Lightweight = Lightsound

[Beedster]

[quote name='Bloc Riff Nut' post='1226350' date='May 10 2011, 03:59 PM']I love these threads too, you guys make me laugh. Even if you are right.[/quote]


[quote name='Bloc Riff Nut' post='1226365' date='May 10 2011, 04:10 PM']Americans like everything BIG, I think my thread will get a more positive response on TB [/quote]


[quote name='Bloc Riff Nut' post='1226407' date='May 10 2011, 04:43 PM']I posted on TalkBass and it's official... UTTER TOSH indeed.
Hope everyone had a nice time venting.
Yours,

Phil.

Maybe I should change my sig![/quote]


LOL, nicely taken on the chin mate. I must admit, I prefer heavy gear, but know so little about what makes gear good I simply leave it at that

[alexclaber]

Cabs don't vary in how they 'throw' sound - they're all loudest close up, silent at infinite distance and obey the laws of physics in between. Any variance you hear are your ears playing tricks - the cab that sounds loudest and fattest at a distance is the louder fatter cab.

[stingrayPete1977]

I don't like Mark bass or trace so you can keep both your old and new rigs for me Ha

[Beedster]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='1226448' date='May 10 2011, 05:12 PM']Any variance you hear are your ears playing tricks[/quote]

Alex, you know your stuff and it's a brave man who challenges you ion this domain, but surely you're confusing physics and psychoacoustics there? When you say 'the ears playing tricks', are you not really talking of how the brain perceives and represents sound, in which case JT's points could be valid?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Bloc Riff Nut' post='1226365' date='May 10 2011, 11:10 AM']I think my thread will get a more positive response on TB [/quote]Or not. They're also sensible enough to know that the only thing that differentiates heavy gear from lightweight is that heavy gear weighs more.
[quote]BUT..I have recordings of
a 1x15/210 config over 2x1x12's and the sound of the latter does me fine atm[/quote]Moot. All that proves is that you prefer one recording to another. A recording is only as accurate as the gear it was recorded with and listened to on.

[skej21]

Total crap in my opinion.

You don't need a 120kg, 8x12" cab to get a good sound.

As for the American's (or anyone) liking things to be BIG... Classic case of over-compensating for the old fella down stairs IMO!

[JTUK]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='1226448' date='May 10 2011, 05:12 PM']Cabs don't vary in how they 'throw' sound - they're all loudest close up, silent at infinite distance and obey the laws of physics in between. Any variance you hear are your ears playing tricks - the cab that sounds loudest and fattest at a distance is the louder fatter cab.[/quote]

Not talking about loud or fat otherwise I would have said as much ..I am talking about a weight to the sound.
It was most apparent out front. I didn't much rave about the 'local' sound.

We can go round in circles here, but this is my subjective view.

Counter arguments/views cannot be proven anymore than I can prove mine, IMV.
So lets not get into this 'tell me what I hear' roundabout against a piece of paper saying this or that happens

I said all along, it was subjective.

Anyway..after all that... I'll still be buying the 115/210 config. so sell them cheap to me..

[JTUK]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='1226463' date='May 10 2011, 05:21 PM']Or not. They're also sensible enough to know that the only thing that differentiates heavy gear from lightweight is that heavy gear weighs more.
Moot. All that proves is that you prefer one recording to another. A recording is only as accurate as the gear it was recorded with and listened to on.[/quote]

Sure..that is where it all started...but subsequent outings have confirmed the 115/210 is the way for me to go...despite weight.

[chris_b]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1226364' date='May 10 2011, 04:10 PM']....My feeling is that NEO's are a fad....[/quote]
Compare a TC750 with the awful HH and Vox transistor amps of the 60's.

Neo will evolve, inspite of the Chinese, and ceramic speakers will ultimately be filed away with propellers, radiograms, steam trains and yards, feet and inches.

[Bloc Riff Nut]

[quote name='Beedster' post='1226447' date='May 10 2011, 05:12 PM']LOL, nicely taken on the chin mate. I must admit, I prefer heavy gear, but know so little about what makes gear good I simply leave it at that [/quote]
Me neither. I've only ever owned 4 gigging amps and my preference changes like the wind. That said, there are alot of bassChatters that know what ther're talking about, or at least they talk a good game.

You can learn a lot from silly statements on BC, and they rarely beat you up that badly. I think I'll keep me 'ead down for a few weeks and sneak back in when no one's looking.

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='Bloc Riff Nut' post='1226407' date='May 10 2011, 04:43 PM']I posted on TalkBass and it's official... UTTER TOSH indeed.
Hope everyone had a nice time venting.
Yours,

Phil.

Maybe I should change my sig![/quote]



Well you've got a much better sense of humour than the last guy who started a thread like this, fair play!

[JTUK]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1226472' date='May 10 2011, 05:26 PM']....
Neo will evolve, inspite of the Chinese, and ceramic speakers will ultimately be filed away with propellers, radiograms, steam trains and yards, feet and inches.[/quote]


possibly..and I DID say fad was maybe too strong a word in my original post

but as for ceramics and their longevity..?? maybe, but then they said that about valves..

If I heard a NEO cab I liked and the price was good... I didn't say I wouldn't ever buy one.
All cabs have compromises, IMO...depends what you want or have to live with.

[270degrees]

I think the question - to those who say lighter is good/just as good/better - is: would your opinion change if you had someone to cart your gear around for you? That is, a little robot appeared every time you needed to move it and did it for you.

Personally, I don't get involved in the debate: my ears are my ears and I hear things differently to everyone else.

[Bloc Riff Nut]

[quote name='lemmywinks' post='1226508' date='May 10 2011, 04:55 PM']Well you've got a much better sense of humour than the last guy who started a thread like this, fair play! [/quote]
We shouldn't take ourselves too seriously. I enjoy the forum, couldn't imagine getting tetchy over a 'I like this and you like that' debate.
I'm more of a reader than a poster... hhhhmmmmmm I wonder why!
Humility, the world could use some.

[Ghost_Bass]

IMO heavy cabs have more mass leading to more ressonance (like heavy-mass bass bridges). This effect adds that perception of a bassier sound but IME it result in muddy lows that fill the room without adding volume.
For me, a well designed lightweigh cab can go just as low and as loud as an old heavy cab but with more definition and clarity in the sound - some may call this "thin".
I prefer to hear every note i'm playing than to see all the bottles on the bar's shelf shaking

[skankdelvar]

In ascribing his improved sound to the gross tonnage of his rig, the OP is perhaps in error.

If one's purpose is - as it should be - to reduce hapless punters to a fine pink mist, he is entirely correct. 'Lightweight' gear is an abomination embraced by hand-wringing pacifists and the spinally challenged.

Edited May 10, 2011 by skankdelvar

[Protium]

I put a breezeblock in my 1210, and now it sounds miles better.

[Lozz196]

I think double the number of speakers in the original post has far more to do with the depth/fatness of the sound, than double the weight of the amp head/cabs.

I`ve always been an "as many speakers as I can fit in the car" kindof guy, as find that the depth comes from more cones pushing more air. At least, on my budget that is. Am sure some of the much more expensive single cone cabs have real depth to them.

However, whenever I`ve checked out local covers bands playing in a pub, the bass sound that has always sounded best to me has been a little Markbass setup, whereas the huge stacks have not been so good.

Would add to that though,having played some fairly large stages myself, that, with the music I play (punk & heavy rock) I think the stacks edge it here - not sure I would have had the presence I wanted from the backline with a 2x10 Markbass combo. So really, right tools for the job.

Not getting rid of my TC Classic 450 for anything though. Lightweight, great sound!

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1226472' date='May 10 2011, 05:26 PM']ceramic speakers will ultimately be filed away with [b]propellers[/b], radiograms, steam trains and yards, feet and inches.[/quote]

Err who said propellers had been filed away? Plenty of brand new planes with props mate and I just dont mean little ones, Look up

[quote name='Protium' post='1226566' date='May 10 2011, 06:39 PM']I put a breezeblock in my 1210, and now it sounds miles better.[/quote]

Yes, I love it Protium

What this thread should of started like was - I have found an amp that I prefer to my old amp tone wise, The only downside is its heavier but I dont mind.

[Bloc Riff Nut]

[quote name='Protium' post='1226566' date='May 10 2011, 05:39 PM']I put a breezeblock in my 1210, and now it sounds miles better.[/quote]
Breezeblock won't work it's light.Even floats.

[Bloc Riff Nut]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1226574' date='May 10 2011, 05:44 PM']Err who said propellers had been filed away? Plenty of brand new planes with props mate and I just dont mean little ones, Look up



Yes, I love it Protium

What this thread should of started like was - I have found an amp that I prefer to my old amp tone wise, The only downside is its heavier but I dont mind. [/quote]
Yes, that's what I meant.
Just took this thread to realize.

[cycrowave]

It's those lightweight basses that really gets my goat. You know, the ones with the short necks and 6 strings

[alexclaber]

Yes, my point is regarding both physics and psychoacoustics. Lots of cabs sound good when you're so close to them that your ears are distorting and compressing and hiding their flaws. Lots of cabs sound bassy when you're close enough to feel the air moving in the immediate near-field. It's the cabs that can fill a venue with sound and still sound big and deep when cranked up when you're standing far enough away for your ears to hear them accurately, they're the ones that sound truly heavy. And with my preferences for massive sounds it takes a stack of generic cabs almost as tall as me to deliver that kind of performance. I hate wimpy lows.

Ironically I've never really cared how much cabs weigh, indeed I've been known to voluntarily lift heavy things in the name of exercise - but it's gratifying that those with knackered backs or other ailments can keep gigging because our cabs happen to be light. But the goal has always been real bottom, not that fake compressed and technically distorted mid-bass that so many smaller rigs use to try to fill the bottom with varying degrees of success.

Edited May 10, 2011 by alexclaber

[deksawyer]

To the original poster: what a load of bollocks!

D.

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='cycrowave' post='1226581' date='May 10 2011, 06:51 PM']It's those lightweight basses that really gets my goat. You know, the ones with the short necks and 6 strings [/quote]

Thats where I was going wrong for so many years. Pesky treble guitars.