Dorian scales

[slobluesine]

could someone give me some links to Dorian stuff please, i'd like to get to grips with grooves like Miles 'So What', not the riff but the solo bass lines

[GonzoBass]

[url="http://www.visionmusic.com/lessons/bassmodes.html"]The Modes[/url]

(Make sure your speakers are on...)

[Bilbo]

What is it you are asking for, slo? Transcriptions, recordings, mp3s? Not sure what it is you want help with.

[slobluesine]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1236978' date='May 19 2011, 03:16 PM']What is it you are asking for, slo? Transcriptions, recordings, mp3s? Not sure what it is you want help with.[/quote]

for starters is the bass part in So What all dorian? i can't really hear what Paul Chambers is playing
i can't read either so tabs is my only source at the moment

thanks for the Modes Gonzobass, great!

[Bilbo]

So What is all dorian. Dm and Ebm. But there are passiing notes etc so there are more than just the seven notes of the D Dorian scale. I recommend you take Gonzo's scale and play around with it, find differeny ways of playing it, alternative logics, rising and falling third, fourths fifths, sixths etc etc. Get into in, under it and on top of it. Its only seven notes, how hard can it be?

[Doddy]

I've got to ask......Do you understand what the Dorian mode is and how it's constructed?

In case you don't it's basically a minor scale with a raised sixth. A bassline like 'So What' is
really going to be highlighting the Dorian mode with its use of the minor third and flat seventh.

[phil.i.stein]

so it's not about hiding your bass in the loft to give it vintage appeal whilst you get progressively younger..

[Bilbo]

[quote name='phil.i.stein' post='1237178' date='May 19 2011, 05:56 PM']so it's not about hiding your bass in the loft to give it vintage appeal whilst you get progressively younger.. [/quote]

Took me a moment but I got there

[slobluesine]

[quote name='Doddy' date='May 19 2011, 05:37 PM' post='1237151']
I've got to ask......Do you understand what the Dorian mode is and how it's constructed?

nope! this is what i'm asking, i'm used to std major/minor scales and i want to know more

[slobluesine]

it's Paul Chambers playing over the soloing that i'm interested in, another one is Jaco's playing on 'Night Passage'

[xilddx]

I think the most important thing is to be able to hear the flavour of the mode. So you can recognise it when you hear it, and recognise notes that don't belong in the mode when something like So What is playing. If you can sing the scale and visualise the intervals on the neck then I reckon you're halfway there.

The modes have different flavours, think of the first thing or emotion that comes to mind when you hear Dorian. How does the mode make you feel? Is it happy, sad, exotic, reminds you of eating a falafel in Egypt in the morning with that dog barking, or dumping that mad bird in Clacton when you were 17.

The key interval differences from the major scale will have most emotional effect. How do those notes make you feel? If you are able sing the scale in your head, see if you can progress to hearing and singing interval skips, ascending and descending in thirds, fourths, etc. The more you do this the more you will progress from recognising the emotional differences between major and natural minor and get into the nitty gritty of the modes. Practice the mode on your bass, just up and down repetitively over one octave, then two octaves then interval skips. Whenever you're hanging about with naff all to do, sing it in your head and visualise your fingers on the bass. It will soon come that you can hear a piece of bass and probably be able to recognise the scale it's based on.

[slobluesine]

[quote name='silddx' post='1237244' date='May 19 2011, 06:48 PM']I think the most important thing is to be able to hear the flavour of the mode. So you can recognise it when you hear it, and recognise notes that don't belong in the mode when something like So What is playing. If you can sing the scale and visualise the intervals on the neck then I reckon you're halfway there.

The modes have different flavours, think of the first thing or emotion that comes to mind when you hear Dorian. How does the mode make you feel? Is it happy, sad, exotic, reminds you of eating a falafel in Egypt in the morning with that dog barking, or dumping that mad bird in Clacton when you were 17.

The key interval differences from the major scale will have most emotional effect. How do those notes make you feel? If you are able sing the scale in your head, see if you can progress to hearing and singing interval skips, ascending and descending in thirds, fourths, etc. The more you do this the more you will progress from recognising the emotional differences between major and natural minor and get into the nitty gritty of the modes. Practice the mode on your bass, just up and down repetitively over one octave, then two octaves then interval skips. Whenever you're hanging about with naff all to do, sing it in your head and visualise your fingers on the bass. It will soon come that you can hear a piece of bass and probably be able to recognise the scale it's based on.[/quote]

exactly, i dont hear the notes like i do Blues lines and i've been playing for 45 years, and how the heck did you know about Crazy Clacton Kate?

Edited May 19, 2011 by slobluesine

[Doddy]

[quote name='slobluesine' post='1237238' date='May 19 2011, 06:41 PM']nope! this is what i'm asking, i'm used to std major/minor scales and i want to know more [/quote]

Ok,so there are a couple of ways of looking at the Dorian mode.

First of all you can look at it as a scale starting on the second degree of a major scale. If we take C major
as an example,the notes in the C major scale are C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C. Now if we play that same scale starting on the
second note we get D Dorian- D,E,F,G,A,B,C,D.

The other way of looking at it is,again using the same notes (D,E,F,G,A,B,C,D) we can see that it is essentially a
D minor scale with a raised sixth note-a D minor scale would be ,D,E,F,G,A,Bb,C,D. So you could look at the Dorian
mode as being a minor scale with a raised 6th. (I,II,bIII,IV,V,VI,bVII)

[xilddx]

[quote name='slobluesine' post='1237248' date='May 19 2011, 06:52 PM']exactly, i dont hear the notes like i do Blues lines and i've been playing for 45 years[/quote]
I bet you can tell the difference between tomato sauce and brown sauce, like major and minor sauces (). The modes are a bit like the learning difference between HP tomato sauce, Heinz tomato sauce, Tracklements tomato sauce, HP brown sauce, Tracklements brown sauce, etc. You just have to keep tasting blind until your palatte gets educated to the differences. A few you'll not like, I love lydian but dislike mixolydian for instance.

I have a tricky guitar gig coming up playing Indian raag based music. I've been asked to become very fluid with Phrygian mode in D, ascending without the third, descending with the third for the main theme, then call and response with the sitar in 13 /4 and 10/4 with lots of lines going over the bar and odd bar splits. I am doing exactly what I said in the post above and it's getting locked in my head quite nicely. I know I'll make mistakes mind

[slobluesine]

[quote name='silddx' post='1237261' date='May 19 2011, 07:04 PM']I bet you can tell the difference between tomato sauce and brown sauce, like major and minor sauces (). The modes are a bit like the learning difference between HP tomato sauce, Heinz tomato sauce, Tracklements tomato sauce, HP brown sauce, Tracklements brown sauce, etc. You just have to keep tasting blind until your palatte gets educated to the differences. A few you'll not like, I love lydian but dislike mixolydian for instance.

I have a tricky guitar gig coming up playing Indian raag based music. I've been asked to become very fluid with Phrygian mode in D, ascending without the third, descending with the third for the main theme, then call and response with the sitar in 13 /4 and 10/4 with lots of lines going over the bar and odd bar splits. I am doing exactly what I said in the post above and it's getting locked in my head quite nicely. I know I'll make mistakes mind [/quote]

you need help Silddx but i totally get what your saying, wunnerful

Edited May 19, 2011 by slobluesine

[Raslee]

[quote name='silddx' post='1237261' date='May 19 2011, 07:04 PM']I bet you can tell the difference between tomato sauce and brown sauce, like major and minor sauces (). The modes are a bit like the learning difference between HP tomato sauce, Heinz tomato sauce, Tracklements tomato sauce, HP brown sauce, Tracklements brown sauce, etc. You just have to keep tasting blind until your palatte gets educated to the differences. A few you'll not like, I love lydian but dislike mixolydian for instance.

I have a tricky guitar gig coming up playing Indian raag based music. I've been asked to become very fluid with Phrygian mode in D, ascending without the third, descending with the third for the main theme, then call and response with the sitar in 13 /4 and 10/4 with lots of lines going over the bar and odd bar splits. I am doing exactly what I said in the post above and it's getting locked in my head quite nicely. I know I'll make mistakes mind [/quote]
I love that description, i get it. I'm gonna nick practicing your raga mode, i'm quite into my eastern jammin',....do you have any other raga intervals Silddx???

[xilddx]

[quote name='slobluesine' post='1237276' date='May 19 2011, 07:15 PM'] you need help Silddx but i totally get what your saying, wunnerful[/quote]
Well, it's music innit. The stuff Doddy and Bilbo are telling you is the label, the music's inside the bottle. Use the label to tell you what's in the bottle. Then close your eyes and taste the music.

[Doddy]

[quote name='silddx' post='1237338' date='May 19 2011, 07:58 PM'] Well, it's music innit. The stuff Doddy and Bilbo are telling you is the label, the music's inside the bottle. Use the label to tell you what's in the bottle. Then close your eyes and taste the music.[/quote]

Like it.
Being able to make sense of the label means you won't blindly taste it and be shocked that you picked up the wrong bottle.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1237348' date='May 19 2011, 08:06 PM']Like it.
Being able to make sense of the label means you won't blindly taste it and be shocked that you picked up the wrong bottle.[/quote]
Sort of, the idea is to become so familiar with the sauces that the labels become irrelevant. Making sense of a label with the recipe on it means you can replicate the sauce to instructions. However, when you become completely at ease with the ingredients, their properties, and how they interact with the other ingredients means that eventually you can create your own slobluesine sauce that delights you and also works beautifully with chips and black pudding. That bottle doesn't need a label because it truly reflects your personality. It is slobluesine sauce and you would know it anywhere, and be able to make it at any time, and hopefully lots of other people prefer it to HP.

Edited May 19, 2011 by silddx

[Doddy]

Are we still talking about dorian modes??

[xilddx]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1237356' date='May 19 2011, 08:19 PM']Are we still talking about dorian modes?? [/quote]
Dorian is minor with a twist of lemon and a sprinkle of crushed coriander seeds

[Skol303]

[quote name='phil.i.stein' post='1237178' date='May 19 2011, 05:56 PM']so it's not about hiding your bass in the loft to give it vintage appeal whilst you get progressively younger.. [/quote]

Nice one ... I just watched that this week, oddly enough.

[slobluesine]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1237356' date='May 19 2011, 08:19 PM']Are we still talking about dorian modes?? [/quote]

keep up Doddy, that was starters

sorry but i don't get the loft stuff can someone pm me in?

Edited May 19, 2011 by slobluesine

[Wil]

But which mode would you serve with steak and chips?

[xilddx]

[quote name='Wil' post='1237427' date='May 19 2011, 09:14 PM']But which mode would you serve with steak and chips?[/quote]
Something sharp with some acidity to cut through fat (naturally you will be taking about a good well hung organic rib eye here) and oil. Lydian with its devil-invoking sharp four springs to mind. Along with a tomato and red onion salad with a little Maldon sea salt and a splash of raspberry vinegar

Edited May 19, 2011 by silddx