DHA - New rackmount pre-amp

[Dood]

Don't forget to bring a kensington lock as well mate and don't set up near the door!!

[Dood]

oh, I also like the idea of the pre EQ fx loop too. I like to be able to 'EQ for the room' on my 'backline' but not affect the signal going to FOH. This is an excellent way for me to be able to do that, by using a DI that can pick off the signal pre or post EQ.

[DHA]

[quote name='MoJ' post='15043' date='Jun 10 2007, 01:38 PM']Dave,
I know you mentioned earlyier that you may possibley do a couple of units, but would it be worth doing a 'core' unit of say just the 2 independant channels, and then a list of optional extras that could be added like the compressor or blender? Obviously you couldnt have too many options as it would get silly and you only have so many hours in the day you can dedicate to your work.

Not sure if that helps or is possible?
Andy[/quote]

Good idea.

[DHA]

Thanks for all the feedback guys, it's very useful so please keep it coming.

I will put together a 2U super bass pre-amp as a starter and see what you guys think of it.

Dave

[MoJ]

Awesome.
Being as Im looking into going for seperate pre/power amps, I shall be interested to see the progress of this.
Definitly put me down for a unit with dual outputs!
Andy

[d-basser]

This sounds like an awesome idea, believe it or not a wee while back i was wondering to my self, with all these colourful DHA pedal will a pre amp surface and sure enough.

BTW MoJ, i am having a listen to your band, nice stuff, bit otep/arch enemy with the female growl but the cleaner vocal sections lift it nicely, love growl but cant have it all the time.

[MoJ]

[quote name='MoJ' post='15200' date='Jun 10 2007, 06:57 PM']Awesome.
Being as Im looking into going for seperate pre/power amps, I shall be interested to see the progress of this.
Definitly put me down for a unit with dual outputs!
Andy[/quote]

Just thought, as Im looking down the bi-amp route Id be using an external crossover unit (which unless Im mistaken Dave, you probably woulnt want to put into you unit. Could be wrong) and therefore probably wouldnt need dual outs other than to bypass a part of the crossover. However it could be one of the options for people, should they want to run stereo effetcs a la Dood. But then so could the crossover...

[quote name='d-basser' post='15210' date='Jun 10 2007, 07:27 PM']BTW MoJ, i am having a listen to your band, nice stuff, bit otep/arch enemy with the female growl but the cleaner vocal sections lift it nicely, love growl but cant have it all the time.[/quote]

Thanks d-basser. I have to say Im not normally one for growlers, unless its something unique. Its seems almost deriguer these days to have a vocalist doing that all the time, like with Arch Enemy or even other male vocalists. One of the many reasons why I accpeted to join the band as Jo (vocalist) does more 'traditional' vocals too. She has a very dynamic voice for it too and not all operatic like it can be sometimes with bands such as Nightwish (though Im not dissing that style, just not my thing and we're very far removed form Nightwish too).
Thanks for checking the site out dude.
Andy

[MoJ]

Dave,
if only for your info, I remebered that I was recently looking at the Fender TBP-1, which is a tube preamp with a seperate channel for overdrive. I mention as I know you use a tone stack based on the Fender Bassman circuit. It also has a blendable overdrive channel, but only one EQ for both channels. Obviously there are other features that have been mentioned like a user definible crossover, and some that havent such as "Room balance EQ" (????), a lot of which are I would imagine neither hear nor there. A [url="http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=2147000000"]link[/url] for it here, and also the [url="http://www.fender.com/products/view_specs.php?full_partno=2147000000&name=TBP-1+Tube+Bass+Pre-Amp"]spec[/url] here.
The average price Ive so far seen it around for is £6/700, so I think you could easily compete with this if you manage to keep it within the price you want.

And Im still going to champion a core unit with optional extras if it keeps the price affordable.
Thanks
Andy

[DHA]

[quote name='MoJ' post='15348' date='Jun 10 2007, 11:29 PM']Dave,
if only for your info, I remebered that I was recently looking at the Fender TBP-1, which is a tube preamp with a seperate channel for overdrive. I mention as I know you use a tone stack based on the Fender Bassman circuit. It also has a blendable overdrive channel, but only one EQ for both channels. Obviously there are other features that have been mentioned like a user definible crossover, and some that havent such as "Room balance EQ" (????), a lot of which are I would imagine neither hear nor there. A [url="http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=2147000000"]link[/url] for it here, and also the [url="http://www.fender.com/products/view_specs.php?full_partno=2147000000&name=TBP-1+Tube+Bass+Pre-Amp"]spec[/url] here.
The average price Ive so far seen it around for is £6/700, so I think you could easily compete with this if you manage to keep it within the price you want.

And Im still going to champion a core unit with optional extras if it keeps the price affordable.
Thanks
Andy[/quote]

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the info and support.

We will start putting a rack together this week.

Dave

[Kiwi]

[quote name='MoJ' post='15348' date='Jun 10 2007, 11:29 PM']and some that havent such as "Room balance EQ" (????)[/quote]

I can't speak for anyone else and their set up but I use the eq on the amp for address stage/room acoustics anyway.

Bass = fundamental tone/character
on board eq = coarse tone shaping for the bass according to the music style (before it goes to the desk)
amp eq = room acoustics (DI is taken pre amp eq)

[Toasted]

To Dave: Your PB-2 went out on tour with Joe Garcia in Germany today. I'm not sure who is next in line yet. But I'll let them know.

Edited June 11, 2007 by Crazykiwi

[Sugden]

Are you thinking about making a basic pre for people who dont really use over drive etc so just as a tube rack mount pre, along the lines of others out there such as the trace v-type and alembic f-1?

[DHA]

[quote name='Sugden' post='15526' date='Jun 11 2007, 12:29 PM']Are you thinking about making a basic pre for people who dont really use over drive etc so just as a tube rack mount pre, along the lines of others out there such as the trace v-type and alembic f-1?[/quote]

Hi,

I think people are using my rack designs as both pre-amps for driving power amps and as overdrives to drive amps. Not sure that I need change much anyway as my overdrives are really just pre-amps.

Or am I missing something?

Dave

[DHA]

[quote name='Toasted' post='15513' date='Jun 11 2007, 12:01 PM']To Dave: Your PB-2 went out on tour with Joe Garcia in Germany today. I'm not sure who is next in line yet. But I'll let them know.[/quote]

Good stuff,

I look forward to the comments.

Dave

[DHA]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='15468' date='Jun 11 2007, 10:33 AM']I can't speak for anyone else and their set up but I use the eq on the amp for address stage/room acoustics anyway.

Bass = fundamental tone/character
on board eq = coarse tone shaping for the bass according to the music style (before it goes to the desk)
amp eq = room acoustics (DI is taken pre amp eq)[/quote]

Hi Steve,

The rack units have an EQ by-pass switch anyway. But, I could just not fit the EQ to reduce cost if requested to do so.

Dave

[Kiwi]

[quote name='DHA' post='15637' date='Jun 11 2007, 03:09 PM']Hi Steve,

The rack units have an EQ by-pass switch anyway. But, I could just not fit the EQ to reduce cost if requested to do so.

Dave[/quote]

Dave,

I usually run two matching basses so I don't have to bother tweaking the amp eq. mid-set.

If anything, I'd probably need a 3 band parametric eq to:[list=1]
[*]pin point boomy frequencies (typically 60-150Hz),
[*]boost attack (1.2-2.5Khz)
[*]Boost lost mids somewhere around 250-800Hz
[/list]No reason why there couldn't be complete coverage of the frequency spectrum with those three controls like on a mixing desk. Variable bandwidth for each band would be good to ensure specific resonancy peaks could be addressed without sucking too much from the rest of the amplified sound. The same system worked very nicely on my Eden WT800 and I miss it. Sometimes +/-15dB hasn't been enough for some situations, so a boost of +/- 25dB would be handy if possible - I may never need it but its nice to know that its there if I ever do.

Rest of my wish list:
The pre has to sound neutral like a mixer module - that is to say, I get the same quality sound with everything flat going through the preamp as I would when plugging straight into the amp. That applies particularly to the frequencies over 5Khz and noise levels . John East on this forum has used the mixing desk idea for his very successful j-retro preamps.

I also don't need to have a valve in the signal chain all the time. Sometimes it colours the sound too much for the Smith basses that I use (but sounds good for the Musicman and Celinder). The valve compressor's a good idea though, I'm not fussed about the crossover since my amps have it built in anyway. A hi-gain aux out for a subwoofer or extension amp would be useful (as can be found on some desks).

The effects loop could ideally be stereo (in serial) and a mono loop (in parallel like on my old Eden WT800 which was surprisingly handy). Stereo DI (which can operate as mono if needed) would be good as well as line outs.

Channel gain matching (as has already been mentioned) is important to allow match outputs of basses. An LED traffic light type indicator like on the Trace heads would be VERY handy to have for each channel. The ability to switch the valve compressor and effects loops in/out on each channel would be handy too.

Definitely at least two inputs/channels as well. I do use three basses in certain situations (fretted 5, fretless 5 and a 4 for slapping or thumpy retro sounds).

In an ideal world it would be nice to cater for three basses somehow but I don't know how feasible this might be.

Thats all I can think of

[MoJ]

Hey, now you mention John East, would it be a crazy idea to get Dave to speak to John or Alan at ACG and see if he could fit the ACG filter preamp? Or something like it anyway?
Just a though
Andy

[MoJ]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='15468' date='Jun 11 2007, 10:33 AM']I can't speak for anyone else and their set up but I use the eq on the amp for address stage/room acoustics anyway.

Bass = fundamental tone/character
on board eq = coarse tone shaping for the bass according to the music style (before it goes to the desk)
amp eq = room acoustics (DI is taken pre amp eq)[/quote]

The TBP-1 has a sperate control called Room Balance on top of the EQ apparently.

[quote name='Fender TBP-1 Spec']*Room Balance - Global EQ shift for cabinets/stage response
-Clockwise cuts lower end frequencies while simultaneously raising upper frequencies
-Counter-clockwise brings up lower end frequencies while simultaneously lowering upper frequencies[/quote]

Not saying Dave should do this. Just highlighting it.

I like what you say about a parametric EQ, even if it was only for mid band fequencies, but I have a feeling that would put the price up a fair bit and would be in line with Dave's work of minimal solid state afair.
Thanks
Andy

[guyl]

Quote: "Definitely at least two inputs/channels as well. I do use three basses in certain situations (fretted 5, fretless 5 and a 4 for slapping or thumpy retro sounds).

In an ideal world it would be nice to cater for three basses somehow but I don't know how feasible this might be."


Kiwi

Have you ever seen a decent bass head or preamp that has 3 inputs?

I use 2 upright and one electric and end up using little soundcraft notepad on top of my rig. Would love to get home quicker by reducing leads etc, but can't find a simple 1U rackmounted mixer (or pre/amp), with jack inputs and basic controls all on the front.

[Dood]

awww.. i have seen one. but for the life of me cant remember where. maybe a company like Raven labs made a rack mountable box. I have seen 1u 'mixers' too. much like the soundcraft, just in a rack as oppoed to a desktop module.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='guyl' post='16105' date='Jun 12 2007, 11:15 AM']Have you ever seen a decent bass head or preamp that has 3 inputs?

I use 2 upright and one electric and end up using little soundcraft notepad on top of my rig. Would love to get home quicker by reducing leads etc, but can't find a simple 1U rackmounted mixer (or pre/amp), with jack inputs and basic controls all on the front.[/quote]

No I haven't, I was just testing the water with Dave. Of course, the simple solution would be to buy a rackmounted mixer but like you, I've not seen one that combines:

1) Para eq
2) Less than 4 channels
3) Rackmounted
4) valve compressor

with inputs mounted on the front.

[guyl]

[quote name='dood' post='16181' date='Jun 12 2007, 01:00 PM']awww.. i have seen one. but for the life of me cant remember where. maybe a company like Raven labs made a rack mountable box. I have seen 1u 'mixers' too. much like the soundcraft, just in a rack as oppoed to a desktop module.[/quote]

If you remember .......

Hang on - an idea ......

Dave - how much to knock together a 1U mixer, with 3 channels in (1/4" jack on the front please), and one channel out into your (unbuilt) preamp or our bass amps?

A bit of eq, volume and a mute for each channel would be handy.

Oh yeah .... I've a thing for flashing lights so a couple of LEDs too please.

[DHA]

[quote name='guyl' post='16224' date='Jun 12 2007, 01:45 PM']If you remember .......

Hang on - an idea ......

Dave - how much to knock together a 1U mixer, with 3 channels in (1/4" jack on the front please), and one channel out into your (unbuilt) preamp or our bass amps?

A bit of eq, volume and a mute for each channel would be handy.

Oh yeah .... I've a thing for flashing lights so a couple of LEDs too please.[/quote]

Hi,

I am trying to keep as much as possible to the valve/tube route as this is what poeple know us for. So, unless I see a demand for a valve mixer and EQ then it may not be something I would want to do.

But, maybe the idea of having a valve mixer on the front of one of my pre-amps is an option?

Why does it have to be a mixer and not a switcher as you will only be playing 1 bass at a time?

A 3 or 4 way input switch is much simpler and hence much cheaper.

Dave

[guyl]

[quote name='DHA' post='16267' date='Jun 12 2007, 02:50 PM']Hi,

I am trying to keep as much as possible to the valve/tube route as this is what poeple know us for. So, unless I see a demand for a valve mixer and EQ then it may not be something I would want to do.

But, maybe the idea of having a valve mixer on the front of one of my pre-amps is an option?

Why does it have to be a mixer and not a switcher as you will only be playing 1 bass at a time?

A 3 or 4 way input switch is much simpler and hence much cheaper.

Dave[/quote]


Sorry Dave - we're clogging your thread with general "wishlist" stuff.

My upright has a piezo pickup (to sound like an upright) and a magnetic pickup (when it starts to get loud). I blend the two on the hoof depending on the circumstances of the gig.

My electric is a whole different level of output again.

All I really need is a 1U mixer - but as I've never seen one off the shelf that is quite right, may end up get one custom made.

Probably something for a new thread.

Good luck with your preamp!

[DHA]

[quote name='guyl' post='16304' date='Jun 12 2007, 03:30 PM']Sorry Dave - we're clogging your thread with general "wishlist" stuff.

My upright has a piezo pickup (to sound like an upright) and a magnetic pickup (when it starts to get loud). I blend the two on the hoof depending on the circumstances of the gig.

My electric is a whole different level of output again.

All I really need is a 1U mixer - but as I've never seen one off the shelf that is quite right, may end up get one custom made.

Probably something for a new thread.

Good luck with your preamp![/quote]

No problem at all, in fact it's all useful stuff.

I will have a think about your requirement but I can't see how a custom one off would be cost effective?

Dave