Tone, were they as bothered about it as us?

[silentbob]

Just been listening to Walk On By by The Stranglers and started thinking to myself, like i often do when listening to stuff, how did he get that tone? Then started wondering whether bass players had always strived to get their perfect sound, or was just a case of plug in your bass to whatever's available, bugger around with the pedal and amp settings for thirty seconds and that'll do, leaving future generations of bass players marvelling at their skill and spending hundreds of pounds trying to recreate that sound. Any thoughts?

[hellothere]

I think it depends on the bassist but I'm sure there are some who just dialled in whatever sounded ok and got on with it.

And then there are people like Tim Commerford from RATM who makes a big song and dance about not revealing the secret of his sound because it took him years to get so other people don't deserve to use it

[dc2009]

I remember back when I got BGM, James LoMenzo put in a full diagram of his horrendously complicated live rig etc, some of them are proud of it. I'm sure various guys, especially now, really try hard to get a great tone (I'm thinking Tool here), but IMO it even begins with what bass you get, and what the electronics are. I'm sure some albums are done bass -> straight into desk.

Man I cannot take my eyes off your avatar, who is she?

[silentbob]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1248327' date='May 28 2011, 03:34 PM']I remember back when I got BGM, James LoMenzo put in a full diagram of his horrendously complicated live rig etc, some of them are proud of it. I'm sure various guys, especially now, really try hard to get a great tone (I'm thinking Tool here), but IMO it even begins with what bass you get, and what the electronics are. I'm sure some albums are done bass -> straight into desk.

Man I cannot take my eyes off your avatar, who is she?[/quote]


Google Chuck Sarah Walker

[KK Jale]

I remember a magazine interview with JJ Burnel back in the day...

Journo: Why do you prefer maple-fingerboard Precision basses?
JJ Burnel: Because they bounce better.

[Doddy]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1248327' date='May 28 2011, 03:34 PM']but IMO it even begins with what bass you get, and what the electronics are.[/quote]

I think it ultimately starts with the player. Put someone else playing Tim Commerford's gear and it won't
sound like him.Likewise,Tim C will sound similar to how he does on his fancy rig with pretty much anything.

There is a video of Billy Sheehan playing a Danelectro at a trade show through a Pigtronix Philosophers Tone
pedal,and he sounds just like Billy Sheehan.

[krth1985]

My tone is whatever fits in with the rest of the band. I've got a sound I like to dial in at home, but live it just doesnt cut it.

[BassBod]

We've got many more choices and information these days. It used to be a case of, is it loud enough, then season to taste with bass and treble (plus mid if you were technical). Its a lot more complicated now!

[MrRatty]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1248346' date='May 28 2011, 03:44 PM']I think it ultimately starts with the player. Put someone else playing Tim Commerford's gear and it won't
sound like him.Likewise,Tim C will sound similar to how he does on his fancy rig with pretty much anything.

There is a video of Billy Sheehan playing a Danelectro at a trade show through a Pigtronix Philosophers Tone
pedal,and he sounds just like Billy Sheehan.[/quote]
I agree, I think much of somebody's sound comes from the person.

[BigRedX]

I'm still not convinced about this "your tone" thing.

I've had very different tones in most of the bands I've played with. They've been the right tones to work with the other instruments in the band, but they didn't sound at all similar.

I've had bass sounds that varied from clean bright and twangy with chorus, through to deep dark and dubby via fat rock with a touch of overdrive and many more. Each one was the right sound for the band I was in at the time.

[Conan]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1248931' date='May 29 2011, 09:37 AM']I'm still not convinced about this "your tone" thing.

I've had very different tones in most of the bands I've played with. They've been the right tones to work with the other instruments in the band, but they didn't sound at all similar.[/quote]

I agree. As a player you may well have "your style", but tone is much more subjective and will vary due to factors like the room you are playing in, the size of the audience (for live performances), the playback speakers (for recordings) and a hundred and one other variables!

I've never played an Alembic, don't own a fretless and am a recent convert to five strings - but when I borrowed Chris2112's Fretless Epic 5 and used it at a rehearsal, the band said that it still sounded like me!

[Conan]

[quote name='BassBod' post='1248910' date='May 29 2011, 09:10 AM']We've got many more choices and information these days. It used to be a case of, is it loud enough, then season to taste with bass and treble (plus mid if you were technical). Its a lot more complicated now![/quote]

I'm not sure it [i]is[/i] any more complicated now. I think the kind of bass players that use forums like this one like to convince ourselves that it is complex - but I think that in reality all most punters and fellow band members care about is that you can be heard, but not too loud. So a tone that cuts through the mix but doesn't dominate would seem to suit everyone!

Volume is obviously key to that. If you're not loud enough it doesn't matter what tone you have, but equally, a well-chosen tone will help you to become audible. So maybe it is a little bit complicated after all?!

I certainly recall from my early days of playing that the watts war was a big deal. If playing with a loud drummer (as I always seemed to) you needed plenty of power to be heard. The actual tone settings were secondary to that.

Often, what the audience hears is totally (and tonally!) different anyway - especially if you are going through a PA.

Still, it gives us all something to chat about doesn't it?

[chris_b]

My tone is what ever comes out of what I'm playing, usually flat with a little bass added.

I've been told that I always sound like me, which was meant as a compliment, but I thought I sounded different playing different gear! Always ask someone else what you sound like and you'll get a more accurate idea.

[icastle]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1248346' date='May 28 2011, 03:44 PM']I think it ultimately starts with the player. Put someone else playing Tim Commerford's gear and it won't
sound like him.Likewise,Tim C will sound similar to how he does on his fancy rig with pretty much anything.

There is a video of Billy Sheehan playing a Danelectro at a trade show through a Pigtronix Philosophers Tone
pedal,and he sounds just like Billy Sheehan.[/quote]

+1
Over the last 30 years I've gone through Roland, Hartke, Fender, Ampeg and Peavey and still sound like me.

[4000]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1248931' date='May 29 2011, 09:37 AM']I'm still not convinced about this "your tone" thing.

I've had very different tones in most of the bands I've played with. They've been the right tones to work with the other instruments in the band, but they didn't sound at all similar.

I've had bass sounds that varied from clean bright and twangy with chorus, through to deep dark and dubby via fat rock with a touch of overdrive and many more. Each one was the right sound for the band I was in at the time.[/quote]

I completely agree; I think what many people are pointing out is that often players play the same, rather than sound the same. As I've pointed out recently, Mark King on Jaydee, Status and Alembic basses may still be recognisable as Mark King, but his sound has been very different on each.

Edited May 29, 2011 by 4000

[deepbass5]

Starting with JJ Burnel, from an interview he stated he played most of his Stranglers material through his cab with one ripped speaker cone, apparently he and the others likes how it farted and broke up at volume and it became his sound.

As Conan said Tone is actually volume, need to think of a graphic how each frequency is attenuated compared to another and its 2nd,3rd harmonic etc. It all starts in the fingers, strings, pickups, wood, preamp, amp n speaker cab. Then there is the jolly old room to bugger it up. I have often wondered how Pro guys feel about leaving all that in someone’s hands, maybe just hearing it through in ear monitors and wondering what it is like at the Back. Thinking of Guy Pratt on the Floyd gig, you can't even go and hide or wallow in the warmth of your Rig.

A good tone makes me play well a bad tone leaves me tweaking all night and not concentrating on my playing.

Edited May 29, 2011 by deepbass5

[4000]

[quote name='icastle' post='1249040' date='May 29 2011, 12:08 PM']+1
Over the last 30 years I've gone through Roland, Hartke, Fender, Ampeg and Peavey and still sound like me.[/quote]

Every member of my band can tell you what each bass I've used over the past 15 years sounds like; even the singer, who doesn't play an instrument. Do I play like me? Yes. Is the sound I get playing each different instrument the same? No. Does Pino get the same sound the when playing his Musicman and his P? Does Entwistle get the same sound from all his various basses? Does Les Claypool get the same sound playing his Ric and his CTs? No. Ad infinitum.

Edited May 29, 2011 by 4000

[Doddy]

[quote name='4000' post='1249096' date='May 29 2011, 12:58 PM']Does Les Claypool get the same sound playing his Ric and his CTs? No.[/quote]
I don't think there is much difference in Claypools tone no matter if he's playing his Ric,his Jazz,his
Carl Thompson or his new Dan Mahoney.
In another thread,someone mentions that in Ed Friedlands instrument demos they all sound similar and to
me,that is totally understandable.

[BigRedX]

Regarding Ed's tone that was me.

Unless you are always playing the same kind of music, I think your tone will change over time. What I want out of a bass/rig changes depending on the band I am in. It would be interesting to compare Ed's very first Bass Whisperer demo with his latest one to see if there has been a change.

[4000]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1249103' date='May 29 2011, 01:07 PM']I don't think there is much difference in Claypools tone no matter if he's playing his Ric,his Jazz,his
Carl Thompson or his new Dan Mahoney.[/quote]

That staggers me. To me his CTs sound [i]nothing[/i] like his Ric. His Jazz sounds different again. I can only think you're listening to what he's playing or the sound you [i]think[/i] he's making rather than the sound he's [i]actually[/i] making.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjOM5YjMZ8w"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjOM5YjMZ8w[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS6Ptr2X72c&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS6Ptr2X72c...feature=related[/url]

If the bass sounds in the clips sound the same to you then you really are hearing things very, very differently to me. Although I have a friend who couldn't tell the difference between my 4001CS and my V63, when to me, even when he was playing them, they sounded like chalk & cheese. Maybe my ears are better than I thought!

What about my other examples? What about Entwistle? His Alembic sound is nothing like his P sound which is nothing like his T/Bird sound which is nothing like his Status sound. And yet your argument suggest they should all sound the same.

Jean Jacques Burnel to me sounds only vaguely like he used to (I much prefer his early sound to his current sound). When he was playing the Yams and Steinbergers he sounded different again.

[i]Some[/i] people may have the same sound whatever instrument they pick up, but in no way all.

Edited May 29, 2011 by 4000

[dc2009]

[quote name='silentbob' post='1248334' date='May 28 2011, 03:38 PM']Google Chuck Sarah Walker [/quote]

[Doddy]

[quote name='4000' post='1249446' date='May 29 2011, 05:44 PM']That staggers me. To me his CTs sound [i]nothing[/i] like his Ric. His Jazz sounds different again. I can only think you're listening to what he's playing or the sound you [i]think[/i] he's making rather than the sound he's [i]actually[/i] making.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjOM5YjMZ8w"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjOM5YjMZ8w[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS6Ptr2X72c&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS6Ptr2X72c...feature=related[/url]

If the bass sounds in the clips sound the same to you then you really are hearing things very, very differently to me. Although I have a friend who couldn't tell the difference between my 4001CS and my V63, when to me, even when he was playing them, they sounded like chalk & cheese. Maybe my ears are better than I thought![/quote]

To me,watching those clips I hear the Carl Thompson as being a little more midrange heavy and a bit less toppy
than the Ric,but the sound is still recognisably Claypool.
Your friend can't tell the difference between your two Rics? That doesn't surprise me at all.

[jonsmith]

I guess it depends on how you define tone and I think musicians (especially guitarists & bassists) tend to mean 'sound' rather than 'tone'. I think I have my own sound, in fact it's something I have to fight against in one of my bands as it would be inappropriate. It's mainly comes from playing style and then with different basses & amps the eq alters but the fundamental structure of the note remains intact.

Someone like Chris Squire tends to sound very distinctive & identifiable to me, regardless of what bass he is playing. Even the confusion over Geddy Lee's 4001 & Jazz use on Moving Pictures shows how much people can have a 'sound' independent of the bass. Yet I can easily tell my Wal apart from my Jazz or Rickenbacker when playing through the same gear on the same settings. It's a combination of factors, but I think that when you have a target sound in mind, then you will tweak until you get it, regardless of what you're using.

[quote name='Doddy' post='1249604' date='May 29 2011, 08:22 PM']Your friend can't tell the difference between your two Rics? That doesn't surprise me at all.[/quote]

Especially as the CS is virtually identical to the V63.

[silentbob]

[quote name='jonsmith' post='1249633' date='May 29 2011, 08:48 PM']I guess it depends on how you define tone and I think musicians (especially guitarists & bassists) tend to mean 'sound' rather than 'tone'. I think I have my own sound, in fact it's something I have to fight against in one of my bands as it would be inappropriate. It's mainly comes from playing style and then with different basses & amps the eq alters but the fundamental structure of the note remains intact.

Someone like Chris Squire tends to sound very distinctive & identifiable to me, regardless of what bass he is playing. Even the confusion over Geddy Lee's 4001 & Jazz use on Moving Pictures shows how much people can have a 'sound' independent of the bass. Yet I can easily tell my Wal apart from my Jazz or Rickenbacker when playing through the same gear on the same settings. It's a combination of factors, but I think that when you have a target sound in mind, then you will tweak until you get it, regardless of what you're using.



Especially as the CS is virtually identical to the V63.[/quote]

I think you're right here in that i'm confusing tone with sound. The point i was trying to make in the op was did the original musician really have to chase their sound, and spend hours trying different bass/amp/pedal combinations to get it exactly how they envisioned it, or was it just the sound that came out of the equipment they were using at the time and it was a case of "yup. that'll do".

[Spike Vincent]

[quote name='silentbob' post='1249650' date='May 29 2011, 09:02 PM']I think you're right here in that i'm confusing tone with sound. The point i was trying to make in the op was did the original musician really have to chase their sound, and spend hours trying different bass/amp/pedal combinations to get it exactly how they envisioned it, or was it just the sound that came out of the equipment they were using at the time and it was a case of "yup. that'll do".[/quote]


I think that's likely the case.Go back far enough and the bass options being Fender p with flatwounds through a Fender Bassman,I doubt many were too concerned with variations on sound.