Advice appreciated for gigging amp

[MattB]

Hi - so, the story so far...

I have a Line 6 150LD which generally speaking is fine and dandy. I can carry it around as not super-heavy, it has a decent tone, and kicks out enough power to do most general pub-type gigs.

Then I have a 12 year olf Trace Elliot 260w Combo that weighs a ton, needs wheels, and kills humans dead on volume setting 1.5

I kind want something in between that can carry in a big venue like large social halls etc, but isn't a two-man job. I've been recommended Ashdown 300w, but have no experience of these.

I'm really just looking for recommendations from any bassists doing the same kind of pub/club live gigs as to what they find a decent mid-sized amp that'll do the job without killing me and drinking up all my petrol.

hope you can help - any replies much appreciated!

Matt

[chris_b]

I'd get one of the TC amps that are coming up here at the moment.

[razze06]

[quote name='MattB' post='1227651' date='May 11 2011, 03:30 PM']Hi - so, the story so far...

I have a Line 6 150LD which generally speaking is fine and dandy. I can carry it around as not super-heavy, it has a decent tone, and kicks out enough power to do most general pub-type gigs.

Then I have a 12 year olf Trace Elliot 260w Combo that weighs a ton, needs wheels, and kills humans dead on volume setting 1.5

I kind want something in between that can carry in a big venue like large social halls etc, but isn't a two-man job. I've been recommended Ashdown 300w, but have no experience of these.

I'm really just looking for recommendations from any bassists doing the same kind of pub/club live gigs as to what they find a decent mid-sized amp that'll do the job without killing me and drinking up all my petrol.

hope you can help - any replies much appreciated!

Matt[/quote]

I'll be just the first to say that you're probably better off with a separate head and cab(s). More versatility and easier to carry, plus you can upgrade each bit individually etc etc.

If it has to be a combo, ashdowns are a definite option, also Hartke are a favourite of mine. Old peaveys are another cheap and very cheerful option.

If you have money to spend, the list can be endless! Markbass, Phil Jones, Mesa boogie...

[xgsjx]

How much is your budget? A Markbass combo could easily replace both the combos that you have & pop up now & again s/h for @ £6-700.

[Lozz196]

Main considerations on this are budget, and type of band.

If its a rock band, with two guitars, I`d be dubious about only using a 2x10.

There are some fairly light cabs about at the moment, but this of course depends on funds available. Mention that, and the recommendations will come flooding in, no doubt.

[MattB]

Many thanks for all answers.

Band wise it is 90% a 3-piece, but still needs good output as some reasonably big old pubs and social halls. The other 10% is random deps which mostly just add a keyboard or second guitar to the mix.

Budget wise I'd rather not spend over £500 but appreciate that if this isn't possible so be it. I'm not very techy to be honest and only recently realised that watts don't equal decibels (if you know what I mean). I had a 50w Peavy amp that I swear belted out more than my current 150w Line 6.

I am happy to have a head and cabs - I only reverted to combos as that's what I've always used.

When you recommend Ashdown or Hatke what watt do you think should be my min. A guy at Bass Cellar recommended a 300 Ashdown evo II, but with no real experience I am just reluctant to crack off £450. I bought the LD150 for £370 and when i tried to trade it back the shop said they'd only give me £150 for it, so I really don't want to shoot myself in the foot again like that.

Can I also ask where you'd suggest I keep my eyes on for good deals? Here? Ebay? etc etc

again - thanks for all your responses. I'm sure I appear clueless, but I've only had a few combos in my 20 years playing and have just never really thought beyond what I had...

Cheers

Matt

[chris_b]

For your budget, Thurbs is your man:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=134736&hl="]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=134736&hl=[/url]

A lot of bass for you and for the money.

[Ghost_Bass]

In your case (if you like the Trace tone) i would go for a Markbass CMD121P. Big sound with lots of punch in a compact and light unit.

[Lozz196]

Def look on here, rather than new, something suitable will come along.

May be worth getting a 2x10 combo, with matching cab. That way use the combo for rehearsals/small gigs, add the cab for the larger venues. This set-up would be worth considering for this:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=128446&hl=eden"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=128446&hl=eden[/url]

[MattB]

Again - thanks for all your input. Very much appreciated...

In an attempt to vaguely grasp some of the techy side of this, in real-world terms, what should I be focusing on when I see things like "450W / 8 Ohms" or "300W continuous, 600W programme" or "300 watt 8 Ohm bass cabinet "

Just what should I care about?



Cheers

Matt

[JellyKnees]

I'm trying to sell a Little Mark 250 head at the moment...

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=134847&st=0&p=1222913&"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...;p=1222913&[/url]

For 150watts into 8 ohms, it's very loud and extremely clear...it's just wasn't driving my barefaced big one cab quite enough, but with a more suitably matched cab, it would be excellent.

[BassBod]

I'll say it...don't get hung up on the numbers. The published ratings for an amp don't really tell you what they can do - more of a (sometimes optimistic?) statement of intent. My old SWR head is rated a measly 160w into 8ohms but works wonderfully in many smaller situations. A lot of the results you hear are a combination of factors...output power, speaker sensitivity..cab design but also the room you play in.

Its a balance between the type of sound you want...the power you'll need (and a bit spare for those gigs) and what you can/are happy to carry around and load in/out. Don't forget the DI option...it can let you think of your amp as a musical instrument, that is then amplified by the PA....saving you from having to carry heavy speakers that mostly only deafen you onstage!

You'll get good deals and mostly honest informed opinions here. Its worth asking around.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='Lozz196' post='1227737' date='May 11 2011, 04:39 PM']Main considerations on this are budget, and type of band.

If its a rock band, with two guitars, I`d be dubious about only using a 2x10.[/quote]

I use a 2x12 for everything these days, it's a one-handed carry and with a 500W head supplying the juice it easily keeps up with / drowns out two guitarists.

[Earbrass]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' post='1228643' date='May 12 2011, 12:24 PM']In your case (if you like the Trace tone) i would go for a Markbass CMD121P. Big sound with lots of punch in a compact and light unit.[/quote]

Like this one...

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=125276"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=125276[/url]

[MattB]

[quote name='BassBod' post='1228725' date='May 12 2011, 01:09 PM']I'll say it...don't get hung up on the numbers. The published ratings for an amp don't really tell you what they can do - more of a (sometimes optimistic?) statement of intent. My old SWR head is rated a measly 160w into 8ohms but works wonderfully in many smaller situations. A lot of the results you hear are a combination of factors...output power, speaker sensitivity..cab design but also the room you play in.

Its a balance between the type of sound you want...the power you'll need (and a bit spare for those gigs) and what you can/are happy to carry around and load in/out. Don't forget the DI option...it can let you think of your amp as a musical instrument, that is then amplified by the PA....saving you from having to carry heavy speakers that mostly only deafen you onstage!

You'll get good deals and mostly honest informed opinions here. Its worth asking around.[/quote]

Thanks Bassbod - good point. I guess it's all I know. I know my Line 6 LD150 isn't enough, and know my Trace 260w is WAY enough (about 2/10 on the output dial) but ye old trace is killing my back and drinking petrol. So kinda guessed I needed a modern 300w simply by the numbers. Oh, if only t'were that easy eh!

I guess that's why i just wanted recommendations from educated folks so I could put all my faith in them!

I've looked at an awsome ashdown tower for sale someone recommended, but fear it''ll end up as weighty as the Trace in total.

Still, fun looking and learning!

Thanks again to all!

M

[Patster1969]

Sorry to hijack your thread question Matt but I have a similar issue. I have recently joined a band with 2 guitarists & a (loud) drummer, playing classic rock. For rehearsals, I have been using a Line 6 Lowdown Studio 110, which has 75 watts and has been absolutely fine for rehearsals (it has actually surprised the other band members with the amount of noise you get out of it!).
However, we may possibly have some small gigs soon, so am trying to work out what the best to do is. This is the only amp I've had, as have only been playing about 2 & 1/2 years, & haven't played in a band before where I've had to supply my backline. Like you, I was under the impression that watts equal sound volume, so am not sure what the best option would be. Someone did tell me that the bass amp should have twice the 'wattage' of the guitarist's amp but is that not the case? Also, as Matt said, are there a few golden rules/unique points that I need to take into account (watts to ohms, etc)?

Any help/guidance would be heavily appreciated. I'll be honest & say that I would be apprehensive in lashing out a huge amount of money as I don't know how far this band might progress.

Cheers all
Pat

[MattB]

[quote name='Earbrass' post='1228730' date='May 12 2011, 01:11 PM']Like this one...

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=125276"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=125276[/url][/quote]

Oooh, that's pretty... and near where I live... The only thing that scares me (other than the price tag obv!) is the phrase "mostly recommended for smaller clubs, studios and rehearsal use." from the web site. My big issue right now is volume over anything else so not really the description I was hoping for...

M

[MattB]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1228729' date='May 12 2011, 01:11 PM']I use a 2x12 for everything these days, it's a one-handed carry and with a 500W head supplying the juice it easily keeps up with / drowns out two guitarists.[/quote]

Any particular combinations of heads / cabs you'd recommend?

Cheers

M

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='MattB' post='1228758' date='May 12 2011, 01:23 PM']Any particular combinations of heads / cabs you'd recommend?[/quote]

Well I use a Hartke LH500 which is a really fantastic sounding head and for the money is unbeatable. Racked up you can carry it in one hand, but if you want something lighter that will go in a bag or whatever then you're looking at spending twice as much on a Markbass or Genz Benz head.

My cab is a Schroeder and to be honest for what they are, I think they are overpriced, but my 1212L certainly does the business and is mega portable, and I don't miss anything about the old 4x10 cabs I used to lug around. I would never go back to the old school gear I used to use.

[xgsjx]

I think any good 1x15, 2x10 or 2x12 with a decent amp (or a combo) will see you well. I gig with 2 loud guitarists & a loud drummer & use just a Markbass 2x10 (& it beats the crap outta the 4x10 Trace I used before) & those Hartke amps get good reviews on here too.

[MattB]

[quote name='xgsjx' post='1228992' date='May 12 2011, 04:33 PM']I think any good 1x15, 2x10 or 2x12 with a decent amp (or a combo) will see you well. I gig with 2 loud guitarists & a loud drummer & use just a Markbass 2x10 (& it beats the crap outta the 4x10 Trace I used before) & those Hartke amps get good reviews on here too. [/quote]

Cheers xg - out of interest (see - i'm STILL hung up on the numbers!) what watt is the Markbass you're using? Got any pics?
Cheers

M

[BassBod]

The Hartke LH500 is a good one to use as a measure - although its a new amp, and a fairly simple (and affordable) design, its pretty powerful and portable. Potential downside is the "fender tone stack" preamp design - I like it but many don't. And the "pre-only DI". A used one would be a great starting point for a portable all-purpose mini stack.

[JTUK]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1228641' date='May 12 2011, 12:23 PM']For your budget, Thurbs is your man:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=134736&hl="]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=134736&hl=[/url]

A lot of bass for you and for the money.[/quote]


hard to argue with that...

[xgsjx]

I'm using a CMD 102p combo. They're 300w - 8Ω & 500w - 4Ω (to get 4Ω you add a 2nd 8Ω cab). What's impressive is the amount of travel that the cones have compared to a lot of others.

Monkonthehill has one for sale [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=125920"]here.[/url] & I'm sure there's another on BC for sale.

The amp section in the Markbass combos is a LMII (or LMIII on the new ones). Brilliant wee amps that get raved about on here & you can pick up a LMII for @ £300-350.

Have a nose about the "for sale" section & do a search for your gear to see if it's worth more than you was offered, then decide if it's worth selling or keeping. You could even take a nosey around & see what gear you like & end up with huge GAS

Have fun searching & remember, there's a whole community here to help you decide. If you can, get to a shop likes of "the Bass Merchant" or "Bass Direct" & try some stuff out.

[Truckstop]

FAO Patster!

Hello mate, yeah it can be tricky making the leap from bedroom to the stage. Everyone's been in that situation, trust me!

There are no absolutes when in comes to what is written down in the specs and what kind of volume you actually perceive. As a basic rule of thumb, valve watts tend to be 'louder' than Solid State watts though.
Example in point being the Ashdown Little Bastard. Only 30w, but it'll easily keep up with my GK 400RB (350w) through the same cabinet.
The fact of the matter is, is that these days most venues will DI the bass head (provided you have a DI output) and project the sound from the bass head through the PA system for large gigs (your cab will just be for monitoring purposes effectively), and if you play smaller gigs, you really won't need to worry about getting a 1000w 16x10 mega stack. A simple 300-400w head with a 2x10/2x12/1x15 will provide enough volume.

Another basic rule of thumb is this: more speakers = more volume.
If you have a 500w amp, it will 'sound' louder through a 4x10 than a 2x10. Basically, this is because 4 speakers will 'move' more air than 2. So if you have a 500w amp with a 2x10 cab and you want more volume, buy another/a bigger cab. Don't bother spending money on a more powerful head because the cab will still only be able 'move' the same amount of air.

Ohmage is slightly more complicated.
Essentially, you want the head and the cab to have the same ohmage for optimum performance. However, if you have a cab and a head that don't match, it's not the end of the world. You won't break anything by mixing up the ohmage.
The ohmage controls, or rather, dictates how much power is sent to each speaker. It's important to know what's going on especially if you are adding on extension cabs, for example.

Case in point, I have a 350w 8ohm head and a 2x10 8ohm cab. 350w distributed between 2 10" speakers. However, in the neverending pursuit of more volume, I want to add on a 4x10 8ohm cab. So now, 350w of power is being distributed between 2 cabs equally, however, this means that both cabs are receiving 175w. So, in the 2x10 cab, each speaker is recieving 87.5w but in the 4x10 cab, each speaker is recieving only 43.75w. This means that the speakers in the 2x10 are being pushed harder and will distort at a lower volume than the 4x10.
So, it's important to make sure that when you are adding an extension cab, you need to make sure that the ohmage ensures equal wattage dispersion and then you make sure that the extension cab can handle the watts being delivered to it.

Hope it helps a little and, of course, IME!

Truckstop