waltsdog Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 I have a Little Mark iii and have found I need to run it with the gain up really high to get enough volume out of it, just wondering of this is normal? I'm using a barefaced midget and compact but don't always use them both together, playing with 2 guitarists using 1x12 100w combos and a not hugely loud drummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Hughes Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 That sounds odd to me. I run a passive Jazz into a Markbass LMK into 2 1x12 cabs. With the input gain set between noon and 2pm I rarely have to turn the master volume past 10am. The loudest gig I do is a seven piece wedding band with a massive PA and it's plenty. Sounds like something's wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 I think they recommend that the gain should be set just below the clip light coming on and the master adjusted accordingly. If you have them both "high" then you must be in a loud band....? When you say volume, do you mean what you can hear on stage or what the audience hears- as I understand they can be two different things. Don't use Barefaced cabs but the combination with a LMII you have is spoken highly of: I'm sure if you asked Alex he could explain in some detail if you may have an issue or not ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Light touch? Low pickups? Quiet pickups? Thin strings? Low battery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Set the gain to match the output of your bass by playing as loud as you will in performance and turn the gain up until the blue clip light flickers, then back off the gain about 10%. Now use the master volume to set the level. It doesn't matter what setting the master volume control is at, providing the speakers are not distorting and the level is adequate for your needs. The volume level will also be different at different listening positions and it can be deceptive when listening close to the rig as compared to a few yards away. Also the position of the rig in relation to walls, along with the floor material and room acoustics all affect volume levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 [quote name='waltsdog' post='1227870' date='May 11 2011, 06:49 PM']....I have a Little Mark iii and have found I need to run it with the gain up really high to get enough volume out of it, just wondering of this is normal? I'm using a barefaced midget and compact but don't always use them both together, playing with 2 guitarists using 1x12 100w combos and a not hugely loud drummer....[/quote] What is "really high"? Where do you have the Master volume and the volume on the bass? Is it quiet with both cabs separately and together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waltsdog Posted May 11, 2011 Author Share Posted May 11, 2011 Thanks for the replies, ill try and fill in the blanks. I do play with a fairly light touch and by volume I mean more out front, as I can usually hear myself fairly well in most places we play. My settings were gain about 12 o'clock (no clipping) and volume about 2 o'clock with the 2 cabs in a maybe 200 capacity room (albeit a very odd shaped room) everything else on the amp is dead flat. The bass is a passive dingwall abz on standard strings. Last gig I used just the midget in a small room maybe 50-75 capacity, cab up on a stool about 2ft running gain at 2 o'clock and vol up around 3 o'clock. I don't think I've ever had the clip light come on using this bass, when I used a stingray it would clip with the gain on 9 o'clock. I'm going to try Redstripers and york5stringers suggestion as I always want to keep the gain as low as possible rather than adjusting to the clip light. I'll also check the pickup heights. There is also the possibility that the band is far louder than I think it is as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 As above, I wouldnt worry about cranking the gain a bit more. Ive had a little mark 2 in the past and unlike amps of old (Trace Elliot are prime culprits) the knobs are all pretty linear. It used to be the case that you'd get clipping around 12 o'clock on a passive bass when in reality the gain was about 80%. Also remember that by setting the gain higher and master lower you'll be getting a higher signal to noise ratio - I think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algmusic Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Sorry if I have read this wrong.. but if you're using one cab.. you're getting 300w, which sometimes, I find isn't enough, but if you still have problems with both cabs, you're running at 500w, so that should be more than loud enough.. very loud.. Try a different cab and a different amp, different bass, different leads.. (change only one piece at a time to isolate the problem) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) I think the culprit is either the gain not being set as high as it could be, the Dingwall not putting out enough, but more than likely the 1x12 cabinet is not enough for the gig. I wouldnt think the 1x15 plus 1x12 should need more volume, and if it does, something isnt right. I am thinking of using a 1x12, but its for an acoustic/bass/drums trio, not a heavy rock band. Hope you get it sorted! Edited May 12, 2011 by Musicman20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 [quote name='waltsdog' post='1228258' date='May 11 2011, 11:35 PM']My settings were gain about 12 o'clock (no clipping) and volume about 2 o'clock with the 2 cabs in a maybe 200 capacity room (albeit a very odd shaped room) everything else on the amp is dead flat. The bass is a passive dingwall abz on standard strings.[/quote] 12 o'clock and 2 o'clock is absolutely fine. [quote name='waltsdog' post='1228258' date='May 11 2011, 11:35 PM']Last gig I used just the midget in a small room maybe 50-75 capacity, cab up on a stool about 2ft running gain at 2 o'clock and vol up around 3 o'clock.[/quote] 2 o'clock and 3 o'clock is fine too! [quote name='waltsdog' post='1228258' date='May 11 2011, 11:35 PM']...I always want to keep the gain as low as possible rather than adjusting to the clip light.[/quote] Why do you always want to keep the gain as low as possible? It's there so you can use it. Turn it up to the max if need be. If it sounds good, then it is good. Ignore any flashing lights, use your ears! At a bassbash some time ago chris_b and I were messing around with some Barefaced cabs and his Thunderfunk, using his Lakland 5, which has fairly middling gauge strings and action and he's not someone who plucks softly. Despite that when I played I was about twice as loud as him, which means that the amp needs 10x the gain to get him as loud as me. If you pluck softly he could easily be twice as loud as you, so that another 10x gain. Between you and me there could be a gain difference of 100x. That's a lot of extra gain for the amp to add but fortunately most amps have that range. The Midget can easily handle a gig that size if given enough power! If you need more output, turn up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waltsdog Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 It seems to boil down to my basic misunderstanding of the controls and misconception that lots of gain = bad which everyone has pretty much said is not the case providing the sound is good. I have a gig on Saturday so I'll be setting up the amp as suggested and report back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 My 2 cents... Set all eq anf filters flat Set the bass volume and pup selection how you like Turn the master volume and gain completely off Play on the open E string as loud as you play your loudest Wind up the gain until the light flashes, back it off until it just doesnt - the amp is now running with its theoretical maximum input level before clipping. Good for maximising output to noise ratio! Note that MB dont advise you push harder than this, however much you like the sound... Wind up the Master volume to gigging levels Tweak the eq to get what you need - cut rather than boost if possible, it gives btter signal to noise ratios and makes it less likely that you will drive the power amp section harder than its intended to be. One BIG caveat. Not all ampos necessarily sound their best with the input gain maxxed, sometimes its worth trying to back off the input gain a bit further and make up the loss with the master volume, if you have the headroom. See if the tone changes for the better. This is gain staging - its finding the absiolute best sounding sweet spot. It is not always the same as the best S/N ratio. On a loud gig where you are lacking headroom, this is not an option.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Definitely heed the advice on Markbass gain, stick underneath the light flashing...the amp 'clipping' is not nice on these amps. Genz and TC are a little different, as in some gain pushing is ok, but Markbass is a little different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 [quote name='waltsdog' post='1227870' date='May 11 2011, 06:49 PM']I have a Little Mark iii and have found I need to run it with the gain up really high to get enough volume out of it, just wondering of this is normal? I'm using a barefaced midget and compact but don't always use them both together, playing with 2 guitarists using 1x12 100w combos and a not hugely loud drummer.[/quote] Well with the 18volt preamp of the big al the gain on my old LMTube was only just above 9 o'clock. And my stingray not much Higher. In the manual it will say how to set the input gain right. I doubt that you will need much more volume as I found the midget plenty loud on it own with 300watts into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalpy Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 [quote name='Prime_BASS' post='1229425' date='May 12 2011, 10:44 PM']Well with the 18volt preamp of the big al the gain on my old LMTube was only just above 9 o'clock. And my stingray not much Higher. In the manual it will say how to set the input gain right. I doubt that you will need much more volume as I found the midget plenty loud on it own with 300watts into it.[/quote] Interesting. The gain on my LM Tube doesn't go past 8 before the light and the clipping come into play. I've been wondering if it will affect my ultimate volume when it comes to it. I really like the sound of this amp and the weight, but I must admit there are a few niggles that stop it being the answer to all my prayers. GAS for a Tonehammer 500! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 [quote name='scalpy' post='1229595' date='May 13 2011, 07:34 AM']Interesting. The gain on my LM Tube doesn't go past 8 before the light and the clipping come into play. I've been wondering if it will affect my ultimate volume when it comes to it. I really like the sound of this amp and the weight, but I must admit there are a few niggles that stop it being the answer to all my prayers. GAS for a Tonehammer 500![/quote] No it doesnt work like that at all. The input gain control allows you to tailor the amount of level hitting the power amp given a very wide range of input levels to the system. So if you have a very quiet instrument you need to turn up the input gain a long way to make up for that. If you have a very high output instrument you need only turn the input gain up a little bit. The effect on the signal is to make sure that in both cases the level hitting the power amp section is the same, regardless of the output of your instrument. In other words if you set the input gain correctly then the output of your instrument makes no difference to the output of the amp at the speaker connection. I have an 18v Roscoe and a passive Squire VMJ, guess which one is hotter! However if I change the input gain on my sa450 when I change bass the output from the speakers is the same volume, and the amp is happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Wazoo Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 [quote name='yorks5stringer' post='1227886' date='May 11 2011, 07:01 PM']I think they recommend that the gain should be set just below the clip light coming on and the master adjusted accordingly.[/quote] This! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 A lot of the difference between different ss amps, is just because different manufacturers will set the clip light to come on at different points. Some amps it comes on well before actual clipping, others it runs very close. Obviously with a valve pre it's a bit different. In this case, if the amp and cab are loud enough with the 'ray then it's almost certainly a case of getting the gain structure sorted rather than needing to replace either of them. Use your ears, crank it up and if it sounds clean then it's all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 I did a gig a couple of weeks ago at a beer festival of @ 150-200 folk & used my MB 2x10 combo on it's own (didn't use the PA), which has a LMII for the amp. My bass is an Ibby SR1000 (9v active). I had the input gain just above 9 o'clock & the out @ at 11 o'clock & was well loud enough. So it sounds like one of the main factors is the fact that your bass is passive. But like is said, there's nowt wrong with turning it up as far as needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Just to add, what about a booster? There's a few in the "fx for sale" & Bubinga5 has one for £50 that might be your answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waltsdog Posted May 15, 2011 Author Share Posted May 15, 2011 Thanks for all the advice. I set up the amp the correct way checking the clip light last night and set it a bit under clipping although it doesn't clip until the gain is very nearly all the way up. I had plenty of volume on tap, so much in fact I couldn't get the past about 10 o'clock without the possibility of blowing some windows out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Excellent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
only4 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Here are my experiences with the MarkBass input gain. I have an SA450 head and i recently aquired a CMD121H combo. When using the SA450 I have the gain set to about 12 o'clock to make sure that it doesn't clip, but when i plugged in to the combo for the first time i was suprised that i could wind the gain up to around 5 o'clock before there was any sign of the clip light coming on. I presume that the two amps just have different input sensitivity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algmusic Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 [quote name='only4' post='1232847' date='May 16 2011, 11:19 AM']Here are my experiences with the MarkBass input gain. I have an SA450 head and i recently aquired a CMD121H combo. When using the SA450 I have the gain set to about 12 o'clock to make sure that it doesn't clip, but when i plugged in to the combo for the first time i was suprised that i could wind the gain up to around 5 o'clock before there was any sign of the clip light coming on. I presume that the two amps just have different input sensitivity?[/quote] That's really crazy.. but my little mark always need a bit more gain when I had it.. the advice on the clipping is really the best OP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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