USA/UK Price Differences

[dc2009]

So just been looking at Tech 21 Sansamp RBI's, new, via the tech 21 site, you are greeted with a list price of $329, not bad I thought, so I checked the UK prices. The cheapest being £335 at DV247, and it was £399 at GAK, which is strange as they're normally some of the best for price.

I was understandably a bit hacked off at this obscene price difference, is there really a decent reason for it? I'm seriously considering importing one of the US ones, because I think it would be cheaper to do so.

I remember similarly, with my Dean (Edge q4 Bartolini) which I bought through a US music shop's ebay store (new). They shipped it in an indestructible Gator Hard/Soft case which they threw in for nothing, and including import tax, the thing got to my door for just under £400, the price for the UK, given by Dean's distributors here (Bill Lewington IIRC) for the exact same model was £500, and many shops had it on sale at more than that.

So why do we get ripped off here, and has anyone else got any success stories of beating it by importing directly from outside the UK?

Dan

[skej21]

Bassmerchant (amongst others - such as Bassgear in the post below) don't tend to come up on google shopping, so you should try shopping around yourself

Also, I agree that US prices are stupidly good. Just ordered some tuners and have to pick them up from th delivery office tomorrow. Hoping they don't have a nice customs charge waiting too

Edited May 24, 2011 by skej21

[obbm]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1243225' date='May 24 2011, 06:27 PM']So just been looking at Tech 21 Sansamp RBI's, new, via the tech 21 site, you are greeted with a list price of $329, not bad I thought, so I checked the UK prices. The cheapest being £335 at DV247, and it was £399 at GAK, which is strange as they're normally some of the best for price.

I was understandably a bit hacked off at this obscene price difference, is there really a decent reason for it? I'm seriously considering importing one of the US ones, because I think it would be cheaper to do so.

I remember similarly, with my Dean (Edge q4 Bartolini) which I bought through a US music shop's ebay store (new). They shipped it in an indestructible Gator Hard/Soft case which they threw in for nothing, and including import tax, the thing got to my door for just under £400, the price for the UK, given by Dean's distributors here (Bill Lewington IIRC) for the exact same model was £500, and many shops had it on sale at more than that.

So why do we get ripped off here, and has anyone else got any success stories of beating it by importing directly from outside the UK?

Dan[/quote]

No you are not getting ripped-off, welcome to the world of commerce.

Being a USA based company Tech 21 are able to sell directly to their dealer network. In other countries they sell to an importer who has to pay shipping, duty and tax on the product and then resells it on to the dealers, making a profit in the process to cover his cost of inventory, warranty, technical support, advertising, etc.

It works just the same the other way with US importers making a profit on UK made product, before selling them on to the stores. This is a reason why, if the market is large enough, some manufacturers choose to make products locally.

Even if items are made in China and imported directly someone has to coordinate ordering and local distribution. It costs to run a company.

To stop people like you and me trying to circumvent the local support organisation, many US Dealer Agreements forbid the sale of product overseas.

Some years ago I successfully bought and imported a brand new MM Bongo 5 from a US dealer, however they were unable to offer any warranty. It arrived with a dead pick-up which wasquite a problem to resolve. If I had bought it locally I could have thrown it straight back at the importer to be fixed.

Edited May 24, 2011 by obbm

[molan]

Is it the same as this one at BassGear?

[url="http://www.bassgear.co.uk/products-page/accessories/tech-21/sansamp-1-u-rackmount-bass-preamp/"]http://www.bassgear.co.uk/products-page/ac...nt-bass-preamp/[/url]

If so then Phil has them in stock at £269

[dc2009]

[quote name='molan' post='1243310' date='May 24 2011, 07:22 PM']Is it the same as this one at BassGear?

[url="http://www.bassgear.co.uk/products-page/accessories/tech-21/sansamp-1-u-rackmount-bass-preamp/"]http://www.bassgear.co.uk/products-page/ac...nt-bass-preamp/[/url]

If so then Phil has them in stock at £269 [/quote]

That's the ticket, and I hadn't even heard of it!

[gareth]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1243225' date='May 24 2011, 06:27 PM']So why do we get ripped off here, and has anyone else got any success stories of beating it by importing directly from outside the UK?

Dan[/quote]


Here's one:-

I have just imported a bass - a G&L L1000 - from the USA

I have done this before but a long time ago when the £ to $ rate was better than now.

Anyway I used USPS. The bass cost $455 and the USPS charge was $110 including insurance.

The bass took about 3 weeks to get here and the the first notification I had that it was in the UK was a letter from parcelforce (USPS's UK agents) that I owed some £82 VAT/Duty/Handling charge.

This I paid online and the bass was delivered to me next day.

The bass was in its original hardcase which was then packed by the seller into a cardboard guitar box.

The whole package arrived intact and without damage.

The total cost of the bass with hardcase to me is some £440 and is a significant saving on what the bass would have cost in the UK and that is if i could find one here as they are quite rare here.

Edited May 24, 2011 by gareth

[3below]

The whole $1 = £1 thing has been going on for a long time, even with software which is downloaded (I never pay for software now, this is written on a Linux box, I only use open source). It really hacks me off being 'ripped off'. I bought a set of DB strings from the USA then paid import and VAT. Still cheaper than direct from UK / EU.

Mostly I have been lucky with import duty and VAT, have got many items in without it (all legally). Sometimes you get stiffed as well with handling charges by UPS/ PO etc.

Factor in the import duty and VAT, what if it goes wrong and then make your choice.

[JTUK]

It has always been a problem..but it gets better if the kit has competition in this country.
If some store/distributor has a monopoly..and who wouldn't want that from their POV..then any price fixing is less transparent, so the first thing I do when checking prices and how they transpose over to here is to see how many U.K/europe outlets there are.
I also pick a near/compable competitor in kit in the U.S and see how their price travels

the more competition the better..generally.

[dc2009]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1243621' date='May 24 2011, 10:51 PM']the more competition the better..generally.[/quote]
agreed
:-)

and gareth, she sure is lovely, congrats!

[Prime_BASS]

I importedy ray second hand from the states.

After paying everything, I had it at home in a hardcase for less than £700.

I'd say before importing; check what you'll have to pay in duties first, also if it's from an online retailer always email and ask if they will send overseas, also I think it's worth making sure they add on the right cover for it aswell. Obviously it's more risky with more money. But I've imported hundreds of things from all over the world.

[Higgie]

I managed to snag my mint condition unlined fretless Stingray, from the year of my birth (1989) with a hardcase from the States for £685 all in. Bargain.

[dc2009]

[quote name='Higgie' post='1243739' date='May 25 2011, 12:45 AM']I managed to snag my mint condition unlined fretless Stingray, from the year of my birth (1989) with a hardcase from the States for £685 all in. Bargain.[/quote]

Are you kidding? o.O
That's ridiculous!

[obbm]

[quote name='Higgie' post='1243739' date='May 25 2011, 12:45 AM']I managed to snag my mint condition unlined fretless Stingray, from the year of my birth (1989) with a hardcase from the States for £685 all in. Bargain.[/quote]

Nice deal but the OP was referring to brand new items, not used. There will always be used bargains to be had.

[Russ]

It works the other way around too. For instance, Marshall, Ashdown and Blackstar amps cost a fortune in the US, and you should see the price of Warwick basses... eek. You'll find insane markups almost everywhere where there's any kind of importing going on that isn't from the far east.

[molan]

I'm not sure the mark ups charged by UK Bass Retailers are really that crazy for new stock. I've never met one who seems to be making much more than a basic living out of running his business.

We'd be really screwed if they all cut their margins down to 10% and then promptly went bust.

They have all getting hammered by online only distributors for a few years now and what would we all do if there was nowhere to go and actually try anything out (other than our wonderfully organised BC Bass Bashes of course!).

[Russ]

I think the other thing that goes on in the US that doesn't really happen in the UK is the "music superstore" phenomenon - Guitar Center, Sam Ash, Musician's Friend and so on. Manufacturers sell goods to these companies by the hundred, hence getting volume discounts, whereas they'll only sell a few at a time to shops in the UK.

Also, if you import things by the pallet-load you save a ton of money on shipping, but not so much if it's just individual items sent separately.

[dc2009]

[quote name='molan' post='1244293' date='May 25 2011, 02:30 PM']I'm not sure the mark ups charged by UK Bass Retailers are really that crazy for new stock. I've never met one who seems to be making much more than a basic living out of running his business.

We'd be really screwed if they all cut their margins down to 10% and then promptly went bust.

They have all getting hammered by online only distributors for a few years now and what would we all do if there was nowhere to go and actually try anything out (other than our wonderfully organised BC Bass Bashes of course!).[/quote]

True. But then music is a hobby, and guitar/bass shops are nothing more than specialist hobby shops, albeit quite popular ones, I wouldn't expect them to rake in a fortune. I appreciate they have to markup on anything they sell, but I do often wish there were fewer stores (with more of a monopoly) that could get away with charging less of a markup, because they sold that much more. Too many guitar stores I've been to are tiny affairs in an average sized town, where they have very few basses in, and the markup on any you might want is so huge, because the guy has to make his living off the one instrument he sells each week, that you know you can get it online or S/H for a lot less and don't buy it at all. IMO if we had a guitar center type chain, with stores all over europe, not just the uk, you would know that they weren't charging as much in markup, because they consistently sold more. IMO Thomann are closest to doing this (seem to sell the widest product range of any music distributor I've seen in Europe).

This wouldn't put any current shop workers out of jobs, they'd just end up working for the big company/ies, as happened with corner shop workers and the supermarkets. People used to be anti-supermarkets for putting the small places out of business, but who of us doesn't shop in a supermarket now? People would be anti a similar conglomerate taking over the music equipment industry, but they'd sure appreciate it happening once they got used to it and the benefits it brought them.

[molan]

Based on my experience of Guitar Center in the US I'd go for small specialist retailers every time. Never found one with a decent bass person and I've visited quite a few.

I must admit that I never go to regular guitar shops any more as I usually find them a waste of time/space. I only ever visit places like the Gallery in London or BassGear in Harrogate as they only stock bass stuff, the people are helpful & they know what they are talking about.

I really don't begrudge them a penny of their actual sales price (which is often less than list for larger ticket items because they know everyone likes a deal) because they offer a service the large chains can't compete with.

[Russ]

[quote name='molan' post='1244333' date='May 25 2011, 02:00 PM']Based on my experience of Guitar Center in the US I'd go for small specialist retailers every time. Never found one with a decent bass person and I've visited quite a few.[/quote]

I've been to a couple where there was reasonably knowledgeable bass people, and you can't argue with the prices, for the most part. For the bread-and-butter bass stuff (Fender, Ibanez, Musicman, etc) they're very well-priced, since they buy in bulk. The only problem is that the stuff they have on display is usually not set up properly. They must just pull the instruments out of the box and hang them up on the wall - I tried out a nice-looking Stingray 5 when I was at a GC last year, and it was unplayable - the strings were lying on the neck. That degree of inattention cost them a sale.

[dc2009]

@ Russ and Molan
In my experience, small stores are equally guilty of the above. There are guys who you can think are a waste of space and there are guys who can be so knowledgable, helpful and friendly that they are the difference between a sale and no sale, equally I'm sure both types are present in GCs or other large chains - this is the nature of the business imo. I personally think it could be done relatively easy, to set up a chain of stores where there is a standard that you know you can find everywhere, similar to (i can't think of it, the M&S equivalent in the US where they have to remember your name for ages). It wouldn't be hard for GC to implement an 'every guitar/bass gets this standard set up before going on display' policy.

[obbm]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1244312' date='May 25 2011, 02:45 PM']True. But then music is a hobby, and guitar/bass shops are nothing more than specialist hobby shops, albeit quite popular ones, I wouldn't expect them to rake in a fortune. I appreciate they have to markup on anything they sell, but I do often wish there were fewer stores (with more of a monopoly) that could get away with charging less of a markup, because they sold that much more. Too many guitar stores I've been to are tiny affairs in an average sized town, where they have very few basses in, and the markup on any you might want is so huge, because the guy has to make his living off the one instrument he sells each week, that you know you can get it online or S/H for a lot less and don't buy it at all.[/quote]

Sorry but you have no idea what the mark-up is because you don't know what it is costing them. If you are comparing with the US price then this is an unfair comparision.

I will reiterate what I said before, in the UK most US products are handled by an importer who forecasts, orders and buys from the manufacturer and resells to the store, so there are 2 sets of mark-up being applied.

Fender have Fender UK. The profit they make keeps Fender UK in business. In the case of Musicman it's Strings and Things who do just the same. They have to provide local warranty, etc which all cost money.

The exception are small, low volume US manufacturers who deal directly with UK sellers such as Bass Direct and Bass Gear.

[dc2009]

[quote name='obbm' post='1244391' date='May 25 2011, 03:42 PM']Sorry but you have no idea what the mark-up is because you don't know what it is costing them. If you are comparing with the US price then this is an unfair comparision.

I will reiterate what I said before, in the UK most US products are handled by an importer who forecasts, orders and buys from the manufacturer and resells to the store, so there are 2 sets of mark-up being applied.

Fender have Fender UK. The profit they make keeps Fender UK in business. In the case of Musicman it's Strings and Things who do just the same. They have to provide local warranty, etc which all cost money.

The exception are small, low volume US manufacturers who deal directly with UK sellers such as Bass Direct and Bass Gear.[/quote]

True I don't know what it is costing them, but when the markup from a local store is sufficient to make you realise that another, larger UK based store, e.g. GAK will do it for significantly less, you know their markup is more than that of GAKs, or that it costs less for it to get to GAK, which either way makes it cheaper for you buy from GAK than the local store, regardless of where the difference is made up.

EDIT: in that example I wasn't talking necessarily about US products, I just meant any product, let's take an Ibanez or a Dean as an example, on sale in a large UK store (e.g. GAK, dv247 among others) or my local music shop, typically the large retailer will sell it at a lot less.

Edited May 25, 2011 by dc2009

[obbm]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1244407' date='May 25 2011, 03:51 PM']True I don't know what it is costing them, but when the markup from a local store is sufficient to make you realise that another, larger UK based store, e.g. GAK will do it for significantly less, you know their markup is more than that of GAKs, or that it costs less for it to get to GAK, which either way makes it cheaper for you buy from GAK than the local store, regardless of where the difference is made up.

EDIT: in that example I wasn't talking necessarily about US products, I just meant any product, let's take an Ibanez or a Dean as an example, on sale in a large UK store (e.g. GAK, dv247 among others) or my local music shop, typically the large retailer will sell it at a lot less.[/quote]

Quite right, GAK etc., because of their volume of sales are able to buy cheaper AND sell at a lower margin as they have a very diverse product range and much bigger turnover with which to cover their costs and return a profit. Exactly the same argument applies to supermarkets v local corner shops. We don't have many of the latter any more and the same will happen to the local music shop if no-one buys anything from them.

Want to get rich quick? Get an industrial unit in a deproved area, stack it with equipment, sell it cheap on line, employ monkeys and pay peanuts. Someone tried in Liverpool and failed. Someone else tried to be the UK's equivalent of GC and failed. However they have one in Germany and it's still in business. Where do the Brits go wrong?

[dc2009]

[quote name='obbm' post='1244426' date='May 25 2011, 04:05 PM']Quite right, GAK etc., because of their volume of sales are able to buy cheaper AND sell at a lower margin as they have a very diverse product range and much bigger turnover with which to cover their costs and return a profit. Exactly the same argument applies to supermarkets v local corner shops. We don't have many of the latter any more and the same will happen to the local music shop if no-one buys anything from them.

Want to get rich quick? Get an industrial unit in a deproved area, stack it with equipment, sell it cheap on line, employ monkeys and pay peanuts. Someone tried in Liverpool and failed. Someone else tried to be the UK's equivalent of GC and failed. However they have one in Germany and it's still in business. Where do the Brits go wrong?[/quote]

Which in my post before (last one of the last page I think) I alluded to :-).
I quite like the idea of guitar supermarkets, and obviously it hasn't quite been done right with GC in the US, as you hear mixed reports, but I don't think it would be too hard to fix, to make a guitar store chain the Waitrose rather than the asda!

I'm interested to know that someone tried it, I wasn't aware of it happening before here. I quite like Thomann, and I know they sell and ship internationally, but if I was to be their business development guy, I'd be pushing for largish stores in largish cities across europe, sure it will cost more for them to do, but I think they'll get more sales to make up for it.

[Salt on your Bass?]

Wasnt the 'superstore' thing effectively what Sound Control aimed at/provided before going into receivership??