New band P.A.

[JTUK]

or best bang for buck.

We are thinking about going to a full range P.A to handle the band.
I think tops and subs would be ok but space might be an issue.

I fancy Martin F series from the little research I have done.

Other stuff in the frame... is Mackie or JBL...we have a bit of a downer on JBL atm, though.
Also EV.

Passive not powered.

Opinions please?

[ironside1966]

I used to have a Martin-audio F2 Rig + subs, 5 way system consisting of, 3 way top box 2x15 bass and 2x18 sub
But even without the extremely heavy twin 18 subs the 2 x 15 cab was more than adequate.
Pros
Good clear punchy sound and I believe it will be far superior to the others mentioned.
Loud
Cons
Very heavy
You tend to lose a lot of top end (more than other rigs I have used) in crowded venues.
Too heavy to lift very high

Edited May 11, 2011 by ironside1966

[Lozz196]

Def go for tops and subs if you have the budget and room for them.

My last band only ever used tops, worked plenty well enough, but I went to see another local band who were using both, and the vocals were just, well everywhere. Not overloud mind, just the right volume, but all of the vocals were crystal clear, and could be understood, as well as heard. Better spread of sound.

And as long as you get the subs that you can put a pole into the top, which then serves as the stand for the tops, it cuts down too many stands etc.

[jim_bass]

Having just bought a new pair of PA speakers for our church, I would definitely recommend a pair of Hill M1's. Not that well heard of, but manufactured by a company called Rock Tech based in York. [url="http://www.rock-tech.co.uk/web-pages/products/sound/m1-active-coaxial-enclosure"]http://www.rock-tech.co.uk/web-pages/produ...axial-enclosure[/url]

They're not cheap though! (About £1400 each)

We have ordered a pair of these, and will be looking to get a sub later. They are active, so don't need a separate amp.

Our old PA speakers are a pair of Studiospares Fortissimo 15" run off a Tapco Juice amp and the M1's blow them out of the water.

DI'ing my bass through an MXR DI always sounded poor through the Studiospares speakers, but the Hill speakers handle the low end really well.

Edited May 11, 2011 by jim_bass

[ben604]

We've just bought an Active Mackie PA and we're very happy with it. 2 x SA1521 Tops and a single SWA1501 sub. It handles 3 vocals, kick, bass (exclusively, I don't run any backline) and it's got bags of headroom. We play medium sized bars/pubs. Solid lows and clear, concise highs, there's nothing lacking.

I'd assume the passive versions of these cabs would perform equally as well.

Cost us £550 for the tops and £250 for the sub, used.

Edited May 11, 2011 by ben604

[crez5150]

Depends on your budget.

We use a K-Array Redline 200 system. Unbelievably lightweight, Extremely compact and gives great projection. It's active also. We have used it for audiences of up to 400 in large rooms such as the dining/function rooms at the NEC.

[JTUK]

hmmm food for thought then..thanks.

We are looking at Martin F15's but they weigh a bit.
Quite like the F8 with subs and there are some on here.

Mackie get decent reviews.
Don't know what it is about JBL...but they don't seem to have the reputation they used to have

[deksawyer]

If you're gong passive, the only option is Nexo in my opinion. New they're expensive, but used, they're much more affordable. Dynacord as well....

I use 2 QSC K12 tops with 2 Mackie 1501 subs. Easy set up, built in crossover and DSP and really sounds good. Since it's active, no crossovers, amps or speaker management to worry about.

D.

[charic]

On a budget I quite like the look of the mackie thumps

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='crez5150' post='1227709' date='May 11 2011, 04:12 PM']Depends on your budget.

We use a K-Array Redline 200 system. Unbelievably lightweight, Extremely compact and gives great projection. It's active also. We have used it for audiences of up to 400 in large rooms such as the dining/function rooms at the NEC.
[/quote]

Those are just fabulous - and a snip at £9000 the pair.

[JakeFoordBass]

We use a HK Lucas 1k rig with our function band and, although the tops are small, it's a very powerful and clear sounding rig at high volumes with a full 7/8 piece band through it.

The sub houses the amp and crossover so all packs away neat and tidy!

Been using it about 2 years now and it's been great!

Can highly recommend it!

[JTUK]

I've seen the HK in action..personally I like the idea of small high end and adding subs for the main weight of sound.

I don't see much point..for example, of F12's plus bins if carry is an issue.

Will check out NEXO..thanks.

I think we have our hearts set on Martin atm... but like all these things..what you start out thinking and end up with, may be two different things.

Ebay and SH is the way we are going atm ..

EV isn't out of the frame either.

[whizzzy]

For many years I had been a big fan of EV gear (the cabs with wooden boxes, not the plastic stuff) and had been really pleased with the sound quality and reliability. Then about 2 years ago after a great deal of research taking into account cost, weight, size and all of the other factors I changed over to Logic System. Our current rig now uses a 1 x 12" + horn top can and a 2 x 15" bass cab each side and wow, what a difference. I'm now in the process of changing all of the monitor cabs to Logic System as well which speaks for itself. The rig is used by an 8 piece soul and Motown functions band with everything going through it so you'll understand what it needs to handle.

For sure there are better systems out there such as Nexo, Meyer, etc but pound for pound I seriously recommend taking a look at Logic (the older series). But probably the most important factor to consider in whatever system you end up with is that everything needs to be set up right. As it seems you are going for the passive route (which is my preference any day of the week) then I strongly recommend that you use an active crossover and bi-amp the rig. This approach is streets ahead of any passive crossover system and really lifts the overall sound quality and dynamics. The down side is that you need an electronic crossover or LMS (loudspeaker management system) and a second amp to drive tops and subs but this does maximise the potential of the system.

Once you get to this stage you need to ensure that the crossover or LMS is set correctly to match your power amps and the speakers. The benefit with using something like Logic, Martin or Nexo is that they will have produced active crossover networks or system controllers to run with their speakers so you can either go for a turn-key solution with one of those or if you choose the LMS route such as a DBX PA Driverack or the Behringer equivalent then you can talk to the engineers at Logic or Martin, get the correct settings off them, program them in and away you go. I did exactly this with my Logic System rig and I was truly amazed how it made the rig come alive. It sounded good before but sounded brilliant afterwards.

If you go the JBL, Mackie or random speaker box route I fear you may have a bit of a struggle on your hands to get this sort of information from them - I don't know as I've never dealt with them direct. And to play around yourself or get an experienced sound engineer on the case could take you quite a few hours or even days to get the system working at its optimum level.

As you've intimated, second hand is the way to go (which is what I have done) and with a bit of patience and careful shopping around you should be able to put together a nice system without having to re-mortgage the house, wife, dog and pet rabbit!

Btw, if you want to do some research on Logic gear a useful tip is to Google 'Logic System' and then Logic Systems'. The singular is the correct name but many folks use the plural and this will help come up with a completely different list of hits.

Welcome to the wonderful world (and minefield) of PA systems.

Col

[JTUK]

Thanks for that..will check them out.

Faves atm is a Martin rig with a controller.
I think it all comes down to what we can all carry and if we need to split it for small gigs

I favour F12's as they would handle small places on their own vocally.. and add S12 subs for bigger places.

Martin don't suggest this..they suggest F10 but there is only about 5lb difference if using top hats/stands.

[mikhay77]

We have been using a Mackie rig for 3 years now,2x 1801 subs and 2 450 tops and a mackie desk.Got a good deal for the lot,we usually put everything through it,full drum set up,2 guitars,bass and 3 voacals and it handles it all.Indistructable bins and great sounding tops,even used em at about 15 open air jobbies to a few hundred people.Always had great feedback about the sound,nice and load with great punchy botteom end,using a few compressors and great clarity with vocals too,mind you it helps when you have a sound engineer too,lol.Played through a lot of pa's and pound for pound its pretty hard to beat for size,weight and cash

[JTUK]

Not against Mackie but we have good amps so feel that going powered would be putting money into something we don't need and could use elsewhere.

I would like us to spend £1000 tops and pay it off very quickly through gigs. We only need cabs
I am thinking Martin F12 and S12 ( SH, of course ) and that should do away with the need for a controller.
If we use smaller tops, the maybe a controller would be the way to go...in fact I am sure it would be.

Nexo looks great but way too expensive for our purposes. HK, Mackie and Martin are in the frame...maybe EV/RCF as well
It is ironic that we have some perfect full range JBL's but they are just too big and heavy. There are JBL's and JBL's of course but we can't carry these.

We wouldn't use a engr but would hope we could stay disciplined enough.
For all our open air gigs the FOH is hired-in...but it would be nice if we could stretch to a decent sized marquee P.A if we had to.

The more I read here, the more I am thinking 12" tops with 12 or 15" Subs...as compact as possible for carry in individual cars.

[xgsjx]

For outdoor stuff, I've always been happy with the sound of Peavey HiSys or EV cabs.
For indoors, I recently heard a DAS pa system & sounded very nice.
But, I would have thought the best bang for buck would be to build some BFM tops & subs?

[JTUK]

[quote name='xgsjx' post='1232710' date='May 16 2011, 08:42 AM']For outdoor stuff, I've always been happy with the sound of Peavey HiSys or EV cabs.
For indoors, I recently heard a DAS pa system & sounded very nice.
But, I would have thought the best bang for buck would be to build some BFM tops & subs?[/quote]


If we are careful we can go Martin..have seen some cabs that we like the sound of.

DAS are a name I know little about so good shout there, thanks.

EV ..? could probably get more spec for the £ but I am leaning towards an English made company ( Martin ) ..even though we will not go to the 'new' prices for the cabs.

Turbosound were in the frame but I was told they were ( Some..?? ) made in China and that brings around to our JBL problem... or perceived problem.

[chris_b]

I'd start with the Dynacord Powermate 1000. Then I'd probably look at EV cabs.

[markstuk]

I've got a pair of Active LD Systems Stinger 15A's (I use them for keyboards) that give our main Mackie 1521 tops a run for their money... They use BMS/Eminence Kappalite drivers and sound very articulate and clean... LD do unpowered versions as well - take a look at Thomann.. [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/ld_systems_ldeb_152_stinger.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/gb/ld_systems_ldeb_152_stinger.htm[/url].. However the powered versions (apparently using B&O class D amps) are not that much more expensive...


[quote name='chris_b' post='1233138' date='May 16 2011, 03:13 PM']I'd start with the Dynacord Powermate 1000. Then I'd probably look at EV cabs.[/quote]

Edited May 16, 2011 by markstuk

[Shambo]

My vote would be NEXO as well. PS15's are the bees knees.

[xgsjx]

Oh, another thought is the Bose Array Thingybob. A church I visit now & again has one for the band & it sounds pretty good, but I think they're over your budget new. S/H maybe???

Again, what about BFM? (Bill, mind my commission )

[JTUK]

If we have to build them ourselves then that is out.

EV is decent and widely available and would allow tops and subs..whereas Martin would be a one cab solution but then they wouldn't be light. Talking about ICT500's

[warwickhunt]

Not sure of the size of the venues that you intend playing but unless you can get your subs (assuming you are looking at a pair) a good distance a part (sure BFM/AC/others will give the required distance), then you are better off just using a single sub... or stack the two subs together!

We went active last year and bought some used RCF gear with a Yamaha desk and we've never looked back. In the region of 2.4k rig and despite the six piece band going through it at some venues, we've got loads of headroom, cost us about £2k which was a pair of used 750 tops, single 900w bass bin and a new desk. The weight (bin aside) is great and it's an easy one man lift to get the tops onto the pole/stand.

[JTUK]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='1233382' date='May 16 2011, 06:22 PM']Not sure of the size of the venues that you intend playing but unless you can get your subs (assuming you are looking at a pair) a good distance a part (sure BFM/AC/others will give the required distance), then you are better off just using a single sub... or stack the two subs together!

We went active last year and bought some used RCF gear with a Yamaha desk and we've never looked back. In the region of 2.4k rig and despite the six piece band going through it at some venues, we've got loads of headroom, cost us about £2k which was a pair of used 750 tops, single 900w bass bin and a new desk. The weight (bin aside) is great and it's an easy one man lift to get the tops onto the pole/stand.[/quote]

Venues will be a decent size pub and small outdoors.
I had thought about that... I guess it all depends what tops we get and whether it is easier to stack with a pole on top of the sub etc ..
The ICT500 which are favourites at the moment are pretty full on full range anyway so one one sub will suffice.

ICT300's are more compact and would work with S12's subs, I think...or the ICS unit but that is a big beast.