Laying it down

[Jase]

Right, for the last three nights I've been playing some ACDC covers with a band..."so what" you might say...I recorded the gigs and I suck to be honest, not at laying it down or playing in the pocket......I'm not cutting it with ACDC tracks all other straight rock and pumping type tracks I have no problem with, it's these guys ACDC, what is that feel? Does any body know what I mean? it's the simplest of riffs and licks but believe it or not "Whole lotta Rosie" is the hardest groove I've tried in ages, the riffs and such are fine, it's that verse thing..."never had a woman" etc, etc any body know how to really play it? it's not just straight pumping A's is it?...or is it?

[BOD2]

Its tight and it is a feel thing. The whole band has got to feel it too, though and it's important that the guitarist doesn't overplay. When playing along on their own a guitarist will often "fill in" parts of the bass so that it sounds good on its own, but thi doesn't work well when the band joins in.

Also, watch for the bass staying on the same note when the chords change - ACDC do that a lot and it really brings a "tension" into the song.

It sounds daft, but try playing the song on your hifi reasonably loud and listen to it from the room next door. Sometimes the bass parts really jump out when you do that.

[nottswarwick]

the drums are pretty key in this too - it may not be all your fault.

Take a typical rock feel - a nice "wide" groove, relaxed "broad" drumming feel, if you know what I mean - think some Bon Jovi stuff, for example Living on a Prayer, I have always found this to "sit" best when the drums are not exactly "behind" the beat, but certainly not in front or pushing it. Makes for a nice laid back yet powerful, full sound. I did an exercise with my band at a recent rehearsal - we jammed the aforementioned tune., and I asked the drummer to play "on" the beat but with relaxed shoulders (I used to teach drums...). I then played "on" the beat, and then again "ahead" of the beat, and then slightly "behind" the beat, and the difference in feel was quite marked. For me, the behind the beat version gave it a some real swagger (although I read that Hugh Macdonald actually plays it straight in the centre of the beat,........)

Plus Malcolm Young is a superb second guitarist, but the bass player (forget his name) is a well recognised unsung bass hero, and a classic example of tasteful rock bass work. Listen to "Shoot To Thrill" from Back In Black (I think??) - the way he subtly varies things throughout, the pedal note under changing chords, and the great unexpected climb up a note in the second chorus instead of down. Brilliant. The feel on this one seems to me to be bass drum and hi-hat driving on the nail, snare drum gving it a bit of width slightly late, and the bass feels just toward the back of the pocket to me (?), so it swings along superbly.

Also, You Shook Me All Night Long has a verse with no bass, and you can really see how importint the drum feel is in there - a real basic yet slippery groove, which could be could to play along with?

Also, the Stingray was a bass of choice for alot of the recorded originals, with the punch that comes with it. But I would get the drummer to have a listen to how it is done, and then try it a few different ways until one fits for you.

Bit of a ramble there, but I love these threads to talk about the finer points.

C

Edited February 20, 2008 by nottswarwick

[Jase]

Hi Chris, how's things? Some superb advice there mate, I had originally thought perhaps there may be a drum issue but I didn't want to start to point the finger, you're right, it misses the swing feel there is certainly the lack of a relaxed snare approach or width and late as you say, which might explain why I can't achieve that swinging yet tight bass feel.

You Shook Me All Night Long is actually in the set, along with Riff Raff and Highway to Hell, It's strange but the ACDC tracks are the ones that seem to lack the musicianship required to make them happen. They are the simplest yet most overlooked. Right, I feel armed with some decent advice I can approach the drummer with

Not only great advice, a great bass too! your Jazz happens to be the bass I use the most, still plays like a dream

Cheers Bod2, I listened to the track after your post and you're dead right, I shall be trying that out Friday night

Tidy darts.

[FJ1200]

[quote name='nottswarwick' post='144052' date='Feb 20 2008, 10:33 PM'], but the bass player (forget his name) is a well recognised unsung bass hero, and a classic example of tasteful rock bass work.[/quote]

Phill Rudd. Stood at the back, pounded it out.

I saw AC/DC a few times when I were a lad. Best was a Wembley on the Back In Black tour - real cannons on stage with thunderflashes in them! Great stuff.

EDIT - Yup - Cliff Williams it was. My memory failing me!

Edited February 27, 2008 by FJ1200

[Jase]

I had Cliff Williams in my head have I got it wrong?

[nottswarwick]

Rudd is the drummer I think, and now Williams is mentioned I remember he is bass man.

BTW, wish I still had that jazz bass Jase!

[tonyf]

[quote name='nottswarwick' post='144740' date='Feb 21 2008, 10:22 PM']Rudd is the drummer I think, and now Williams is mentioned I remember he is bass man.

BTW, wish I still had that jazz bass Jase![/quote]

Cliff Williams, bassist for the band from about 77 onwards. Phil Rudd is playing drums throughout the history of the band save for the late eighties to mid to late nineties.

Gotta admit, I grew up listening to Accca-dacca and most of their back catalogue is permanently etched into my subconcious. I can easily hum Angus Young's solos easier than any of the lyrics in any of the songs as I worshipped his "axe-itry" long before I ever took up bass and permanently left "the dark side" lol

In terms of the basslines, I've since discovered that they're one of those bands who's music appears to be much simpler than it actually is and rhythm/groove is the key. Cliff's lines are deceptive, there's a lock in with the rest of the band that only comes from years of devotion to the song rather than the performance.

Totally agree with Malcolm Young being a big part of the key to the groove of the band as well. A recent re-purchase of a remastered "Powerage" (1978 album i'd only ever had on LP) panned the guitars left and right of the stereo picture. It was such a joy isolating and discovering the two Young brother's differing but complementry guitar parts.

Yup, off to pick out "Highway to Hell" for the journey to work tomorrow!

T

[Jase]

[quote name='nottswarwick' post='144740' date='Feb 21 2008, 10:22 PM']Rudd is the drummer I think, and now Williams is mentioned I remember he is bass man.

BTW, wish I still had that jazz bass Jase![/quote]


Awww, feel guilty now. What are you using now chris?