Sparky Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Hello all! Looking for some informed opinions to help scratch a terrible gassy itch! Not posted on here in many moons! Nor used the phrase GAS for quite some time!... But hey, guess what- i find myself 'in the market' so whoop!! Ok. Need to downsize (hopefully not downgrade) my rig- on a budget! Have a small practice amp for home, so i'm purchasing for the rig I use for gigging / rehearsing with my band (blues-rock..I guess. Loud drummer, bass, guitarist, 3 vocals). Budget- started off at £150 but as is always the case, window shopping finds me considering stuff for more. In all seriousness though- I can't afford to spend very much - especially as the band isn't playing nearly as often as we used to. So, here's what I'm thinking: CABS Swap my Trace 2103H 2x10 cab (which i'm finding too big and heavy) for another Hartke 210xl (I've already got one) so those will be my cabs- 2No. Hartke 210XL's rated 200w 8ohms. I like how they sound and they're not too big to store or too heavy to carry on my own. Wollop. HEAD Sell my Hartke HA3500 head for whatever I can get for it, throw a little money into the pot and get myself a 'micro' head of some description. So, based mainly on size, price and power, I've narrowed my options down to the following: Harley Benton BA250H 250W@4ohms £125 new Ashdown Little Giant 350 350W@4ohms £250 new / £120 s.h?? Gallien Krueger MB200 200W@4ohms £200 new / £120 s.h?? GK MB500 S/H £?????? Ampeg PF-350 350W@4ohms £280 new / none available s.h...yet? Markbass LM250 250W@4ohms £250 s.h..??????? So, what do peeps reckon I should I go for???! I'd absolutely gag for the Ampeg but fear that unless I can hold out and wait for one to come up second hand (might be in for a wait?!!) I'll be spending almost double my original budget. Which amp would compliment / make best use of my cabs? Be good if I could get away with using one on it's own for smaller venues and both for bigger ones. Will the G.K's 200W make full use of the cabs' when i'm using both? I Did read the impedance wiki thread but am still a little uncertain about speaker power and how that fits into the equation. Not going to get hung up on the numbers but just want to make sure I'm making use if what I've already got. What's wrong with the Harley Benton that it's so dirt cheap??!!! Does anyone have one they can give feedback on? Any others I haven't listed that you think i should be considering? £300 is absolute TOPS and to be honest, i can't really afford That. Figure Genz are out of my price range, as are eden, aguilar etc. etc. Hmmmm- apologies for the long post. Only changed my setup once since I got my first giggable rig 15yrs ago and I remember it was a palava that time too! Anyway. Thanks in advance folks. Hope you're all doing good. Best get off to bingo now laters! Sparky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algmusic Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Markbass all the way, the only one I haven't tried is the havery benton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Save up another £50 and get a used LMII off here, they've been around £350 second hand for ages now. I haven't heard of anybody who's tried the Harley Benton but they look extremely similar to the Ibanez Promethean head, the 500w version is only an extra £100 too. I'd be really interested to hear any opinions on that. I suppose Thomann do a no questions return service, just waiting for someone to take the plunge on one! The 250w version at £123 looks too good to be true. Also the LG1000 is an option, especially as the other versions (and the Superfly) are known for being underpowered - really a mismatched preamp issue. You'll still probably need some sort of preamp to get decent volume out of it though so it's a less "micro" option than the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidder652003 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 The superfly 2nd hand for about 100 quid aren't bad at all. Ive been using one for over a year now gigging regularly and it hasnt let me down. Plenty loud enough (500w @ 4ohm, 350 @ 8 ohm). If used with a nice tube preamp pedal (ie DHA VT2 or similar) make a light and cheap 2nd hand head. [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=135352&hl=superfly"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...amp;hl=superfly[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 The GK MB200 is a loud 200W (whatever that means ), I love mine and it's gigged with a loud band with no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote name='Merton' post='1245027' date='May 25 2011, 11:50 PM']The GK MB200 is a loud 200W (whatever that means ), I love mine and it's gigged with a loud band with no problem.[/quote] Funnily enough, I was just about to say that as much as I like my MB200 I found that it struggled in a rehearsal with a loud(ish) band - not sure that I would risk gigging it! Personally I would be tempted to save the extra and get a s/h LMII for live work..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakester Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 (edited) I picked up an MB500 for £300, absolute bargainbfor the amount of ooomph it has. Oh, and of threads you mentioned, it has the added advantage of being 350w at 8ohm and 500w at 4, unlike most of the other heads mentioned. That extra headroom would come in handy. Edited May 26, 2011 by Jakester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 (edited) The Ampegs have landed! I got a PF-500 the other day for £346, and have to say, I`m very impressed with it. Real Ampeggy sound, in a little easy to carry amp. If you`re gagging for the Ampeg, find out who has them in stock and try one out - after all, it`s still within budget. And hooked up to the two Hartke 210XLs, you`ll be getting the full power - 350 watts. I know some may say that isn`t enough for them, but on my PF-500, into one 8 ohm cab, so getting 300 watts, in a rock band with two guitarists, my volume doesn`t go over 3. Edited May 26, 2011 by Lozz196 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul h Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 (edited) I gig a Harley Benton BA500 through a Barefaced Compact. For the money, I can't fault the Harley Benton at all. In it's function it is pretty much a Markbass clone with vintage and modern filters. It's pretty loud although the clipping lights do come on early. That's slightly disconcerting but I haven't noticed the sound being affected yet. I guess the biggest gig I've used it at was a party at a golf club in front of 200/300 and it coped admirably. As for sound I can only comment on it paired with my Compact and that combination sounds great but has loads of mids. I knock the mids down completely to just get a flatter tone. It works for me and if I do need to cut through more I have plenty of mids available. Overall though the sound is fairly neutral and I am pretty lucky in that the Compact sounds totally awesome and does most of the work in that area! I am not sure I would be totally happy with the 250 version though. I reckon it might not quite have the headroom for a larger gig. EDIT:Edited just to say that as happy as I am with the HB if I could afford a Streamliner I would drop it in a second! Edited May 26, 2011 by paul h Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 I'd say a MB head will work wonders as they do have a bit of vintage vibe going on, but still clean and solid, but im not sure the LM250 (in fact most of the listed heads) will be powerful enough, based on the "loud drummer" bit, although i guess with PA support and a efficient cab things might sound ok. As lemmywinks suggested, maybe save up just that little bit more and get a 500watt head. There is a MB SA450 going for £350 but im sure the seller would cut you a deal ;-). This isnt quite as small as the micro heads but still very light and very powerful. You might also consider a Behrigner BDI21 (Sansamp BDDI copy) for around £25. This will give you more of an Ampeg tone to any head. Many of us use this DI box and they are quite well thought of. Considering the real thing cost almost 6 times the price you cant go wrong. Ive actually got both and happy to use either if needed, although i do use the BDDI on all the time these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMech Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Might be worth checking whether the second 2x10 is really needed before buying the second. If you do get a second, check out [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=134304&hl=210+vertical"]the thread about the merits of stacking them so that the speakers are in a vertical line[/url], it's meant to be better (albeit more wobbly). I think the same theory goes for if it's just the one, ideally raised up on a crate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Ideally, you should go & try all the amps out (thru your own cab if poss) & then get what you find suits you. I'd also look at a 2nd hand LMII or Dave's SA450 for that extra £50, they're definitely worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 [quote name='xgsjx' post='1245363' date='May 26 2011, 11:10 AM']Ideally, you should go & try all the amps out (thru your own cab if poss) & then get what you find suits you. I'd also look at a 2nd hand LMII or Dave's SA450 for that extra £50, they're definitely worth it.[/quote] I agree, ive recently found out that the cab can make or break the tone, regardless of head used. I thought my new Streamliner would be a fantastic head, based on all the reviews, but due to me using quite a mid voiced cab its really working for me. Funny enough it sounds great when i use it with ym MAG combos's 1x15 but not my gigging cab. Sparky, your welcome to come over to central London and try my SA450 out with your cab at my work place, even if you aren't interested in buying it. This would at least give you an idea of how the LM250 will sound. You could also try out the BDI21 to get an idea of how it can help get closer to the Ampeg tone. And im always happy to negotiate on price to help someone out ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 Thank you for your replies all. So - It'd seem that if I'm willing to pay 300+ it's Markbass no questions. Suits me!! Borrowed a MB combo (single 12" I think) at a gig once and it absolutely blew me away- loved it. Only thing holding me back it guilt! Just battling to justify spending that amount when the band are playing so infrequently.. That said, if I did splash out, I wouldn't be looking to change again for quite some time. Same goes for the Ampeg... Suppose if we're only playing a few gigs a year, it Would be nice to sound the sh*t for them!!! Thanks Merton & Pete for your input on the G.K.. What cab(s) are you both using? Could someone help me out on the maths for this please- am I going to be leaving a lot of cab unpowered with a 200w amp? Likewise, if I end up with a 500w head, is that a waste of amp power?? Does 2x 200w cabs = 400w capacity?? Ie. A 400w amp would be ideal to run 2x 200w cabs?! Ergh... Realise it's not as straight forward as that and has to do with setup efficiency etc. but like i said in my original post, Just want to make sure I'm making the most of what I have... Thanks Skidder - Yes, I'll look more into the ashdowns also- these fall much closer to my original budget before I started gassing for more expensive stuff. Yeh Lozz, I like how the Ampeg looks and will try to test one out. Do you think these likely to start coming up second hand any time soon? I realise they're pretty new but i dig the idea of an amp that only has 5 nobs! looks like it's built pretty solid too... which is good - cause like i said - i'm not planning on changing up again any time soon - just can't afford (or justify) it... Thanks for that Paul (re. the Harley . £123 does seem an amazing price for any 350w amp head!! So worth a look for sure. Someone mentioned thomann's no questions return policy- is that for real? Might be worth buying one just to try it! The 500watter also may be a good bet... Dave - Will look into the D.I boxes you mentioned - Know nothing about that stuff but am interested. I like a pretty plain sound and am always wanting to cut through the mix more - will this help? When i played through the markbass that time, i dug how well i could hear myself - even though the combo was sitting round my ankles! Z-Mech. I've not read the thread on stacking vertically, but i can see how that'd work... when we rehearse, i often sit down so my ears are closer to my cabs. Other than all that, I think I may just need to bide my time and watch the BC marketplace like a hawk-- for that £200 quick sale Markbass LMII ;-) ...and... i'm spent. Many many thanks. Sparky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 (edited) Sparky. Thomanns have a fantastic returns policy. Ive had to send gear back to them in the past and its definitely no questions asked, and they email you the labels etc, you just arrange a pickup using their account and thats it really. No extra cost to you. The BDI21 will give you some extra tone options, more low end and sparkle, with some grit if needed. It does have a mid scoop though but as long as you keep the blend knob low it can work wonders for giving a SS head a warmer tone. Its certainly woken my MB head up and i couldn't imagine not using it these days (although i use the BDDI rather thna the BDI21). As far as your cabs go, 2 x Hartke 210XL's rated 200w 8ohms will allow you to use a head that puts out 500watts at 4 ohms and should be a good match. If you are interested in the SA450 your welcome to borrow it for a week or so, no pressure to buy it. It should give you some idea of the volume its capable of. Edited May 26, 2011 by dave_bass5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algmusic Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 in the long run, spending an extra £50 for something like the MB LM2/3, will save you alot of phaffing and money in the future, also 500@4ohm is PLENTY!! the DI sound is nice too.. I have the sansamp, it's a good little partner for the future.. the sansamps is much more hardwearing, but spend more on the Amp if it's too tight on the pocket.. just don't what I did with cabs, where I tried to buy cheap then ended up buying/selling 4 cabs only to end up with the one I actually wanted 5months later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 I've always been a little dismissive of the LM250 and the lower powered micro-heads, perhaps unjustly as i've never actually tried one. I've always seen them as much less power for not a great deal less than their bigger brothers - the LM250 is about £100 less than the LMII on the used market Are they suitable for gigging with loud drummers? I suppose it only gives an extra ~3db and in most cases the cabs will be the limiting factor. I tried my LMII with my old 410XL and whilst it sounded really good it didn't get to the same volume levels as my Schroeder, however that cab does seem to make any amp sound loud as hell. FWIW i think a vertically stacked 2 x 210XL rig would be pretty sweet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 [quote name='lemmywinks' post='1245491' date='May 26 2011, 12:44 PM']I tried my LMII with my old 410XL and whilst it sounded really good it didn't get to the same volume levels as my Schroeder, however that cab does seem to make any amp sound loud as hell.[/quote] Oh yeah, definitely. I got rid fo a Epifani UL212 because it was nowhere near as loud as my 1201R, but almost twice as large. Then again, the Schroeder's, especially the smaller ones, do have a certain tone that not everyone likes, and if im honest it wouldn't be my fist choice if i could use bigger cabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algmusic Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 [quote name='dave_bass5' post='1245508' date='May 26 2011, 12:52 PM']Oh yeah, definitely. I got rid fo a Epifani UL212 because it was nowhere near as loud as my 1201R, but almost twice as large. Then again, the Schroeder's, especially the smaller ones, do have a certain tone that not everyone likes, and if im honest it wouldn't be my fist choice if i could use bigger cabs.[/quote] That was my reason for not getting them.. very loud, but not quite the sound I go for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 [quote name='peteb' post='1245040' date='May 26 2011, 12:05 AM']Funnily enough, I was just about to say that as much as I like my MB200 I found that it struggled in a rehearsal with a loud(ish) band - not sure that I would risk gigging it![/quote] Really?! Haha, shows that one person's loud is another person's quiet [quote name='Sparky' post='1245388' date='May 26 2011, 11:28 AM']Thanks Merton & Pete for your input on the G.K.. What cab(s) are you both using?[/quote] Epifani UL 112 Series 2 (not mine). Cranked the gain to about 2 o'clock and it sounded great Don't get too caught up with the amp rating vs cab ratings, there's a whole sticky on it at the top of the Amps and Cabs forum which will explain it better than I can! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algmusic Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 [quote name='Merton' date='May 26 2011, 01:00 PM' post='1245523'] Really?! Haha, shows that one person's loud is another person's quiet WHAT??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 [quote name='algmusic' post='1245520' date='May 26 2011, 12:57 PM']That was my reason for not getting them.. very loud, but not quite the sound I go for[/quote] Yeah, they are an acquired taste, no doubt about that. After 5 years of using a 12xx cab im used to the tone, and it certainly gets the job done. I never need PA support, can drown my drummer out if needed and can always be heard clearly out in the audience. The low end is there, its just not wall shaking but i have had cabs in the past that sounded much nicer, cost more or less but never quite cut through the mix when used as a one cab rig at a loud gig. I do now use the BDDI partly to tame the low mids and this seems like a match made in heaven, so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 [quote name='Sparky' post='1245388' date='May 26 2011, 11:28 AM']Thank you for your replies all. Yeh Lozz, I like how the Ampeg looks and will try to test one out. Do you think these likely to start coming up second hand any time soon? I realise they're pretty new but i dig the idea of an amp that only has 5 nobs! looks like it's built pretty solid too... which is good - cause like i said - i'm not planning on changing up again any time soon - just can't afford (or justify) it... Sparky[/quote] As the Ampeg PFs have only recently - within the last month I think - hit the shores, its unlikely to see any 2nd hand for at least a couple of months. They are good though, and very well priced for the sound that they give. I think Ampeg realised the gap in their product range, and have filled it with some serious competition. Myself, I love Ampeg gear, but sold my stack, as I just couldn`t cart it about, due to a bad back. Now, I`ve got the sound I want, in an amp I can put in a lap-top case. And at less cost than Orange Terror, TC Electronic Classic 450, (both of which I`ve had, and are very good, btw)Markbass gear etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 You can quite easily roll back the mids to tame a 1212, the mid grunt is a mixed blessing as it gives so much perceived volume without cranking the amp, you kind of get used to having it there all the time. On the gigs we did with quality in-ears where the drummer could hear himself (and thus didn't bang the crap out of his kit) i could eq the amp how i wanted without having to worry abour cutting through a dense mix. It's amazing what the 1212r can sound like if you back the low mids off a bit, really modern sounding and sits in a mix really well. It sounded like a cab with a much larger internal volume IMO. Coupled with an Auralex Gramma i could wind the amp up and still get the immense volume without boominess. Err, a bit OT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 [quote name='lemmywinks' post='1245567' date='May 26 2011, 01:39 PM']You can quite easily roll back the mids to tame a 1212, the mid grunt is a mixed blessing as it gives so much perceived volume without cranking the amp, you kind of get used to having it there all the time. Coupled with an Auralex Gramma i could wind the amp up and still get the immense volume without boominess. Err, a bit OT![/quote] Agreed. I love the close up mid tone i get, yet out front the lows seem to be more prominent and so sound smoother. Two tones in one. I also use a Gramma pad and its very handy for our social club gigs. Sorry Sparky, no more of this silly Schroeder talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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