Ex Norman Watt Roy '62 Fender J in Shoreline Gold

[rodney72a]

Anybody got any info on originality? Decal isn't right for a '62.

[neilb]

[quote name='rodney72a' post='1247806' date='May 28 2011, 12:53 AM']Anybody got any info on originality? Decal isn't right for a '62.[/quote]


I can only authenticate the fact it is Normans bass, as he let me have a close look and play when I met him at a show in 2009, as per my photo above. On close inspection of the photos on the Baxter site, the extra patent number does indicate a slightly later year, however the "offset contour body" logo is year correct positioning.

Anyway, its Normans bloody bass here, it has more sweat in it than John Leslies handkerchief....its iconic!!

[crez5150]

[quote name='neilb' post='1247988' date='May 28 2011, 10:22 AM']it has more sweat in it than John Leslies handkerchief....its iconic!![/quote]

Genius!

[Johnnysonic]

Plus 1 on the decal not being right for a '62. That type of logo, with the separate 'offset contour body' part, dates from mid '64, and I have never seen the two parts of the logo placed so close together. Sorry to be so anal, but this raises some serious doubts about the bass.

Johnny

[molan]

Could it be a later neck on an older body?

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1247217' date='May 27 2011, 03:34 PM']Anyone got a photo showing a similar bass with the mutes in place?[/quote]

[Rick's Fine '52]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1247217' date='May 27 2011, 03:34 PM']Anyone got a photo showing a similar bass with the mutes in place?[/quote]

This is a close up of a '61 Jazz mute assembly, the guitar is on the left in the bottom pic. Hope this helps.

[attachment=81114:mutes.jpg]

[attachment=81115:trio_62__s.jpg]

[molan]

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='1248001' date='May 28 2011, 10:34 AM'][/quote]

Ooh, this one is nice, cool to still have those mutes in place, I'd really like to try some of these out

[neilb]

[quote name='Johnnysonic' post='1247993' date='May 28 2011, 10:26 AM']Plus 1 on the decal not being right for a '62. That type of logo, with the separate 'offset contour body' part, dates from mid '64, and I have never seen the two parts of the logo placed so close together. Sorry to be so anal, but this raises some serious doubts about the bass.

Johnny[/quote]


Prior to 1964, the two parts of the logo were this close, it was in 1964 that the offset bit moved to the far end of the stock.

[neilb]

[quote name='molan' post='1247999' date='May 28 2011, 10:31 AM']

Could it be a later neck on an older body?[/quote]


Possibly, but the logo itself is inconsistent. Some elements of a 62, some of a 64 or later. Anyway, its Normans bloody bass!!!!!! (have I already said that?)

[Johnnysonic]

[quote name='neilb' post='1248017' date='May 28 2011, 10:44 AM']Prior to 1964, the two parts of the logo were this close, it was in 1964 that the offset bit moved to the far end of the stock.[/quote]

I realise that. Before mid '64 the 'offset contour body' part was not only close to the 'Fender Jazz Bass etc' part, it was in the same decal 'island'. In mid '64, as you say, the 'offset' part separated and was placed on the ball end of the headstock. What we have here is a post mid '64 heastock decal, with two separate parts placed uniquely together.

J

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='neilb' post='1247988' date='May 28 2011, 10:22 AM']I can only authenticate the fact it is Normans bass, [b]as he let me have a close look and play when I met him [/b]at a show in 2009, as per my photo above. On close inspection of the photos on the Baxter site, the extra patent number does indicate a slightly later year, however the "offset contour body" logo is year correct positioning.

Anyway, its Normans bloody bass here, it has more sweat in it than John Leslies handkerchief....its iconic!![/quote]
Ooh what was it like to play?
(what's his set up like)

[MacDaddy]

if it's no longer good enough for Norman, it's not good enough for me.

Nice though.

[neilb]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1248064' date='May 28 2011, 11:29 AM']Ooh what was it like to play?
(what's his set up like)[/quote]


Quite a standard set up IIRC, poss higher action than I would have as Norm does "dig in" when he plays. Badass adds the usual oomph to the sound.

His rig was a brand new Trace, just literally put in place by the Trace guys minutes before the set. Managed to get a snap of the rig too, with Norm.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='neilb' post='1248086' date='May 28 2011, 11:43 AM']Quite a standard set up IIRC, poss higher action than I would have as Norm does "dig in" when he plays. Badass adds the usual oomph to the sound.

His rig was a brand new Trace, just literally put in place by the Trace guys minutes before the set. Managed to get a snap of the rig too, with Norm.

[/quote]
Sweet.
Oh for the luxury of roadies.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='neilb' post='1248021' date='May 28 2011, 10:46 AM']Possibly, but the logo itself is inconsistent. Some elements of a 62, some of a 64 or later. [u]Anyway, its Normans bloody bass[/u]!!!!!! (have I already said that?)[/quote]
I think the originality/validity of the bass will affect its value far more than whether the venerable NW owned/played it. So if Barrie's estimate of £10-£15k is right, that's going to be pretty pricey for what could potentially be a bit of a hybrid as opposed to an all original.

[MB1]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1247223' date='May 27 2011, 03:36 PM']You're obviously too young to have been touched by it's magic Steve.

For me, this bass is more iconic than any Jaco or Wooten original bass.[/quote]

MB1.
I'll Second that emotion!

...what about the Alembic?

[molan]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='1248145' date='May 28 2011, 12:30 PM']I think the originality/validity of the bass will affect its value far more than whether the venerable NW owned/played it. So if Barrie's estimate of £10-£15k is right, that's going to be pretty pricey for what could potentially be a bit of a hybrid as opposed to an all original. [/quote]

The price is how much they are asking for it rather than an estimate of what I thought it would sell for.

I think the general implication is that offers need to start at a minimum of £10K and that, unsurprisingly, £15K would snag it immediately

[neilb]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='1248145' date='May 28 2011, 12:30 PM']I think the originality/validity of the bass will affect its value far more than whether the venerable NW owned/played it. So if Barrie's estimate of £10-£15k is right, that's going to be pretty pricey for what could potentially be a bit of a hybrid as opposed to an all original. [/quote]


You may be right....or wrong.


On a grander scale, John Entwistles "Frankenbass" (made up of parts from a couple of basses) went for silly money, [u]because of its provenance[/u], regardless of it not being a complete bass.

[Ou7shined]

Surely the interest with this bass (and the reason we are talking about it) is because of [b]who's[/b] it is and not [b]what[/b] it is?
People put far too much stock in "mojo" these days (imho) but this bass is the embodiment of mojo and has it's place in the history of music. This bass is quite literally world famous.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1248203' date='May 28 2011, 01:17 PM']Surely the interest with this bass (and the reason we are talking about it) is because of [b]who's[/b] it is and not [b]what[/b] it is?
People put far too much stock in "mojo" these days (imho) but this bass is the embodiment of mojo and has it's place in the history of music. This bass is quite literally world famous.[/quote]
I'm struggling to agree with folks on this one! I loved the BHs and it was my era yet I'd have had no idea that this bass was NW's 'trademark' instrument. 'Literally world famous'... hmmmm maybe among a select clique of fellow bassists or musos but I'd be inclined to think that his bass wouldn't be high in many other folks estimation. If you are drawing a comparison to JE then he was literally a pioneer as much for his band as him as a bass player. Maybe it's just that I can't see £10k-£15k in a 60's bass that by our keen eyed detectives may have discrepancies!

However that's the great thing, we all have our views and there may well be a BH/NW fan out there who has a spare £15k, who will prove me wrong.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' post='1248002' date='May 28 2011, 10:34 AM']This is a close up of a '61 Jazz mute assembly, the guitar is on the left in the bottom pic. Hope this helps.

[attachment=81114:mutes.jpg]

[attachment=81115:trio_62__s.jpg][/quote]

And this is what they sound like:



Cross-referencing to another thread, it is entirely possible that these are "chops".

Edited May 28, 2011 by Happy Jack

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='1248207' date='May 28 2011, 01:26 PM']I'm struggling to agree with folks on this one! I loved the BHs and it was my era yet I'd have had no idea that this bass was NW's 'trademark' instrument. 'Literally world famous'... hmmmm maybe among a select clique of fellow bassists or musos but I'd be inclined to think that his bass wouldn't be high in many other folks estimation. If you are drawing a comparison to JE then he was literally a pioneer as much for his band as him as a bass player. Maybe it's just that I can't see £10k-£15k in a 60's bass that by our keen eyed detectives may have discrepancies!

However that's the great thing, we all have our views and there may well be a BH/NW fan out there who has a spare £15k, who will prove me wrong. [/quote]
Yeah I think the price may well be OTT too.... but when I say "world famous" I mean that a fair percentage of the world (who listen to western music) will have heard this bass, whether they know it or not.

[markorbit]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1248203' date='May 28 2011, 01:17 PM']this bass is the embodiment of mojo and has it's place in the history of music. This bass is quite literally world famous.[/quote]

Now if this was the bass that recorded Rhythm Stick then we could be talking real history and real mojo. But as far as I know it isn't. Rhythm Stick is Norman's most famous line and that could indeed have really boosted it's mojo.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='markorbit' post='1248266' date='May 28 2011, 02:36 PM']Now if this was the bass that recorded Rhythm Stick then we could be talking real history and real mojo. But as far as I know it isn't. Rhythm Stick is Norman's most famous line and that could indeed have really boosted it's mojo.[/quote]
Oh, that's a shame, I thought it was.
How about the other famous ones, What a Waste, Reasons to be Cheerful, Sex & Drugs & Rock & Roll etc.?