Ebay experts, I need your advice

[TDM]

Basically, all the way back in February I sold some old assorted lego for a friend on Ebay. Some dude puts in a best offer and we decide to take it. I then hand everything over to my friend, giving the buyer all the details for him to go and collect it (Note the auction said collection only) at this point I thought "well, the worst that could happen is that he leaves me negative feedback"

Then the buyer wants to have it sent to him, because he lives in Kent or somewhere like that (In case your knowledge of British geography sucks, its all the way at the other end of the country) So my friend gets him to post him a cheque, paying for postage too.

He sends it by Royal mail standard parcels (3-5 days, not tracked) and he keeps the proof of postage.

Around 2-3 weeks later, I leave the guy feedback, assuming he has received it since it has been a long time and he hadn't contacted me.

Around a fortnight ago (over a month after the auction ended), he emails me asking where the lego is and it if was posted, I show him the proof of postage. Then a few days later, he emails my friend, asking where the lego is, he also shows him the proof of postage.

Then, he leaves me negative feedback!

[i]
Never received item. No reply to emails![/i]

I replied to all of his emails, and he replied back saying he would wait!

What should I do? I'm planning on filling out a lost mail form from Royal Mail and hopefully getting the value of the lego refunded. (which Is what I got last time they lost something years ago) And getting the guy to withdraw the feedback after I've refunded him.

But since I think he is a scammer, I might just keep the refund to make up for hte (totally wrong) negative feedback he left me.

Advice guys?

Short version- Guy claims he hadn't received an item after it is very likely to have been delievered, leaves me negative feedback without contacting me furthur. thedonutman thinks the guy is lying. what should he do?

Edited February 17, 2008 by thedonutman

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

You can't be sure he's lying. Stuff does go missing in the post all the time. Does his feedback (received & left) indicate any history of doing this kind of thing?

If Royal Mail pays up, I don't think it would be honest to keep the refund - If you pass it on then at least you can add a response to the feedback that a claim was made against the carrier who lost it and a full refund was issued.

As the auction said pickup only I'd have either:
a)Told him to **** off in the first place and got a free relisting as he wasn't willing to comply with the terms of the sale.
or
b)Insisted he paid extra for tracked delivery to protect you both.

[The Burpster]

+1 to above.... its going to be very difficult to evidnec it was or wasnt delivered to him without a traking label... I'd rather pay more now than lose more stuff....

[TDM]

[quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' post='141879' date='Feb 17 2008, 02:02 PM']You can't be sure he's lying. Stuff does go missing in the post all the time. Does his feedback (received & left) indicate any history of doing this kind of thing?

If Royal Mail pays up, I don't think it would be honest to keep the refund - If you pass it on then at least you can add a response to the feedback that a claim was made against the carrier who lost it and a full refund was issued.

As the auction said pickup only I'd have either:
a)Told him to **** off in the first place and got a free relisting as he wasn't willing to comply with the terms of the sale.
or
b)Insisted he paid extra for tracked delivery to protect you both.[/quote]


He has a lot of feedback, but some of it does indicate similar situations in which he claims he never recieved the item, but the seller has either confirmation of postage or even confirmation of delivery too.

My friend made him pay extra for the postage, but I don't think he paid enough for the postage for it to be tracked.

I'd love to get the money and refund him, but I have a feeling that he might not actually withdraw or follow up his feedback. I just don't trust him since he even lied in the feedback he left me. And what makes me doubt him more is that he only tried once to find out where he item was, never bothered emailing me again. If I just spent almost £100 on an item that hadn't arrived, I certainly wouldn't just leave feedback without inquiring further.

But with or without a tracking label, I have proof of postage so he can't claim I scammed him and never sent it.

Edited February 17, 2008 by thedonutman

[queenofthedepths]

If you can get the money from Royal Mail, tell him you'll refund him once he withdraws his feedback?

[TDM]

[quote name='queenofthedepths' post='141888' date='Feb 17 2008, 02:19 PM']If you can get the money from Royal Mail, tell him you'll refund him once he withdraws his feedback?[/quote]


Yes, thats what I emailed him proposing. But like I said, based on his previous actions, I doubt his credibility, so he may get the money and not keep his end of the bargain. But I guess I'll worry about that after I try to get the money from Royal Mail.

[queenofthedepths]

[quote name='thedonutman' post='141890' date='Feb 17 2008, 02:24 PM']Yes, thats what I emailed him proposing. But like I said, based on his previous actions, I doubt his credibility, so he may get the money and not keep his end of the bargain. But I guess I'll worry about that after I try to get the money from Royal Mail.[/quote]
He'd have no reason not to - he'd have his money AND the lego (assuming he's a scammer), your friend would have the money he wanted, and if he withdraws the negative feedback, you won't report him to ebay, saving him a bit of trouble... everyone's happy - he has nothing to gain by holding a grudge against an honest seller. Good luck getting the money from Royal Mail though; I should imagine this would be the hard bit.

[TDM]

[quote name='queenofthedepths' post='141901' date='Feb 17 2008, 02:38 PM']He'd have no reason not to - he'd have his money AND the lego (assuming he's a scammer), your friend would have the money he wanted, and if he withdraws the negative feedback, you won't report him to ebay, saving him a bit of trouble... everyone's happy - he has nothing to gain by holding a grudge against an honest seller. Good luck getting the money from Royal Mail though; I should imagine this would be the hard bit.[/quote]

A few years back they lost some film we sent off to developed, and they refunded us £50 IIRC. But I'm sure they'll make it a long drawn out process with xyz forms to fill out etc. but in the end I *should* (Hope) get some money.

[andy67]

nah! the forms dont take to long and once the investigation is done, 14 days then you get either a cheque or nothing!

have you asked the seller why it took him so long to enquire about this? if he has done this before? write to ebay putting in a complaint as they would withdraw the feedback.

[yorks5stringer]

It's a well known scam for buyers to say they "never recieved it" but this usually involves them claiming their payment back off Paypal and keeping the item..,....

[warwickhunt]

You do realise that the maximum you can claim back (with normal post and proof of postage) is £36!

[faultyy]

Can you track the parcel? I think it usually says the name of the person who signed for it if it was signed for. I think if you show ebay that they will withdraw the feedback... oops should have read the whole thread. Sorry

Edited February 18, 2008 by faultyy

[bassbloke]

I'd be inclined to post a follow up comment to the effect that you kept buyer in the loop and that claim is currently in progress.

Send off the forms to Royal Mail and if you get your £36 then send it to him less the cost of postage - he's ripping off Royal Mail after all. If he complains, tough - he should have paid you for special delivery.

A lot of ebayers get all flustered about negative feedback. The system's compromised as it is anyway and everyone knows there's ways around it.

[WalMan]

I had a problem with a couple of items I sold some time back going AWOL for over a month, one to Italy, and the other to Scotland.

Both did turn up though after about 5 weeks thankfully, but as we are only 3 weeks into February there may still be hope

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='WalMan' post='143394' date='Feb 19 2008, 09:25 PM']I had a problem with a couple of items I sold some time back going AWOL for over a month, one to Italy, and the other to Scotland.

Both did turn up though after about 5 weeks thankfully, but as we are only 3 weeks into February there may still be hope[/quote]

You're lucky the one to Italy turned up... I've sent 6 items to Italy with a loss rate of 4. 66% of items lost ain't great and buyers didn't pay for International Insured postage so unfortunately the UK postal service washed their hands of the whole thing!

[Quatschmacher]

You should definitely contact ebay and have them remove the feedback - it is against the rules to post negative feedback if you (either the buyer or seller) has not tried to resolve the issue first by using the official ebay "dispute" process. Look up "dispute" in the ebay help pages to see how it's meant to work. I had to use it oncw when a buyer decided he couldn't pay for the item he bought from me.

[markytbass]

We have had some items disapear in the post one in the UK and one that was sent to Germany. The UK one is going through the claim process and we have been told that there is a backlog and it may take a few weeks. The parcel sent to Germany has not arrived but was only sent 2 weeks ago so may still arrive. Two things I have concluded from this are, 1. Don't deal with anyone outside the UK and 2. Get all post sent registered, I think it was 70p more.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='Quatschmacher' post='143482' date='Feb 20 2008, 12:09 AM']You should definitely contact ebay and have them remove the feedback - it is against the rules to post negative feedback if you (either the buyer or seller) has not tried to resolve the issue first by using the official ebay "dispute" process. Look up "dispute" in the ebay help pages to see how it's meant to work. I had to use it oncw when a buyer decided he couldn't pay for the item he bought from me.[/quote]

Sorry mate, you are so wrong! I've been an eBayer for over 5 years and have bought and sold in excess of 4000 items. I've had negative feedback left by people 5 minutes after the auction ended and who haven't even paid for things. I've also had totally spurious negative feedback left that had nothing to do with the item that I sold and you can't do a thing about it. eBay will not intervene in the leaving of negative feedback unless of extreme circumstances (see below). The fact that someone hasn't given you a chance to rectify a problem means bo-diddly-squat. I'm not trying to be harsh but please don't build your hopes up that negative feedback can be wiped.

Feedback that meets any of the circumstances below is Feedback abuse and, where appropriate, both the rating and the comment may be subject to removal. Feedback that doesn't meet any of the reasons outlined below will not be removed under the abuse policy:

*

eBay has the discretion to remove any Feedback comment that contains profane, vulgar, obscene, defamatory or racist language, or adult material.
*

The Feedback comment contains personal identifying information about another member, including real name, address, phone number, or email address.
*

The Feedback makes reference to an eBay, PayPal or law enforcement organisation investigation.
*

The Feedback comment contains links or scripts.
*

Negative Feedback intended for another member will be considered for removal only in situations where the member responsible for the mistaken posting informs eBay of the error and has already placed the same feedback for the correct member.
*

Feedback left by a person who was ineligible to participate in an eBay transaction at the time of the transaction or at the time the Feedback was left. The eBay User Agreement provides that a person may not use the Site if he or she is under the age of 18 or he or she is not able to form legally binding contracts, or if his or her eBay membership has been suspended.
*

Feedback left by a member who provided eBay with false contact information (i.e. a false email address) and could not be contacted by eBay. In general, the transaction period is considered to be 90 days from the end of the listing or 30 days from the date the Feedback was left, whichever was longer.
*

Feedback left by a member who bid on or purchased an item solely to have the opportunity to leave negative Feedback for the seller, with no intention of completing the transaction. This will be determined on a case-by-case basis, and the final decision will be made by eBay.
*

eBay will automatically remove Feedback from members indefinitely suspended within 90 days of registration. Not all suspension types qualify for automatic Feedback removal. For example, accounts that are suspended for non-payment of eBay fees and instances when eBay provides the member with the opportunity to fix the issue (and be reinstated), do not qualify for automatic removal. This will be determined on a case-by-case basis, and the final decision will be made by eBay.
*

eBay is provided with a valid court order finding that the disputed Feedback is defamatory or otherwise illegal.

[nick]

With regard to some of the above views on Royal Mail & non-receipt of purchased items; I would have to comment on my recent experiences (last six weeks) of purcased things not turning up. Each time sellers stating goods sent, though unfortunately not tracked. Fortunately sellers senT replacements for all items [i]'lost'[/i] in Post
Three seperate CD's
One 12" single
Set of bass strings
And even Road Tax from DVLA!

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='nick' post='143644' date='Feb 20 2008, 01:04 PM']With regard to some of the above views on Royal Mail & non-receipt of purchased items; I would have to comment on my recent experiences (last six weeks) of purcased things not turning up. Each time sellers stating goods sent, though unfortunately not tracked. Fortunately sellers senT replacements for all items [i]'lost'[/i] in Post
Three seperate CD's
One 12" single
Set of bass strings
And even Road Tax from DVLA!
[/quote]

I find it maddening when eBay sellers (selling regularly) don't get proof of postage or worse claim that they don't have proof of postage, after all it is a free service provided by the Post Office counters!

[neepheid]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='143657' date='Feb 20 2008, 01:20 PM']I find it maddening when eBay sellers (selling regularly) don't get proof of postage or worse claim that they don't have proof of postage, after all it is a free service provided by the Post Office counters![/quote]

I find it maddening that the post office do not issue proof of postage as a matter of course. Shops don't wait for you to ask for your receipt when you buy something!

[tauzero]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='143403' date='Feb 19 2008, 09:36 PM']You're lucky the one to Italy turned up... I've sent 6 items to Italy with a loss rate of 4. 66% of items lost ain't great and buyers didn't pay for International Insured postage so unfortunately the UK postal service washed their hands of the whole thing![/quote]
I'm not sure what the situation is with international posting but under UK consumer law, you're responsible for the item getting to the buyer. That includes them ticking the "uninsured" box. See [url="http://upce.toffee.net/#FAQ8.11"]the upce FAQ.[/url] So all my shipping costs include adequate insurance for the value of the item being sent.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='tauzero' post='143688' date='Feb 20 2008, 01:57 PM']I'm not sure what the situation is with international posting but under UK consumer law, you're responsible for the item getting to the buyer. That includes them ticking the "uninsured" box. See [url="http://upce.toffee.net/#FAQ8.11"]the upce FAQ.[/url] So all my shipping costs include adequate insurance for the value of the item being sent.[/quote]

I agree, I used to offer fully insured International Shipping on the Leatherman & Gerber stuff that I sell and made it a condition of sale that I would post using RM International Signed For but for some reason buyers from France and Italy appeared to have a predisposed notion that this didn't apply to them and they'd either win an auction then argue that the shipping was too expensive (I charged what RM charged + 30p to cover the cost of a jiffy bag, I now just recycle jiffy bags) or they would pay the UK shipping costs and argue the toss with you. Hence when items went missing I provided eBay/PayPal with UK proof of postage which clearly demonstrated that I had posted the items and the fault didn't rest with me. I'm not being xenophobic about the France / Italy thing but with the exception of about 3 sales I 'always' had hassle. I now don't entertain selling to those countries.

However... I recently sold a pair of used Levis 501s; the auction was won by an Italian who had registered in the UK. I agreed to complete the transaction and they duly received the package but claim that it contained a piece of foam not jeans and demanded a refund. Now I've seen the pics of what they received and it is clearly my packaging stuffed with a piece of thick foam wadding; whether they are trying to pull something with me or more likely their postal service is corrupt/rubbish, I don't know. Again their refusal to pay for adequate insured cover meant that I just used standard parcel and got proof of postage and that is my obligation fulfilled, eBay and PayPal have both found in my favour!