ZMech Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 [quote name='thepurpleblob' post='1256781' date='Jun 4 2011, 08:16 PM']Children's brains are wired up to learn stuff quickly..[/quote] I'm not sure that's true, I think it's just that they have excessive amounts of time. People say 'oh, but when you're a baby you learn how to speak in just a few years', whilst that's true, would it take any longer to learn if you just dumped an adult in a foreign country? I reckon they'd pick it up faster. If you didn't have school/work, and instead could spend many hours a day playing around with music, then yes, you'd learn it quickly too! The difference with starting as a kid is that if you average two hours a day from age 5, then you'll have your 10,000 hours by your early 20's. I think this is enhanced much further if you're surrounded by a musical family who constantly expose you to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 [quote name='ZMech' post='1256786' date='Jun 4 2011, 08:26 PM']I'm not sure that's true, I think it's just that they have excessive amounts of time. People say 'oh, but when you're a baby you learn how to speak in just a few years', whilst that's true, would it take any longer to learn if you just dumped an adult in a foreign country? I reckon they'd pick it up faster. If you didn't have school/work, and instead could spend many hours a day playing around with music, then yes, you'd learn it quickly too! The difference with starting as a kid is that if you average two hours a day from age 5, then you'll have your 10,000 hours by your early 20's. I think this is enhanced much further if you're surrounded by a musical family who constantly expose you to it.[/quote] It's actually (so I understand) way more complicated in reality. On a certain level, adults learn faster as they have much more prior knowledge and experience to rely on. However, children's brains are growing so have neurons actively making new connections. I think this means that they are better at soaking up stuff and remembering it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wez Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 A few years ago the BBC ran a program called the 'making of me' one of the people involved was Vanessa Mae, she wanted to find out whether it was nature or nurture that made her great at what she did. One segment of the show was her going to see a pchycologist who studied musical albility, he asked how many hours she had practiced from first taking up the violin to the age of 16 (11 years I think) and she came back with just over 7000 hours, he said this was about right and 75% of the making of a great player is down to practice. Mae started playing piano at the age of 3 and her mother was eventually to become her manager, these were probably both factors in her becoming an international star (music from an early age and a parent driven to see her suceed, she eventually sacked her mother as manager and they had a strained relationship after that) something else that i heard on a science podcast was about Albert Einstien. He apparently took up violin at the age of six. After he died they dissected his brain and found part of it was more developed than normal, this was put down to his early musical ability, something that is shown in most people with a similar musical background Ive played myself for 30 years on and off, completely self taught with no structure. I can play, not great but had some positive comments over the years. Personnally If i had been to lessons and taken more time to study rather than just play to other songs i would be a better player now. I would say that stuctured practice makes for the greatest part of a top player along with some physical traits ( im never gonna be a great footballer no matter how much i practice, my balance is all over the place) and a very musical background. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 [quote name='scottkincaid' post='1253441' date='Jun 2 2011, 04:34 AM']Some people are better or more naturally talented than others. For example, i have learned to play bass within two weeks, and i could now, pretty much play whatever you wanted; Funk, Indie, Rock, Metal ect. Whereas my friend has never had drum lessons, and he can play them better than most drummers i have seen. It just depends how musically inclined people are.[/quote] I've got to put this in the quotes thread - it's one of the funniest things I've ever read. Bet all you guys who have spent years having lessons & refining their playing are feeling pretty stupid now, aren't you? Two weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 [quote name='RhysP' post='1256866' date='Jun 4 2011, 09:48 PM']I've got to put this in the quotes thread - it's one of the funniest things I've ever read. Bet all you guys who have spent years having lessons & refining their playing are feeling pretty stupid now, aren't you? Two weeks. [/quote] Kids eh? To be fair, his profile says he plays other stuff including guitar. So, he's a guitarist who thinks that qualifies them to play bass. Worse!!! (Just kidding Scott, keep up the good work) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wez Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 [quote name='RhysP' post='1256866' date='Jun 4 2011, 09:48 PM']I've got to put this in the quotes thread - it's one of the funniest things I've ever read. Bet all you guys who have spent years having lessons & refining their playing are feeling pretty stupid now, aren't you? Two weeks. [/quote] Yeh just think 30 years wasted, i could have done it all in two weeks if only i had put the effort in, damn i need to find a dark corner and have a good cry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted June 5, 2011 Author Share Posted June 5, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Johnston' post='1256802' date='Jun 4 2011, 08:43 PM']Your scientist buddy with the bushy moustache done a program on that. One of the episodes was with an Indian family and the dealt with learning languages. In the home the parents spoke their native tongue (I think it was the mother who didn't speak much English) and of course the young kids were learning it too. But the family as a whole were also learning English. IIRC and it was a few years ago so this might not be 100% accurate. The Indian language has no "V" sound. The child picked up English no problem and was bi lingual but the mother had difficulties picking up some of the finer points like pronouncing words with the V sound in them.[/quote] Talking about language, my parents are Italian and Yugoslavian. Everyone asks me and my elder brother why we can't speak those languages. My mum and dad only knew bits of each others' languages, so when we were young there was a mixture of Italian, Yugoslav and English, especially as my mum and dad started to pick up English. Had they both been Italian, say, we would have heard that language spoken constantly in the household and consequently picked it up. Since reading the aforementioned book, I am now sufficiently convinced talent is not genetic. But that 10,000 hours needs to be progressive, and you should always strive to learn something new and more difficult in order to progress. Going back to the post about being able to play proficiently in two weeks, there is always a confidence boost with beginners. Working in a music shop, I see this all the time. Beginners will play loud, proud and very wrong, whilst proficient players will turn down. I remember being like that myself when I was a kid. My brother sent me out to a local shop to test out and buy a Marshall Fuzz pedal. Armed with my Santana riffs I bowled in, expecting to impress the staff. Luckily, one of the staff players, who was amazing, demo'ed it and gave me a reality check. Edited June 5, 2011 by Pete Academy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomEndian Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Just throwing in here to say that I read [i]Bounce[/i] last month, and it was fascinating. The stories of László Polgár (who raised his three girls as a psychological/sociological experiment to be some of the greatest chess grandmasters the world has seen) and Richard Williams (father of Venus and Serena Williams, who decided to raise tennis champions -- and he had no real idea about tennis -- after seeing a tennis player receiving a hefty winnings cheque on TV) were at that crossroads between amazing and terrifying. A really recommended read. While reading it, I realised that my 10,000 hours have probably been spent playing, listening to and mentally analysing music, rather than physically practising any one particular instrument. That's why, as a general rule, if I've heard a pop/rock song a couple of times, I can generally sit down at any one of three or four instruments and play it for you. I'm not that great (by any stretch of the imagination) on any instrument, but I've got music [b]in[/b] me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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