Are we emotionally mature enough to learn?

[xilddx]

I listened to the interview again. He's really criticising the monetary system surrounding education for sending him students who are full of sh*t. One wonders why he doesn't boot those students out if he detests that system so much. Maybe he's resentful he has to be a part of it.

[burgundymouse]

As a new music student myself, having only taken up bass in November I feel inclined to comment. Good students need motivation.Without it you don't get through the downs of learning. Hence is taken me until I'm 33 to try to learn an instrument properly with good fundamentals taken from lessons. Its great when your teacher says you're coming on and they're pleased with your progress because that means you don't feel disheartened about shelling out hard earned cash on lessons, and even better when you can see how much you've learned. Its then relatively easy to be all cocky and confident, getting a few tabs off the internet and practising until you have someone else's work down to a t. That doesn't make you a good musician - it makes you good at learning by rote. It only took a couple of sessions at the local jam night for me to beg my teacher to punish me for not learning my scales and their application properly. I went into my lessons initially thinking I wanted to learn how to play Rage Against the Machine or Nirvana or Hendrix or whatever, however you realise there is much more satisfaction from knowing that with a bit of application you too can produce something shiny and new. OK - maybe not quite yet but as long as I get these scales nailed I think I'm in with a shot! As you can probably tell, I''m in one of the lows of learning where some people would just say" its too hard "Nand give up and that's when a good teacher doesn't just dish out critcism - they give you a new goal to help you get over the low. I think that's different though to telling every student they are the next Jaco . Hope that makes sense?

Edited May 16, 2011 by burgundymouse

[risingson]

[quote name='silddx' post='1233447' date='May 16 2011, 07:03 PM']I listened to the interview again. He's really criticising the monetary system surrounding education for sending him students who are full of sh*t. One wonders why he doesn't boot those students out if he detests that system so much. Maybe he's resentful he has to be a part of it.[/quote]

He's resentful he has to do it in the first place IMO. I think he is an incredible musician, astounding in fact but he's clearly very bitter.

[xilddx]

[quote name='burgundymouse' post='1233780' date='May 16 2011, 10:51 PM']As a new music student myself, having only taken up bass in November I feel inclined to comment. Good students need motivation.Without it you don't get through the downs of learning. Hence is taken me until I'm 33 to try to learn an instrument properly with good fundamentals taken from lessons. Its great when your teacher says you're coming on and they're pleased with your progress because that means you don't feel disheartened about shelling out hard earned cash on lessons, and even better when you can see how much you've learned. Its then relatively easy to be all cocky and confident, getting a few tabs off the internet and practising until you have someone else's work down to a t. That doesn't make you a good musician - it makes you good at learning by rote. It only took a couple of sessions at the local jam night for me to beg my teacher to punish me for not learning my scales and their application properly. I went into my lessons initially thinking I wanted to learn how to play Rage Against the Machine or Nirvana or Hendrix or whatever, however you realise there is much more satisfaction from knowing that with a bit of application you too can produce something shiny and new. OK - maybe not quite yet but as long as I get these scales nailed I think I'm in with a shot! As you can probably tell, I''m in one of the lows of learning where some people would just say" its too hard "Nand give up and that's when a good teacher doesn't just dish out critcism - they give you a new goal to help you get over the low. I think that's different though to telling every student they are the next Jaco . Hope that makes sense?[/quote]
Possibly a sexual issue of some description?

[burgundymouse]

[quote name='silddx' post='1233792' date='May 16 2011, 11:05 PM']Possibly a sexual issue of some description?[/quote]

[JayPH]

Through no fault of anyones a real shift in the way people learn has happened. This is entirely down to the Internet. Information is instant.

When I was learning bass and guitar many moons ago there weren't a lot of resources available if you had no money. You basically just learned by listening to records and from your mates.

Now, of course there are a vast array of Websites and youTube videos and the like showing you how to do stuff. Information is more accessible and instant. Young people are used to having information dealt to them in small fast chunks and like to see quick results.

It's not that they are lazy, it's just the way things are now.

Branford Marsalis might have had a bad day and as a teacher its up to him to engage his students' but Universities will take anyone who pays now and the student has a lot of power. I think this might be what is pissing BM off, because he doesn't really have a say in what the prerequisites are for budding students.

[Doddy]

[quote name='JayPH' post='1233822' date='May 16 2011, 11:36 PM']Through no fault of anyones a real shift in the way people learn has happened. This is entirely down to the Internet. Information is instant.

When I was learning bass and guitar many moons ago there weren't a lot of resources available if you had no money. You basically just learned by listening to records and from your mates.

Now, of course there are a vast array of Websites and youTube videos and the like showing you how to do stuff. Information is more accessible and instant. Young people are used to having information dealt to them in small fast chunks and like to see quick results.[/quote]

That's a good point,but the thing with learning via the internet is that beginners generally don't know the difference between the good
and bad information. For every good website like StudyBass,there is an Expert Village.For every good Youtube lesson,there are a hundred
really bad ones.
Internet lessons may be easily accessible,but when used alone it can promote the wrong message. Why train your ear when you can just
copy a guy on Youtube? Why learn to read when there are thousands of free tabs? Why learn scales when you can just copy this fingering
pattern?
Don't get me wrong,I think the internet is a majorly important resource and there is a wealth of great material to study,but I also think that
there is a lot of bad stuff out there that could potentially cause more harm than good to a developing player.

[lojo]

[quote name='silddx' post='1233257' date='May 16 2011, 04:39 PM']If you study with Branford, you are likely to be quite dedicated.[/quote]

Or possibly just have the funds to enroll , although I hope your statement is the more correct

[algmusic]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1233858' date='May 17 2011, 01:03 AM']That's a good point,but the thing with learning via the internet is that beginners generally don't know the difference between the good
and bad information. For every good website like StudyBass,there is an Expert Village.For every good Youtube lesson,there are a hundred
really bad ones.
Internet lessons may be easily accessible,but when used alone it can promote the wrong message. Why train your ear when you can just
copy a guy on Youtube? Why learn to read when there are thousands of free tabs? Why learn scales when you can just copy this fingering
pattern?
Don't get me wrong,I think the internet is a majorly important resource and there is a wealth of great material to study,but I also think that
there is a lot of bad stuff out there that could potentially cause more harm than good to a developing player.[/quote]

completely, I was trying to learn a song for a gig on friday (quickly) and thought I'd check youtube for a bass cover.. everyone, played the song wrong so I had to work it out myself, now the interesting thing is, is whether they thinks it's right and they are playing the song wrong or is that they are just enjoying playing their cover on the internet and know it's not quite right?

The next stage is someone who hasn't been taught to listen to music and understand some theory, may listen to the incorrect cover or an incorrect tab thinking they are playing the song correctly. I had the same problem two weeks ago on a gig, the players, used tab rather than listened to the song.. put it this way, I was glad I was on drums or I'd have to try and get them to play it the right way or worst still, I'd have to playing the 'wrong way'

[JayPH]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1233858' date='May 17 2011, 01:03 AM']That's a good point,but the thing with learning via the internet is that beginners generally don't know the difference between the good
and bad information. For every good website like StudyBass,there is an Expert Village.For every good Youtube lesson,there are a hundred
really bad ones.
Internet lessons may be easily accessible,but when used alone it can promote the wrong message. Why train your ear when you can just
copy a guy on Youtube? Why learn to read when there are thousands of free tabs? Why learn scales when you can just copy this fingering
pattern?
Don't get me wrong,I think the internet is a majorly important resource and there is a wealth of great material to study,but I also think that
there is a lot of bad stuff out there that could potentially cause more harm than good to a developing player.[/quote]
I completely agree with that mate.

There is a tide of crap on the Internet but the Google generation seem to want instant everything. I'm not saying young people are lazy but they have just become used to getting information quickly so they don't learn how to learn properly and then when they get to Uni they want to be spoon fed. It shouldn't work like that but in this climate the student can vote with their feet so maybe Higher Education is pandering to the student too much just to get the fees. I think that's why Branford Marsalis is having his rant.