Small-ish Valve Heads

[eude]

Had another thought, how about talking to the Matamp guys?
They don't seem to mind customising what they do and it's already along the lines of what you like.
I'm sure I heard someone on here talking about getting them to make them a smaller amp for home use...

Eude

[pete.young]

[quote name='obbm' post='1236777' date='May 19 2011, 11:21 AM']I've come to the same conclusion. Max power for minimum size. That's why the VOX looked interesting. 50-watt, all-valve, under £600.

I've been slowly coming to the conclusion that what I need is either an old Hiwatt or build a 50w all-valveguitar amp kit and tweak the EQ values for bass. Firstly I need to get my SC 50PA running to see how much volume it gives.[/quote]

I think you're seeking the unattainable. There's a reason why everyone got rid of their Sound City 50s and 100s as soon as they could.

Decent valve amps like old Hiwatts and Burmans are going to no more portable than the AD200B because of the size of the transformers, which is what makes them sound so good in the first place. Catch 22.

[krispn]

The EBS seems like the middle ground loud enough but portable enough - I emails a retailer a while back asking for some first hand opinions and they basically told me not to get it!! Said it was more a studio amp but surely 90 'valve' watts would be useable live in smaller venues with pa support?

The price is high for what it is but then who else is making anything in this range volume-wise? Be keen to hear if anyone has tried one out?

[eude]

[quote name='krispn' post='1237765' date='May 20 2011, 09:14 AM']The EBS seems like the middle ground loud enough but portable enough - I emails a retailer a while back asking for some first hand opinions and they basically told me not to get it!! Said it was more a studio amp but surely 90 'valve' watts would be useable live in smaller venues with pa support?

The price is high for what it is but then who else is making anything in this range volume-wise? Be keen to hear if anyone has tried one out?[/quote]

Ampeg used to do a "small" valve head, was it the V-4B?
Get's confusing as I think it was a new model but using an old amp's name...
There's a piccie here >>
Might be worth seeing if you could pick one of them up.
I think a second hand Trace Twin Valve would fit the bill nicely though if you can find one.

I still think the EBS is stupidly overpriced, god knows who'll actually buy one, for less money you could get an Ashdown Little Bastard and an OK PA System!

Eude

[franzbassist]

Wouldn't it be great to have on the market a small all-valve head that was 100-150 watts. I guess another possibility is a really nice valve pre with a power amp?

Trace Elliot Twin Valve is a good call, but they are pretty heavy IIRC?

Cheers

Gareth

[obbm]

[quote name='eude' post='1237773' date='May 20 2011, 09:25 AM']I think a second hand Trace Twin Valve would fit the bill nicely though if you can find one.

I still think the EBS is stupidly overpriced, god knows who'll actually buy one, for less money you could get an Ashdown Little Bastard and an OK PA System!

Eude[/quote]

I've had a good look at the circuit of the Twin Valve and unfortunately all the EQ is all solid state. It's full of transistors and op-amps.

I have a feeling I'm going to be looking for an Ashdown.

[franzbassist]

[quote name='obbm' post='1237820' date='May 20 2011, 10:06 AM']I have a feeling I'm going to be looking for an Ashdown.[/quote]

Andertons have the LB and the Drophead combo in stock, apparently.

[eude]

[quote name='obbm' post='1237820' date='May 20 2011, 10:06 AM']I've had a good look at the circuit of the Twin Valve and unfortunately all the EQ is all solid state. It's full of transistors and op-amps.

I have a feeling I'm going to be looking for an Ashdown.[/quote]

Or maybe try out some Guitar Valve jobbies.
The smoothest recorded bass sound I ever got was using a 90s all valve 15W 10" Laney combo mic'd up, albeit blended with a bit of DI for a bit more weight as the speaker was a little lacking.

Eude

[obbm]

[quote name='walbassist' post='1237818' date='May 20 2011, 10:03 AM']Wouldn't it be great to have on the market a small all-valve head that was 100-150 watts. I guess another possibility is a really nice valve pre with a power amp?

Trace Elliot Twin Valve is a good call, but they are pretty heavy IIRC?

Cheers

Gareth[/quote]

The problem with allthe older generation of valve heads is that they were designed to sit on top of 4x12 cabinets and so are very wide, which in turn makes them difficult to carry if you are small like me. A smaller overall size but the same weight is not a problem as long as the hanle is in the right place. Marshall made an 18W small box head which is an ideal size. Even my SC 50PA cab is an acceptible size, so when I say small-ish, I don't mean tiny. For use with the modern generation of bass speakers and look proportionally correct a cab should not be wider than say 17-inches.

[obbm]

[quote name='eude' post='1237827' date='May 20 2011, 10:13 AM']Or maybe try out some Guitar Valve jobbies.
The smoothest recorded bass sound I ever got was using a 90s all valve 15W 10" Laney combo mic'd up, albeit blended with a bit of DI for a bit more weight as the speaker was a little lacking.

Eude[/quote]

LOL. This is where this thread started by asking if anyone had ever tired the new 50-watt VOX guitar head with a bass.

[Thurbs]

[quote name='phatbass787' post='1236361' date='May 18 2011, 09:47 PM']+1 Ive been gigging the LB30 quite a bit in the blues band im in and it sounds great and as long as you dont want to be
crystal clean easily loud enough, you should test drive one for sure[/quote]I would caution anyone buying a LB for volume. One of my bands is a 6 piece rock band and am up against two 4x12 30w Blackstar rigs. It doesn't really keep up to be honest. I don't mind as I let the FOH do all the work in a gig situation.

So, the LB is no power amp and if you are in a loud band with too many guitarists or have to fill a large venue with backline, then it is not for you.

Stage monitor + DI to decent PA - perfect
Low volume acoustic/jazz etc - perfect
Recording - perfect
Lots of lovely overdrive - perfect
Loud rock/indi/metal band with loud guitar rigs - barely adequate

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='obbm' post='1237833' date='May 20 2011, 10:16 AM']The problem with allthe older generation of valve heads is that they were designed to sit on top of 4x12 cabinets and so are very wide, which in turn makes them difficult to carry if you are small like me. A smaller overall size but the same weight is not a problem as long as the hanle is in the right place. Marshall made an 18W small box head which is an ideal size. Even my SC 50PA cab is an acceptible size, so when I say small-ish, I don't mean tiny. For use with the modern generation of bass speakers and look proportionally correct a cab should not be wider than say 17-inches.[/quote]

The SC120s are in an oversized box, there is space at the ends, if the 50 is the same, could be rehoused in a smaller package, with lighter wood. There was a thread with a retailer asking for suggestions as to what we wanted in a bass head, see how that developed because a lot of your tickboxes were suggested in the thread.

Edit: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=117384"]this thread.[/url]

Edited May 20, 2011 by Mr. Foxen

[Hamster]

It might be worth asking Steve about the cost of a custom build - you'll get exactly what you want - [url="http://www.stevesamps.co.uk/wp/"]http://www.stevesamps.co.uk/wp/[/url]

[henry norton]

What about a Marshall Superbass? It'll weigh a ton and be too big to sit on top of your cabs but it might be closer to what you want. Whatever you find, it will be heavy and probably too big

[Pentode]

What about an Ampeg B25?



Two 7027's putting out 55-60W. The inputs can be bridged for an even fatter tone.

Mind you, I think it's 24" wide.....

IMO, sounds fabulous when cranked and not too loud.

Edited May 20, 2011 by Pentode

[doctorbass]

[quote name='eude' post='1237773' date='May 20 2011, 09:25 AM']Ampeg used to do a "small" valve head, was it the V-4B?
Get's confusing as I think it was a new model but using an old amp's name...
There's a piccie here >>
Might be worth seeing if you could pick one of them up.
I think a second hand Trace Twin Valve would fit the bill nicely though if you can find one.

I still think the EBS is stupidly overpriced, god knows who'll actually buy one, for less money you could get an Ashdown Little Bastard and an OK PA System!

Eude[/quote]


Its an Ampeg V4BH. 100w, 4x6L6. Lovely tone on these. I have the AV version.

[Roland Rock]

John Chambers should be able to build what you need, although he's always pretty busy. He may be in the mood to work on a small amp after finishing his [url="http://www.chambonino.com/construct/const17.html"]1000w valve amp[/url]!

[MythSte]

If you want some soundclips of the twin valve please let me know man, It's not a traditional EQ but it sure sounds like one

[Phil-osopher10]

What about Aguilar db359?

[Prime_BASS]

If you want something loud and compact but all valves, I'm afraid you are parking up the wrong tree.

A choice is a guitar head however anything with enough power to golive reasonable bottom end is still going to be big and quite weighty.

The way I see it is you have a choice between, the ashdown LB and a super sensitive cab, or the SL112 with a hybrid head, or the tc rh450.

[algmusic]

I know you said you tried the Terror, but if you still have it, change the valves, It worked a treat for me.. happy jack did a thread on it

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=134869"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=134869[/url]

[Happy Jack]

There you go, Dave, sorted ...

[attachment=80690:Conchord.jpg]

[obbm]

[quote name='algmusic' post='1241328' date='May 23 2011, 11:11 AM']I know you said you tried the Terror, but if you still have it, change the valves, It worked a treat for me.. happy jack did a thread on it

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=134869"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=134869[/url][/quote]

Sold it to Sibob last summer.

[obbm]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='1241339' date='May 23 2011, 11:20 AM']There you go, Dave, sorted ...

[attachment=80690:Conchord.jpg]

[/quote]

That takes me back, my first ever bass amp. circa 1963. I've got its bigger brother, a Linear 50 in the garage which I plan to restore but the chassis got slightly bent during shipping so I'm going to have to strip it right down and get it repainted before I can rebuild it. It all takes time.

Thanks to all for the suggestions but I think a lot of you have missed the original point. I have an excellent Orange AD200B which suits me well for larger gigs when paired with an Epifani T212-UL. I don't need another high-power amp.

What I am looking for is something smaller in size and power to go with a pair of 12-inch cabs for small lower volume gigs. The Liittle Bastard ticks all the boxes, but so does the Vox Night Train NH-50H. The latter is a guitar amp but could possibly make a good 50-watt bass amp. After all AC50s were used for both. It has some interesting features such as 2-channels and a Fender Tone stack that can be bypassed to give a flat response. Also the tone stack could be easily revoiced for bass. I'm going to have to try one before making a decision.

Has anyone who works in a music shop tried one with a bass?

[pete.young]

Laney also make a 50W valve guitar head - that might be worth considering. It's called the LH50. Pics look nice but haven't seen one in the flesh.