Back Pain - Advice Please

[BottomE]

Went to the doc this morning and he said i need physio. Apparently my Lattisimus Dorsi is a bit screwed up and needs some relief. He says its almost certainly down to spending so much time playing bass and being sat on my ass doing a desk job.

It's got to the point where a one hour car journey is about all i can do without having a break. Pain relief at the moment consists of the occasional paracetemol with codeine and the odd Jamaican Woodbine when i run into some old friends.

Oddly, gigging i am so into listening and playing that i don't feel the pain - until after.

Any advice/help pointers tips would be most welcome.

Thanks.

[ead]

I have a reasonable amount of spinal issues following 30 yrs of rugby at a a decent standard. My physio has sorted out a number of different stretching and pressure relief exercises to help me and my symptoms so I would recommend finding a good one near you.

[4000]

There are many options. Firstly, a lighter and/or better balanced bass may be the way to go. I had to sell my custom-made 11lb Alembic as it aggravated existing chronic back and neck problems (2 prolapsed discs among other things) but sometimes you just have to do these things. In fact even my favoured old Rics (8.5lbs each) are giving me some jip now, but I'm hanging on in there with those for as long as I can! Headless helps, but of course aesthetically isn't for everyone.

In addition, physio, stretching, Pilates should all help. Developing your core muscles is a biggee. If necessary there's always chiropractic but sometimes I've found that aggravates as much as fixes.

One thing I would add is to watch your posture, both when playing and not (a physio may help with this), and also when sitting; I also do a desk job and its done me more permanent damage than all the weight-training and Aikido ever did. If you haven't already, get a workstation assessment!

[JTUK]

Manage the core, manage the problem.

The skeletal stack needs to be maintained and it is this simple thing that is often over-looked.
If you get a decent physio to show you a regime and you adhere to it as much as poss and as often as poss, then there is no reason why you can't ski and play golf, for example, ..neither of which are kind to the back.

Once ligaments start taking the strain that muscles are supposed to do, you will have trouble in any joints.

So good core, decent posture and correct regime can delay a lot of problems, IME.

[Fitz666]

My better half had back issues and she went through loads of physio which did nothing for her.

The she found out about the Alexander Technique, sought out a practitioner and hasnt looked back (even though she can now).

In the end it all came down to her posture, which I thought was fine. The changes she makes are subtle but they make a world of difference.

She actually had me try out some of the exercises and thankfully, due to years of weight training, I could do them all perfectly first time, whihc she couldn't.

Definatelty worth a try.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='Fitz666' post='1234272' date='May 17 2011, 01:41 PM']... sought out a practitioner and hasnt looked back (even though she can now).[/quote]

[BottomE]

Thanks chaps.

What about massage chairs and orthopaedic stuff? Have you tried them? The doc did mention Pilates and Yoga - anyone do this?

[Skol303]

[quote name='BottomE' post='1234290' date='May 17 2011, 01:51 PM']Thanks chaps.

What about massage chairs and orthopaedic stuff? Have you tried them? The doc did mention Pilates and Yoga - anyone do this?[/quote]

I (used to!) practice a lot of martial arts. Can't speak for massage chairs and the like as I've never used them. But pilates and yoga are certainly good for strengthening and improving overall posture (which itself can make a huge difference).

A friend who I used to train with had a bad back from his rugby-playing days and he swore by a combination of yoga and gym work to help deal with it. He specifically used exercises which strengthened his back muscles, in order to help keep his spine 'in place' and in the right posture. Worked better than any medication for him, and he tried just about everything.

Best of luck with it.

[NJE]

[quote name='BottomE' post='1234290' date='May 17 2011, 01:51 PM']Thanks chaps.

What about massage chairs and orthopaedic stuff? Have you tried them? The doc did mention Pilates and Yoga - anyone do this?[/quote]

IMHO dont waste your time, find a good physio and I mean a good well reccomended one and dont be afraid to pay for a good one. They will solve your problems not by simply relieving what is there but by showing you how to correct the core probem and strengthen the area.

Most people who say physio doesnt work for them dont do the work and are too afraid of being in pain when doing the exercise. My better half is a physio and she has helped me with my issues so much. Its not a soft tickle and massage and all better, you will hurt doing proper exercises sometimes but you need to get past it to do better in the long run.

Do the work and do what he/she tells you, not just when you have the pain, all the time. A lot of my problems have come from bad allignment etc and Pilates is good for you if you do it properly and work at it. A lot of physios have good opinions of Pilates.

[skankdelvar]

My physio recommends going for lots of walks. Seems to help.

[JTUK]

[quote name='BottomE' post='1234290' date='May 17 2011, 01:51 PM']Thanks chaps.

What about massage chairs and orthopaedic stuff? Have you tried them? The doc did mention Pilates and Yoga - anyone do this?[/quote]


We have decent chairs at work..but it depends how hard you want to pursue this. Under health and safety you could probably swing it but by the same token you then might have to formalise medical history and that might not be advisable for what gain you may get..
Chairs can be very expensive for companies.

I had such good results from my physio that I never got to plan B..which was pilates and yoga.
Certainly wouldn't knock it if looked like it could help the core exercises and also promote more mobility.

Also a decent bed/mattress is essential, IMO.

So all in all..there is a lot you can do to help yourself but the one thing above all else I avoid is crunching sessions.
If the operator cannot devise a regime to KEEP your posture in place, no amount of crunching will fix things, so by that token weekly visits are useless as it could take 2-3 weeks for exercises to have an effect so anyone who wants to see you weekly is not getting to the root cause, IME.

The first thing my physio did..after I had a long search to find her..was devise an exercise and tell me to nail it before I visited her again
3 weeks later. She told me if I couldn't pass this basic test and work on it myself...the rest of her work would be largely useless.
I took the hint.

[BottomE]

Thanks folks. Its been going on for about a year now ever since i decided to re-learn the bass and spend hours every week hunched over the the fretboard.

How do you find a good physio?

and

Is there a proper way to angle the bass when playing? Most times i play sitting down at home.

[BottomE]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='1234332' date='May 17 2011, 02:25 PM']My physio recommends going for lots of walks. Seems to help.[/quote]
Do one very day with my old dog. She don't go far these days though

[JTUK]

[quote name='BottomE' post='1234390' date='May 17 2011, 02:59 PM']Thanks folks. Its been going on for about a year now ever since i decided to re-learn the bass and spend hours every week hunched over the the fretboard.

How do you find a good physio?

and

Is there a proper way to angle the bass when playing? Most times i play sitting down at home.[/quote]


After I 'fixed' or managed the problem, I don't have to bother about how I hold the bass but I do use comfort straps and practice sitting down with the strap on at all times. I am not mad at lifting but if you take care I don't worry about rerasonable weights upto around 60-70lbs.... I don't lift 4x10 anymore though typically.

As for the physio..that is the hardest part. Getting out of the quack NHS syndrone where GP's dish out pills etc when the best thing they should do ( IMO ) is establish how an MRI might help. I went private to get the MRI sorted and then ended up with a consultant who played bass..so we empathised there..ha ha .. but they put me onto a physio who struck me straight away with her straight talking. At no point was I patronised..they said you have a problem but we can handle it..if YOU do some work.

But I think word of mouth is the best way to go... with a MRI.

My problem is 20 years old ..maybe... and the NHS is lights years on from when I first started going round in circles...
First thing I would do is bug the GP until he refers you... stage 1.
Next is MRI and consultant and finding a good physio..these guys ( consultants ) tend to know the best but it also seems to be accepted in the medical world that the better solution is managing the problem rather than ignore it and put it down to an age thing or unlucky injury and thems is your breaks type of thing.

I have 2 prolapsed discs, they said... and aaprt from a bit of stiffness now and again and a twinge here and there..any set-backs I might get are handled in a few days of re-focusing on what I have learnt. In that respect it is more me lapsing than anything else.

Just my 2p...

Mine was football..others have had to contemplate fusion surgery...

oh..another myth... which a consultant told me..so don't get me started on some of them... that my injury was because I was tall... FFS..!!

Basically, pursue it yourself and don't get fobbed off...try another route/GP etc tec ..

[fatboyslimfast]

[quote name='BottomE' post='1234390' date='May 17 2011, 02:59 PM']Most times i play sitting down at home.[/quote]

I actually find this hurts my back more than playing standing up with a strap, as I end up hunched over more. I can also move about a bit more (even if I do get strange looks from the neighbours) which means I'm not in the same position for too long at once.

[BottomE]

[quote name='fatboyslimfast' post='1234422' date='May 17 2011, 03:20 PM']I actually find this hurts my back more than playing standing up with a strap, as I end up hunched over more. I can also move about a bit more (even if I do get strange looks from the neighbours) which means I'm not in the same position for too long at once.[/quote]
Yes - i think you are bang on. I am gonna start to worry the neighbours as from now on and loon about in the dining room when playing. I wonder though:

Are there any chairs that are good for playing - that provide great back support and access to the instrument?

[Bilbo]

I found this useful. but it is double bass specific (someone here recommended it but I can't recall who) although my issues are shoulders and arms not back pain.

[url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alexander-Technique-Approach-Double-Bass/dp/B004JKMSSE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305643745&sr=1-1"]Alexander Technique for the Double Bass[/url]

[icastle]

[quote name='BottomE' post='1234180' date='May 17 2011, 12:29 PM']my Lattisimus Dorsi is a bit screwed up and needs some relief.[/quote]

Last time I said that all I got was a slap...

[BottomE]

Thank you all. Got home and had a chat with Mrs BottomE. The plan is to:
[list]
[*]do the exercises given to me by the doc on a few sheets of A4
[*]book myself into the Pilates class that they run at my work on a Friday afternoon - result!
[*]see the Physio when the appointment finally filters through
[*]tap up my m8 for the occassional Jamaican Woodbine - really works wonders!
[*]do my music study at home standing up
[/list]
Do all this for a 8 weeks and see if there is a noticeable improvement.

[BottomE]

Quick update.

Been doing the regular exercises according to the doc couple of times a day.
Getting up and moving around a lot more at work.
Did my first Pilates session Friday

Must say there is impreovement already. The Pilates was amazing. Felt much better than a long time today.

[3below]

Fully agree with comments about getting a Physio. From 20 years young I have had on and off slight slipped upper discs. Too much desk bound work was the main culprit. Every time visit Physio - sorted in 20 mins, pain free and moving better than ever. Sadly she died young, so now its paid for not free.

[derrenleepoole]

Nothing beats a good strenuous walk - it's free (unless you drive somewhere first to do it), it doesn't have to be in the same place twice and it gives you an excuse to get out of the house/away from the bass/away from work. A lot of back pain comes down to poor posture and being tense. Walking, especially if you do hill walking etc, can really loosen you up and it invigorates the mind, especially as the oxygen starts pumping around the body. Tie it into a hobby like photography or field recording and you're laughing

Edited May 21, 2011 by derrenleepoole

[Rich44]

Allow me to be your slight knight in shining armour.

I'm only 21 but have had back pain for as long as I can remember. Obviously tried all the gimmicks, physio, meds etc and nothing was particularly working. However I've recently tried wearing Equmen products (I have the core precision vest which generally goes for £40-50). Very expensive I know, but whilst you are wearing them I'd say pain is definately improved and you certainly feel better.

[url="http://www.equmen.com/"]http://www.equmen.com/[/url]

Also, pilates or its lesser strenous cousin yoga can really help, theres a good book called "complete pilates for men" which is great.

Other than that its really just diet, posture and exercise really. Maybe an ergonomic bass strap? The Mono ones look really comfy.

Edited May 21, 2011 by Rich44

[Big_Stu]

We had a similar thread a few years ago. My 2p was that I've wracked my back from many years hunched over a drawing board from the good old days before Macs. It was brought to light after a crash on a mountain bike that I had.
As was said already; GPs are mostly not much practical help, the start & end of my advice from mine was to take up latin ballroom dancing, to aid flexibility.
I was then referred (by the guy who sold me the mountain bike) to a genius of a physio in Edinburgh, who worked for many Scottish Rugby & Olympic atheletes. He made my life worth living again, seriously.
For one thing, he'd explode if I took any form of painkillers; "treat the cause, not the symptoms" he'd say. He said the problem is in your fascia, the yellow plasticy cartilidge that separates your muscles & lets them slide against each other; they go stiff with immobility or injury & that causes pain when the muscles either side of them can't move as they should.
And from being a shambling wreck on my 1st appointment I left his clinic & walked 5 miles cross-country back home.

The advice to find a good physio is bang on; I'd try going to your nearest big rugby or football club & asking if their physio does open days, many of them do.

A trick to try that he showed me for lower back pain is this, it'll get you thru the pain until your next visit..............
Sit in an upright chair, dining table type job, having first placed an object half way back on the floor under the chair. With your knees slightly apart, hands straight with thumbs together & arms straight out in front of you, [u][b]slowly[/b][/u] attempt to lean forward as though trying to pick up the object. STOP as soon as you feel tension in your lower back (the first few will mean hardly moving at all if you're as bad as I was) when you feel the tension hold it for one breathe & go back to sitting upright. Repeat this process & by the 15th rep you'll probably be able to touch or lift the object under the chair.
I've shown/told/passed on this trick to many people (about 20+) with lower back problems & it hasn't failed yet. Hopefully you won't be the first.