Kitting out my garage as a rehearsal space

[bremen]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='1229839' date='May 13 2011, 12:23 PM']TimR, this is the way my plans are drifting, though I'll be using plywood (now NOT marine ply!) rather than plasterboard. This is down to personal preference and very restricted DIY skills ... I bloody hate working with plasterboard but I know where I am with plywood. [/quote]

Fair enough, but you will get more sound reduction with plasterboard. Might be cheaper too.

[Low End Bee]

Good stuff. I'm on the case with Bob the Builder.
Love to give the Jetsonics a spin once Abbey Road Lite is complete.

[i]Stupid cheap work keyboard[/i]

Edited May 13, 2011 by Low End Bee

[TimR]

'Ours' wasn't sound proof. The fact that its isolated from the walls and floor is important or the concrete garage will just turn into a huge transmitter.

The underlay will be good to reduce the reflections.

A plastic damp sheet between the insulation and the concrete wall sounds like a good idea.

The air gap between the insulation and the concrete wall was important for a few reasons. Thermal and acoustic but I can't remember all the physics at the moment.

Electric points: As many outlets as you can afford around the walls. Avoid pendulum lights as they will be too low and avoid recessed down-lighters as the sound will just go through the holes and you need to provide to let the heat escape from them. If it's an outside building you'll probably need to be on an RCD. If in doubt get a sparks in.

Edited May 13, 2011 by TimR

[51m0n]

Simple rule is for isolation you need a few things:-

rigid and dense materials
air gaps
no transmission avenue (ie walls sitting on the floor unseperated by some form of acoustic dampening device)
no gaps!!!!

The reason plasterboard gets used is because it is so dense. It still needs to be double layered though! Ply wont do anything like the same job IMO.

[TimR]

If you make the walls 8ft high and the frame has studding at 4ft intervals you only need to cut the plasterboard at the ends and posibly the actual ceiling pieces. Cuts down on a lot of work if the space you build is 12ft by 8ft. Plan the frame well.

Edited May 13, 2011 by TimR

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='51m0n' post='1229921' date='May 13 2011, 01:58 PM']The reason plasterboard gets used is because it is so dense. It still needs to be double layered though! Ply wont do anything like the same job IMO.[/quote]

But are you looking for sound-[b][i]proofing [/i][/b]or sound [b][i]reduction[/i][/b]?

Using double-layered PB will be an absolute pain in the arse, and will only apply to the walls anyway - the ceiling/roof will be no better sound-proofed than was originally planned.

If I need to use double-layered PB to reduce the volume, then I'll do it. But if I don't need that level of aggravation to achieve my target, then I'll give it a miss thanks.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='TimR' post='1229961' date='May 13 2011, 02:29 PM']Cuts down on a lot of work if the space you build is 12ft by 8ft. Plan the frame well.[/quote]

You're not a good European, are you?

According to all the websites I've been trawling recently, [s]her name is Olga [/s]... I mean my garage is 5.0m x 2.7m and I should be creating a room-within-a-room which measures 4.8m x 2.4m.

Nominal.



I take your point about planning the frame well. It seems that I need to think in terms of allowing 600mm from stud-centre to stud-centre.

[TimR]

I fell down there as well. The plaster board sizes were quoted as 2.4x1.2 m but when they arrived were actually 8x4 ft. or the other way round. They did fit the frame but with gaps. It was 20 years ago but check whether the plaster board is imperial or metric before you build the frame 24inches(600mm) stud to stud sounds fine.

We used single layer. The garage is stand alone you are not trying to sound insulate it from an adjoining property. The distance and neighbours walls will do that. They should be able to put up with a [b]small[/b] amount of noise in the summer with their windows open. They'll complain more about the noise you make when you come outside for a break.

Yes 2.7x5.0 would probably mean inside dimensions of 2.4x4.8 to make it all slot together nicely. Cool!

Edited May 13, 2011 by TimR

[icastle]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='1229996' date='May 13 2011, 02:50 PM']I take your point about planning the frame well. It seems that I need to think in terms of allowing 600mm from stud-centre to stud-centre.[/quote]

And don't forget channeling for cables - I use plastic pipe in stud walls with a draw string in it so I can add more cables at a later date if I need to...

[vmaxblues]

You need to use a product called Fermacel for the walls, it is a sheet material which is very dense and is an essential component in noise reduction.

I was heavily involved in creating a complex of sound studios in Worcester many moons ago and this was an integral component.

PM me if you need any further info.

Cheers

Stuart

[51m0n]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='1229988' date='May 13 2011, 02:47 PM']But are you looking for sound-[b][i]proofing [/i][/b]or sound [b][i]reduction[/i][/b]?

Using double-layered PB will be an absolute pain in the arse, and will only apply to the walls anyway - the ceiling/roof will be no better sound-proofed than was originally planned.

If I need to use double-layered PB to reduce the volume, then I'll do it. But if I don't need that level of aggravation to achieve my target, then I'll give it a miss thanks.

[/quote]

Its the same thing. You can only attenuate, you cannot entirely remove. Of course the level of attenuation is what matters, and whilst I understand you want to take off 10dB, realistically you are going to need to do the best job possible to achieve that.

The roof is an issue, you will need to prevent spillage through that as drastically as everywhere else or your efforts are wasted. Sound is like water, if there is a gap it will find its way through.

[Geddys nose]

This is a cheap and easy way to insulate and soundproof-

[url="http://www.planetinsulation.co.uk/ZGA3050.php"]http://www.planetinsulation.co.uk/ZGA3050.php[/url]

We use it at work quite a lot for lofts/Studding ect.

[bremen]

[quote name='Geddys nose' post='1230077' date='May 13 2011, 04:00 PM']This is a cheap and easy way to insulate and soundproof-

[url="http://www.planetinsulation.co.uk/ZGA3050.php"]http://www.planetinsulation.co.uk/ZGA3050.php[/url]

We use it at work quite a lot for lofts/Studding ect.[/quote]

For sound insulation? Really?

[crez5150]

[quote name='Geddys nose' post='1230077' date='May 13 2011, 04:00 PM']This is a cheap and easy way to insulate and soundproof-

[url="http://www.planetinsulation.co.uk/ZGA3050.php"]http://www.planetinsulation.co.uk/ZGA3050.php[/url]

We use it at work quite a lot for lofts/Studding ect.[/quote]


Heat insulation maybe.... not efficient for sound insulation

[51m0n]

[quote name='Geddys nose' post='1230077' date='May 13 2011, 04:00 PM']This is a cheap and easy way to insulate and soundproof-

[url="http://www.planetinsulation.co.uk/ZGA3050.php"]http://www.planetinsulation.co.uk/ZGA3050.php[/url]

We use it at work quite a lot for lofts/Studding ect.[/quote]

That is completely unsuitable as sound insulation.

No mass = no meaningful sound insulation below 1KHz

[lojo]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='1229988' date='May 13 2011, 02:47 PM']But are you looking for sound-[b][i]proofing [/i][/b]or sound [b][i]reduction[/i][/b]?

Using double-layered PB will be an absolute pain in the arse, and will only apply to the walls anyway - the ceiling/roof will be no better sound-proofed than was originally planned.

If I need to use double-layered PB to reduce the volume, then I'll do it. But if I don't need that level of aggravation to achieve my target, then I'll give it a miss thanks.

[/quote]

If you want best sound reduction within a buget, float a t&g chipboard floor over some slab insulation (jablite or celotex) (use a DPM under it and turn it up the walls over the damp level)

hang DPM down the walls and tuck wall side of floor DPM coming up , create 2x2 studwalls (use larger if your not worried about losing inches) to create a small cavity off the external skin

fill the cavity with dense rockwall and over board with plasterboard (not ply)

This will be the most effective way of doing it using standard building materials and not going into specialist sound reduction material

make sure to ventilate the space on completion

Edited May 13, 2011 by lojo

[icastle]

Crikey!
This garage conversion is starting to sound better than my house!

[TimR]

[quote name='lojo' post='1230184' date='May 13 2011, 05:29 PM']...
hang DPM down the walls and tuck wall side of floor DPM coming up , create 2x2 studwalls (use larger if your not worried about losing inches) to create a small cavity off the external skin
...[/quote]

This has triggered something in my dim memory. I think we may have hung roofing felt from the frame in the air gap.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='lojo' post='1230184' date='May 13 2011, 05:29 PM']If you want best sound reduction within a buget, float a t&g chipboard floor over some slab insulation (jablite or celotex) (use a DPM under it and turn it up the walls over the damp level)[/quote]

Rather than use a damp-proof membrane, I was going to lay [url="http://www.rubberflooring-direct.co.uk/products.php?PID=120&SID=41&secname="]http://www.rubberflooring-direct.co.uk/pro...41&secname=[/url] on top of the existing concrete floor, then 18mm ply on top.

No good?

[TimR]

The floor should also be on a 4x2 or 2x2 frame otherwise the bass will just transmit straight through whatever you use into the concrete and this will transmit into the walls and instead of having a soundproof room you will have a big garage shaped bass speaker.

[Happy Jack]

I was planning to isolate my bass cab by using an Auralex Gramma Pad, so no direct transmission of bass frequencies into the floor.

That would just leave my bass "sound" in the room, hopefully at a volume level that wouldn't be capable of transmitting through the floor, the grass mat thingy, and the concrete.

[Blademan_98]

I was going to sound proof my studio but next door is a drummer / bass player and the other side are just very noisy.

We rehearse at sensible volumes and you can hear it outside but my misses says it is quite faint by the time it gets to the house.

I don't like to rehearse at mega levels anyway because I end up wearing ear plugs!

Just warm and dry is good enough.

(my little studio is down the end of the garden around 50 feet from the house).

[Blademan_98]

[quote name='icastle' post='1230342' date='May 13 2011, 07:45 PM']Crikey!
This garage conversion is starting to sound better than my house! [/quote]

That's what my misses said when I completed my studio.

But as it is the bolt hole I use, it needs to sweet!

[icastle]

[quote name='Blademan_98' post='1230849' date='May 14 2011, 11:55 AM']That's what my misses said when I completed my studio.

But as it is the bolt hole I use, it needs to sweet![/quote]

I've got a 40' x 20' brick built outhouse down the garden that already has electric and water.
It's my project for next year.

[wesfinn]

We converted a garage at the bottom of my friends garden into a rehearsal room about 6 years ago. The sound proofing turned out really well. We basically put a stud work wall around the inside and used rockwool in the cavities followed by plaster board which we then covered in carpet. on the ceiling we put some plasterboard up and then 2 thick duvet covers screwed into that. we also had a duvet hanging over the door. was cosy but worked a treat, we played with an acoustic kit and I had a 4x10 and 1x15 1000watt tech soundsystems rig in there and the guitarist had a 4x12 and a 100watt valve head. never got one complaint from the many neighbors!