purpleblob Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Ah the old "bassists shouldn't solo" thread. These seem to come round every couple of months. Without reading everything, have we been through the anti slapping, anti tapping, anti chords on bass, anti bass with more than four string (although maybe a low B is allowed in certain cases) phase yet ? What about the higher than the tenth fret is out of bounds thing, has this one come up yet ? I'm guessing fret w**kering or similar has been mentioned by now ? What about, if you want to solo then play guitar instead ? :lol: Well, I suppose I may as well add my 2p's worth to this If you don't like it don't do it and don't listen to bands who do, it's really no biggie. Obviously context is everything, I love heavy rock but I absolutely do NOT want to hear a bass solo in it, guitar yes, bass no. I also enjoy some forms of Jazz and I've more than happy to hear a bass solo although by no means would I neccesarily want or expect one on every tune (unless it was a bassists band/album in which case you'd sort of expect it likely to happen on most/all tracks). Like everything else, some solo's can be nice some not so and this can be said for guitar, sax or nose flute solo's. The solo is there to allow the musician to express themselves outside the confines of the structure of the song/music. Certainly (like the previous threads on those numpty's who slap at 100 mph) some people solo to show off their licks, some do it because they feel they have something to contribute to the tune. Admittedly played on a piccolo bass, Stanley Clarke's school days solo is one of the all time greats, but people like Tony Grey play beautiful solo's without pyrotechnics thrown in as does Yves Carbonne. Avishai Cohen does the occasional solo without needing to show his chops because he's so damn good anyway. What I don't get and I doubt I ever will, is those bassist who seem to want to limit their instrument to (massive generalisation time) root and fifth playing. Ah well, each to their own I suppose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurhenry Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Part of the problem is to do with terminology. In rock, pop and jazz "solo" has come to mean "feature" ie. one instrument is featured above the others, often by playing lots of notes. "Feature" would better describe this type of playing. Without wishing to be pedantic (I talk about "solos" like everyone else) The beginning of Stairway to heaven is a guitar solo, Page wailing away at the end is a guitar feature (it's not solo, it's accompanied). The "Formula one" bit in The Chain is a bass solo, Andy Fraser plays a bass feature in Mr Big by Free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted May 11, 2011 Author Share Posted May 11, 2011 [quote name='purpleblob' post='1227138' date='May 11 2011, 09:19 AM']Ah the old "bassists shouldn't solo" thread. These seem to come round every couple of months. Without reading everything, have we been through the anti slapping, anti tapping, anti chords on bass, anti bass with more than four string (although maybe a low B is allowed in certain cases) phase yet ? What about the higher than the tenth fret is out of bounds thing, has this one come up yet ? I'm guessing fret w**kering or similar has been mentioned by now ? What about, if you want to solo then play guitar instead ? [/quote] Nope - we had got to 50 posts without anyone mentioning the stuff you listed. And, as for a thread that appears every fortnight? I can't remember the last one and I am here pretty much every day. It is not unreasonable for a forum with a constantly moving population to revisit issues that have been touched upon before. The new members may have something to contribute to the debate or find something of use to them in conceptualising their playing and even longer standing members may have come across something that they want to share. I'm off to start a thread about the benefits of reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleblob Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1227214' date='May 11 2011, 10:05 AM']Nope - we had got to 50 posts without anyone mentioning the stuff you listed. And, as for a thread that appears every fortnight? I can't remember the last one and I am here pretty much every day. It is not unreasonable for a forum with a constantly moving population to revisit issues that have been touched upon before. The new members may have something to contribute to the debate or find something of use to them in conceptualising their playing and even longer standing members may have come across something that they want to share. I'm off to start a thread about the benefits of reading.[/quote] I'm not suggesting it's bad to revisit old ground otherwise I would not have commented. Sorry, I thought my overuse of emoticons would demonstrate my comment was toungue in cheek but possibly not But I do just find it amusing how polarised views are on such a subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted May 11, 2011 Author Share Posted May 11, 2011 [quote name='purpleblob' post='1227301' date='May 11 2011, 11:22 AM']I'm not suggesting it's bad to revisit old ground otherwise I would not have commented. Sorry, I thought my overuse of emoticons would demonstrate my comment was toungue in cheek but possibly not [/quote] Fret not, old chum. My response was mostly tongue in cheek also albeit with a serious intent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 [quote name='purpleblob' post='1227301' date='May 11 2011, 11:22 AM']I'm not suggesting it's bad to revisit old ground otherwise I would not have commented. Sorry, I thought my overuse of emoticons would demonstrate my comment was toungue in cheek but possibly not [/quote] Over-use of emoticons, to me anyway, makes the writer look at best flustered and angry, and at worst positively deranged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleblob Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1227319' date='May 11 2011, 11:33 AM']Over-use of emoticons, to me anyway, makes the writer look at best flustered and angry, and at worst positively deranged. [/quote] Certainly looking at the number of deranged is a possibility Duplicate posts also look a little suspect Edited May 11, 2011 by purpleblob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Haha yeah what a time to multi-post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleblob Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1227340' date='May 11 2011, 11:45 AM']Haha yeah what a time to multi-post. [/quote] Ofcourse if you removed this post I'd looked truly deranged, so better reply to it quick to ensure it remains Anyway, back OT - it's without doubt (and I absolutely concede) that the bass guitar or double bass or general bass producing instruments are less suitable for soloing as the human ear appears better tuned to a higher pitch playing melodies etc. hence why bass guitarists often play above the 10th fret to cut through the mix. One can therefore infer the instrument is less suitable for soloing because of this and even though I have lots of bassist type albums, I find excessive bass soloing tiring. There's no doubt the bass cannot produce the phrasing of a sax or the screams (well nice ones) of a guitar, but I do tend to think they still have a place in terms of soloing. Certainly a good fretless player such as Jaco, Jonas, Yves can create lovely phrasing on a bass. EDIT: Assuming the musician playing it has something to "say" and is not just in it for the chops. Edited May 11, 2011 by purpleblob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 It's like someone else said though, even if you've got a complete mastery of the instrument and - the really rare element - something actually interesting you're going to play, it would still sound better on another instrument. I think the exception is a bowed double bass. Pizz DB solos sound awful, they just demonstrate what a pig of an instrument it is, but bowed a quality instrument with a quality player sounds stunning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earbrass Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 [quote name='purpleblob' post='1227365' date='May 11 2011, 12:03 PM']Assuming the musician playing it has something to "say" and is not just in it for the chops.[/quote] mmmmm... chops.... [attachment=79570:chops.jpg] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 [quote name='purpleblob' post='1227138' date='May 11 2011, 09:19 AM']Admittedly played on a piccolo bass, Stanley Clarke's school days solo is one of the all time greats.....[/quote] So great that he's played it with only slight variations on every bloody album he's released since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleblob Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1227370' date='May 11 2011, 12:08 PM']It's like someone else said though, even if you've got a complete mastery of the instrument and - the really rare element - something actually interesting you're going to play, it would still sound better on another instrument. I think the exception is a bowed double bass. Pizz DB solos sound awful, they just demonstrate what a pig of an instrument it is, but bowed a quality instrument with a quality player sounds stunning.[/quote] At the end of the day there's little chance I will convert the non-solo crowd to become solo fans and I think we can both agree that ultimately it's down to your personal taste whether you like the sound of a bass solo. I personally think a good bass solo on a bass guitar sounds better on the bass guitar than on a trumpet or a sax or whatever, I mean each has it's own limitations, it's own timbre etc. You simply cannot get a bass solo sound on a sax or a guitar on a trumpet (and yes I'm sure some will think that's a good thing ). I've certainly not said I want to listen to bass solo's every song but I'd say the exact same thing hearing sax solo's on every song (i.e. I don't wanna here it). Anyway, I'm pretty certain my view in favour of bass solos will be the minority amongst those who post on this topic and that's fine. I'm not here to try to convert anyone, just thought I should put an opposing view Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleblob Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 [quote name='Earbrass' post='1227378' date='May 11 2011, 12:13 PM']mmmmm... chops.... [attachment=79570:chops.jpg][/quote] Damn now that makes me feel hungry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 [quote name='purpleblob' post='1227436' date='May 11 2011, 12:56 PM']"... ultimately it's down to your personal taste whether you like the sound of a bass solo... I've certainly not said I want to listen to bass solo's every song but I'd say the exact same thing hearing sax solo's on every song (i.e. I don't wanna here it)."[/quote] ^ I'm with purpleblob on this. It's surely a matter of personal preference; there is no definite "right or wrong" here. A well-composed, well-played bass solo is surely a good thing; a badly played, inappropriate bass solo surely sucks. Everything in between is personal preference, like arguing over whose favourite colour is best (mine's orange, by the way, and yes it is the best). As blob said, I personally hate sax solos, and they crop up in certain genres all the time. There's no point in me bawling about it, I just choose not to listen to them. Saying that the bass is not suitable for soloing just seems to be limiting the instrument unnecessarily, in my opinion. I've heard plenty of bass solos that have blown me away, or made me think: "WTF... is that REALLY a bass making that sound??", but then maybe my ears are simply less familiar with the genre and more easily impressed (or less jaded??). It might also be because I'm coming at this from a more studio-based, electronic perspective (drum'n'bass/dubstep/electronica/hip hop), when this debate seems to be circling around more traditional rock, jazz, etc. So yeah, my comments might be out of context, but heh. Orange is still the best colour... ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) [quote name='purpleblob' post='1227138' date='May 11 2011, 09:19 AM']What I don't get and I doubt I ever will, is those bassist who seem to want to limit their instrument to (massive generalisation time) root and fifth playing.[/quote] I do understand why people want to limit their instrument (usually down to their own preconceptions, prejudices or preferences), but I find it irritating when they then expect that others should comform. Back to the OP, I find it rather like someone who doesn't like vanilla ice-cream asking is there any point to it and being answered by various opinions in the "yes", "no", "I prefer strawberry" mold. Still, most of these threads are rather like that and I still end up commenting, sadly. Edited May 11, 2011 by 4000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 [quote name='Skol303' post='1227503' date='May 11 2011, 01:35 PM']Orange is still the best colour... ;-)[/quote] Nail, head. Except it's blue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleblob Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) [quote name='4000' post='1227517' date='May 11 2011, 01:46 PM']I do understand why people want to limit their instrument (usually down to their own preconceptions, prejudices or preferences), but I find it irritating when they then expect that others should comform.[/quote] Yes, this is a far better way of putting it. EDIT: Oh best colour, obviously purple Edited May 11, 2011 by purpleblob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 [quote name='purpleblob' post='1227573' date='May 11 2011, 02:16 PM']Yes, this is a far better way of putting it. EDIT: Oh best colour, obviously purple [/quote] Nah... you and 4000 are just prejudiced. It's definitely orange! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted May 11, 2011 Author Share Posted May 11, 2011 You're all wrong. Its a kind of blue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1227639' date='May 11 2011, 03:20 PM']You're all wrong. Its a kind of blue.[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Bilbo' post='1227639' date='May 11 2011, 03:20 PM']You're all wrong. Its a kind of blue.[/quote] Now you're splitting hairs. I wasn't Miles off. Edited May 11, 2011 by 4000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 What would be really sweet is if there was a middle ground between just playing 1-5 all night and playing a 10 minute tapping solo that demonstrates the whole gamut of emotion involved in carrying a busty maiden out of the gates of Hades whilst wearing armour made from the bones of the orcs you'd slain that afternoon. But sadly those two extremes are all we've got to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebasshead Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1227370' date='May 11 2011, 12:08 PM']It's like someone else said though, even if you've got a complete mastery of the instrument and - the really rare element - something actually interesting you're going to play, it would still sound better on another instrument. I think the exception is a bowed double bass. Pizz DB solos sound awful, they just demonstrate what a pig of an instrument it is, but bowed a quality instrument with a quality player sounds stunning.[/quote] Irrespective of instrument, I think you've answered your own question there. Someone with complete mastery [i]and[/i] something to say would surely choose an appropriate use of their chosen instrument to express it and avoid playing notes/in a style better suited to another instrument Sadly they are really rare elements, but, personally I'll happily put up with those who try and don't quite get it so long as the intention to "say something" is there. It's the ones who do it purely for the technique/showing off that are a huge turn off to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleblob Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1227739' date='May 11 2011, 04:39 PM']What would be really sweet is if there was a middle ground between just playing 1-5 all night and playing a 10 minute tapping solo that demonstrates the whole gamut of emotion involved in carrying a busty maiden out of the gates of Hades whilst wearing armour made from the bones of the orcs you'd slain that afternoon. But sadly those two extremes are all we've got to work with.[/quote] Oh if only I could do a tapping solo to summon up that emotion ! But I'm rubbish at tapping [quote name='4000' post='1227720' date='May 11 2011, 04:22 PM']Now you're splitting hairs. I wasn't Miles off. [/quote] And the prize goes to 4000. Very good ! Edited May 11, 2011 by purpleblob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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