Cliff Burton live solo

[Rich]

[url="http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2011/04/15/rare-live-cliff-burton-solo-1986/"]http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2011/04/15/ra...rton-solo-1986/[/url]


Personally... I still can't see what all the fuss is/was about him. Sounds like any one of a million music-shop meanderings to me. Ah well, horses for courses.

[Evil Undead]

Then why are you posting one of his solos online?

The guy was just brilliant, musically and technically. Sure, his playing was a little on the sloppy side but that just added character!

[Conan]

Not for me I'm afraid. Everything that's wrong with bass solos.... still, if his fans enjoyed it fair play to him.

[Stag]

The man is a hero of mine, construction of his songs (and a large part of "the" solo) are influenced by classical with some pleasant arpeggios etc. Oddly though his recorded sound isnt really that great on the albums...

Metallica were a completely different beast with him on board, far more varied stuff IMO.

[Skol303]

Hmmm... this seems like a blatant 'Cliff baiting' thread to me. But what the heck, I'll bite!

"Horses for courses" says it all really. I'm sure some people would say the same about Jaco, for instance (they often do in fact). That's the nature of such iconic bassists; if you stand on a pedestal then expect to have things thrown at you, as the saying goes.

But the fact remains that Cliff Burton [i]is[/i] an icon. Otherwise threads like this one wouldn't keep cropping up so often. Why? Not just for his playing, but for his character... the way he took to the stage like a tornado; the fact that during his time he dominated what become the biggest metal band ever; that he brought bass playing to the fore in a way that even his heroes like Geezer Butler never really did.

That's why people still rave about Cliff. I mean sure, most bassist can play their way through Anesthesia in their bedrooms or to impress in a music store (as I used to as a teenager!). But try playing it on stage, while banging your head the way he did... it's not as easy as it looks ;-)

And that's what special about Cliff Burton. When he played, he looks as though as was going to break his bass any second. He literally attacked the instrument. And personally, I always found that more inspiring than watching the more technical yet static noodlings of other lead bassists in the metal genre.

In short: as a teenager, Burton made me want to bang my head like no other bass player ever did. That's what the fuss is about for many people.

But as you say, it's all "horses for courses".

[noelk27]

Sure, he did all the mad stuff with a touch of panache, but ask him to hold down a beat and his timing wasn't exactly strict.

[derrenleepoole]

[quote name='noelk27' post='1234084' date='May 17 2011, 11:07 AM']Sure, he did all the mad stuff with a touch of panache, but ask him to hold down a beat and his timing wasn't exactly strict.[/quote]

That matters how exactly? If the music kicks who cares right? Plus, he has Lars as a drummer to contend with, and he can't keep time for toffee

[weepaul]

Just go and buy/borrow/steal 'Cliff em all'. Was like a Bible to me.


Pssst,like Metal ? [url="http://honeyforchrist.blogspot.com/"]http://honeyforchrist.blogspot.com/[/url]

[Rich]

[quote name='Evil Undead' post='1233927' date='May 17 2011, 08:28 AM']Then why are you posting one of his solos online? [/quote]
Errm because the video appeared on my Facebook feed as i subscribe to notreble and I thought I'd share it here, as there doesn't seem to be much CB content (which I must say surprises me).

[quote name='Skol303' post='1234075' date='May 17 2011, 11:00 AM']Hmmm... this seems like a blatant 'Cliff baiting' thread to me.[/quote]
Oh please. Like I said, yes it's horses for course. You say tomayto, and so on. But I do apologise for voicing a negative opinion.

Mind you, I can only imagine the sort of vitriol I'd have drawn by now if I'd dared to criticise him on that home of the hysterical sacred-cow fanboi, Youpube...

[Skol303]

[quote name='Rich' post='1236585' date='May 19 2011, 07:54 AM']Oh please. Like I said, yes it's horses for course. You say tomayto, and so on. But I do apologise for voicing a negative opinion.[/quote]

^ No need to apologise; you're obviously entitled to criticise Cliff Burton all you like (though it's probably safer to do it here than on YouTube, as you say!).

My point was simply that you mentioned you're surprised at what "all the fuss is/was about him" based on his playing skills; when my point is that the "fuss" is perhaps more due to the fact that he brought bass playing to the forefront of the biggest metal band in history. Or to put it another way, he brought lead bass playing to the masses and caused millions of sweaty teenagers to pick up a bass rather than guitar (I was certainly one of them!).

The only other bassist I can think of that might have the same sort of influence is Steve Harris, or possibly Geezer Butler - but I think it's fair to say that neither of those bassists 'broke the mold' in the way that Cliff did. But that's another "horses for courses" debate...

Sure there are plenty of great lead bassists in the metal genre - and many of them technically better players than Cliff ever was - but I've still yet to hear anything quite so original and 'ear-catching' as Anesthesia; or seen a bassist with such an individual style (e.g. bell-bottom flares when everyone else was still wearing spandex!). But then I'm clearly biased.

As for his playing, I'd be delighted if my 'chops' were anywhere near the standard of Cliff's. But then I'm no pro, so I'm not really in a position to judge.

[burno70]

Cliff and that solo got me and probably thousands of other kids into playing bass. Thats were it all began for me! It really is bass with attitude.

And by the way, depending on what level your playing is at there is seriously good technique on display througout that solo, albeit a tad sloppy during his headbanging live performances. I actually played this during my final solo recital at uni - it was much more fun than the Bach Cello pieces (imho), and is just as difficult.

Its still the first thing I play when I get a new fuzz pedal

[longtimefred]

Cliff was just amazing!

Like Skol said, his bass playing shined through most if not all other Heavy Metal bass players of the time and gave us 'tallica wannabes something more to look at and listen to rather than Kirk Hammett widdling over his guitar. He sure made me learn and play my bass differently. He really inspired me and hopefully millions of other bass players as he was something special. His songwriting was genius.

You are totally right about the horses for courses thing, everyone is different. For me i would prefer to listen to Cliff kick the sh*t out of his bass in a cool rock n roll fashion playing the odd bit out of time rather than listen to Marcus Miller or Jaco noodle around playing their lovely clean Jazz music. Thats just boring!

[Skol303]

[quote name='burno70' post='1236956' date='May 19 2011, 02:44 PM']...it was much more fun than the Bach Cello pieces (imho), and is just as difficult.[/quote]

^ Oddly enough, I got switched on to Bach (and the cello suites) through Cliff Burton! He was apparently a huge fan of the composer and so I decided to find out for myself.

That said, I can only really play Cello Suite No. 1 with any level of competence; and only because it's the easiest one of the lot.

If anyone's interested, I highly recommend the book on Cliff written by the British journalist Joel McIver (himself a bass player, I think?) - it's chock full of fanboy material, but more interestingly gives an (albeit fairly basic) opinion on some of the theory behind his most iconic basslines. Well worth a read IMO.

[url="http://www.amazon.com/Live-Die-Death-Metallicas-Burton/dp/190600224X"]http://www.amazon.com/Live-Die-Death-Metal...n/dp/190600224X[/url]

[chaypup]

[quote name='noelk27' post='1234084' date='May 17 2011, 11:07 AM']Sure, he did all the mad stuff with a touch of panache, but ask him to hold down a beat and his timing wasn't exactly strict.[/quote]

I asked him to make me a Quiche Lorraine once, bloody awful mess he presented to the ladies of Splott WI.

[skej21]

[quote name='Evil Undead' post='1233927' date='May 17 2011, 08:28 AM']The guy was just brilliant, musically and technically. Sure, his playing was a little on the sloppy side but that just added character![/quote]

How can he be technically brilliant and sloppy?

If this is possible, I know loads of sloppy bass players who will now have a selling point to help them get some gigs!

[Chest Rockwell]

er, dont forget he had a hand in most of Metallica's music and whether anyone likes it or not they are one of, if not *the* biggest Metal bands, and bands of any genre, EVER. and it's not just cos of some flash in the pan one hit wonder. They made three classic Metal albums and he was at the heart of all of them, and all this before he made it to 25 years old!

Show me a better bass player at the AGE OF 24, and I'll show you someone who hasn't written anything I'll listen to for the rest of my life.

yup, I bit too!

I'm sure had he lived to a ripe old age he'd have been knocking out all kinds of cool music, but we'll never know.


(not to mention the fun, charisma, headbanging, wildman, craziness, etc)

[skej21]

[quote name='Chest Rockwell' post='1237100' date='May 19 2011, 04:56 PM']Show me a better bass player at the AGE OF 24, and I'll show you someone who hasn't written anything I'll listen to for the rest of my life.[/quote]

Here's a better bass player (based purely on fact, and not outlandish opinion)

In 1966 at the ripe age of 24, Sir Paul McCartney (and The Beatles) played their third and final live tour across the US, having recorded the following;

Please Please Me (1963), With The Beatles (1963), A Hard Day's Night (1964), Beatles for Sale (1964), Help! (1965), Rubber Soul (1965) and began work on Revolver (1966).

He had also achieved 11 Number Ones by that point and was the nucleus of The Beatles' success.

[Skol303]

[quote name='skej21' post='1237115' date='May 19 2011, 05:08 PM']Here's a better bass player (based purely on fact, and not outlandish opinion)...Sir Paul McCartney[/quote]

^ Good example of another legend.

As already mentioned, Cliff contributed to what are regarded as three of the best (if not [i]the[/i] best) metal albums of all time: Kill 'Em All, Ride... and 'Puppets. They're certainly the best selling metal albums of all time. And that's also a fact, not outlandish opinion. So I think Cliff is undoubtedly due some credit for what he contributed to music during his short life. Albeit not on the same scale as McCartney... 'Frog Chorus' nonwithstanding!

Again, in terms of contribution to bass playing, it goes without saying that McCartney's basslines are classics and in places very technical indeed. But we know this because we are bassists. If I talk with friends about the Beatles they don't talk about McCartney's bass playing, but they do talk about Cliff Burton's if the conversation is on Metallica.

I totally appreciate that Cliff Burton is open to much criticism in terms of his actual playing. But like it or not, he had a huge impact on the world of bass playing - specifically in the metal genre, sure - but that's one helluva big and popular genre.

So I'd say those of us singing his praises are basing it on more than just opinion.

Anyway, let's not make this a Celebrity Deathmatch! The OP asked what all the "fuss" is about over Cliff Burton, and I think it's fair to say it's because he 'broke the mold' - at least during his prime in the early-mid 80s - and has inspired a bucketload of bass players since his death.

All the rest is definitely "horses for courses"...

[Chest Rockwell]

If I'm gonna be proved wrong with Paul McCartney, I'm more than happy to be wrong! damn, if Cliff is being compared with Paul McCartney, that's made the case for Cliff better than anyone could!

[Bloc Riff Nut]

[quote name='noelk27' post='1234084' date='May 17 2011, 11:07 AM']Sure, he did all the mad stuff with a touch of panache, but ask him to hold down a beat and his timing wasn't exactly strict.[/quote]
If you want strict timing get a drum machine. Music is feel.

[warwickhunt]

Just listened to it and... that was a decent 'guitar' solo with effects and all!

I've not really had much time for Metallica which is just a taste thing so absolutely no criticism but if I'd heard that being played without knowing who it was I'd have thought it was someone very proficient on the guitar having a go on the bass. Saying that, the nature of bass solos (which to me is an oxymoron) is that you don't get a feel for how that person plays in the band situation and I'm sure that as an entertainer he must have been pretty good.