportunity to play horn phrasing. Also, something perhaps not readily considered is that in an ensemble role the whole tonal range of the bass is not very well heard, whereas in a solo there is a better opportunity for that great DB sound to be fully heard - and the audiences appreciate that.

Talking of audience appreciation, You know how they applaud solos, in my opinion not very discriminatory a lot of the time. When I get applause for mine - yes, I do - I usually say that it's not because I've done it well but that I've done it at all (Samuel Johnson's dog)

[Earbrass]

[quote name='silddx' post='1226037' date='May 10 2011, 12:01 PM']Why anyone would want to expose themselves in such a way is quite beyond my understanding, unless to demonstrate to others how amazing you are in the bedroom.[/quote]

Are we still talking about bass solos?

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1226017' date='May 10 2011, 11:48 AM']...There is no reason why a bass player shouldn't be able to solo as well as any other instrument,and a big part of that is phrasing.Horn players have to phrase because they need to breathe,but bass players don't-they can just play a barrage of notes...
The bass can be,and is,so much more than 'the foundation'.It's all about your attitude and how you choose to apply it.[/quote]


[quote name='Happy Jack' post='1226019' date='May 10 2011, 11:50 AM']I don't care if no one in the pub is actually listening to what I'm playing.
It doesn't feel like that.

[/quote]

The people in the pub are [i]feeling[/i] it...

I don't tend to solo, possibly only in short exposed bursts, but I'd love to swap harmony for melody a bit more often. But (and it's a big "but") just try finding a guitarist who can or will sit back and harmonise!
With regard to phrasing, there's ways around the tendency to deliver a barrage of notes- Write the solo by singing or humming it. That'll force you to breathe and then transfer that composition to the bass. Alternatively, imagine it's being written for strings or horns...

[chris_b]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1225900' date='May 10 2011, 09:54 AM']....When you get past the chops, there’s often not a lot there....[/quote]
Tell that to Slam Stewart, Ray Brown and Charlie Mingus!