Vertical stacking (of 2x10 cabs)

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='1258097' date='Jun 6 2011, 04:35 AM']If anyone thinks their bandmates are so clumsy that a tall stack will be knocked over... Well I can't see any band like that managing to get through a whole song without a cacophony of upended cymbal stands! [/quote]
+1. It's a very lame argument, really, a 2x10 stack is no higher than an 810, while taking up less floor space than an 8x10, or for that matter a horizontal 2x10.

[Lozz196]

But two 2x10s stacked vertically are a whole lot less stable. I`ve had a stack of amp head, 2x10 & 1x15 clattered into, and therefore toppled over. The centre of gravity on a 410, combined with it being on wheels usually means this will travel abit.

To me the theory is great, and makes complete sense, but for the type of gigs I do, and the clumsy people within the bands, for me it`s a no-goer.

[Krysbass]

I've been using a couple of Yamaha BBT 210-S cabs (now discontinued) vertically stacked since early 2008. As they are 4 ohm cabs, each having 250 watts continuous power handling they were perfect to pair up with the Ashdown Superfly I originally used. I currently use them with an Ashdown Little Giant 1000.

Main benefit is bags of power but small footprint - so perfect when having to compete with a loud drummer and 2 guitards playing cramped stages. And I'm 6'6" tall, so having the top of the cabs at least attempting to get somewhere in the general direction of ear-level with me is pretty essential too.

Never had any problems with the cabs toppling, or anyone behaving in a manner likely to topple 'em - but then, as I said before; I'm 6'6" tall and zealously defend the wellbeing of my gear!

[umph]

trying to persuade my guitarists to stack 2 2X12's vertically rather than use there 4X12's. Tis not working at all.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='umph' post='1261118' date='Jun 8 2011, 08:04 AM']trying to persuade my guitarists to stack 2 2X12's vertically rather than use there 4X12's. Tis not working at all.[/quote]
Getting guitar'd players to do what sounds best rather than what looks best is a fruitless quest. Doing so is a sign of intelligence, and so...

[escholl]

[quote name='umph' post='1261118' date='Jun 8 2011, 01:04 PM']trying to persuade my guitarists to stack 2 2X12's vertically rather than use there 4X12's. Tis not working at all.[/quote]
bet you wouldn't have much difficulty convincing them to stack two 4x12's though. mind you, the bass and drums would never be heard again.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='escholl' post='1261153' date='Jun 8 2011, 08:23 AM']bet you wouldn't have much difficulty convincing them to stack two 4x12's though. mind you, the bass and drums would never be heard again. [/quote]
Let's just say that if the average carpenter was as clueless about how his tools function as the average guitar'd player there would be a lot more guys nicknamed 'Lefty', and the prosthetics industry would dominate the Fortune 500.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='1258097' date='Jun 6 2011, 09:35 AM']If anyone thinks their bandmates are so clumsy that a tall stack will be knocked over... Well I can't see any band like that managing to get through a whole song without a cacophony of upended cymbal stands! [/quote]

Former bandmates of mine here:

[rOB]

I used to stack a 1x12 combo on top of a 2x10 arranged vertically. Was a lovely tall rig so I could hear it well next to a drummer and (IMO) sounded pretty good.

[JTUK]

I can't think what mush sounds some people must have in order to have to stack cabs to be able to hear properly.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1261701' date='Jun 8 2011, 07:45 PM']I can't think what mush sounds some people must have in order to have to stack cabs to be able to hear properly.[/quote]
My tone rocks. So there. And because the cab is by my ear I can lower the volume. It's all good.

[umph]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1261701' date='Jun 8 2011, 07:45 PM']I can't think what mush sounds some people must have in order to have to stack cabs to be able to hear properly.[/quote]

also depends on band mates tones.

[JTUK]

Of course it does depend on the overall band mix and that should be on everyones agenda..and gtrs and drums and keys, etc have to consider that as well.....but some people like a sound that sits is the mix..but then can't quite hear well enough.

Personally, a bass should never just be in the mix, IMO...and certainly not at stage level but that is a post for another thread.

[gafbass02]

Quote from a former drummist in the studio:
"The bass should be somewhere below the drums at the bottom of the track"




D1ck.

[chris_b]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='1261740' date='Jun 8 2011, 08:14 PM']....And because the cab is by my ear I can lower the volume....[/quote]
My cabs come up to my waist and I can hear every note. The last thing I want is a cab at ear level!

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1262093' date='Jun 8 2011, 11:27 PM']My cabs come up to my waist and I can hear every note. The last thing I want is a cab at ear level![/quote]
When you're playing a fretless P with flats, you need all the help you can get...

[TimR]

I have a single Warwick 211pro. I screwed feet on the side and use it on end. sounds pretty good to me. The W looks like a 3 though

Been saving for another to go on top but now I've got enough they've stopped making them and I'm not sure I need one

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1262093' date='Jun 8 2011, 06:27 PM']My cabs come up to my waist and I can hear every note.[/quote]If you play flats while wearing mittens with the high EQ all the way off, yes. Otherwise, no, due to the shrinking angle of dispersion as frequency increases. But then again, if you've got a spare pair of ears implanted on your arse...
The same phenomena of a lack of butt-mounted ears is why guitar'd players are so damn loud, worsened by the fact that they don't play into the lower frequencies that have wider dispersion, while they do into frequencies with far narrower dispersion than those of the bass.

[JTUK]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1262093' date='Jun 8 2011, 11:27 PM']My cabs come up to my waist and I can hear every note. The last thing I want is a cab at ear level![/quote]


Agree.... many times over .... and I have to hear every note and nuance.

Edited June 9, 2011 by JTUK

[BottomE]

I did it with two TC Electronic cabs. I put a 212 on the bottom and a 210 on top. Visually it was something - lots of comments about my "stack" but i wasn't happy for two reasons:

[list]
[*]I heard too much bass and it made playing uncomfortable
[*]Kept thinking it was going to fall over even though the thing didn't budge.
[/list]

[chris_b]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='1262167' date='Jun 9 2011, 12:31 AM']....If you play flats while wearing mittens with the high EQ all the way off, yes. Otherwise, no....[/quote]
Are you telling me I can't hear every note?

[Monckyman]

Pardon, you`ll have to speak up.

[escholl]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1262444' date='Jun 9 2011, 11:13 AM']Are you telling me I can't hear every note?[/quote]

The off-axis response of any pistonic driver is governed by a first-order Bessel function, and thus diminishes as measurement angle increases away from the surface normal. The rate at which it decreases is highly dependent upon frequency, with higher-frequencies having lower off-axis response for a given angle and driver radius 'a' than a lower frequency would. This off-axis response is also governed by the relationship between the wavenumber 'k' and driver radius 'a', with larger radii having worse off axis-performance than a smaller driver at the same frequency. Of course, at high frequencies, drivers will stop behaving pistonically and start behaving in more of a distributed mode pattern, making the approximations here imperfect. However, the theory still holds.

TL;DR -- what this means in english is that whilst you may be hearing every note you play, many of the higher harmonics of your playing are being directed squarely at your bottom, and odds are you will never hear them. However, on a raised stage, the cabs are likely about head-height with the audience, and thus the audience will hear a different bass tone to the one you hear. If your cabs have tweeters however, and assuming you don't stand directly in front of them, then it probably doesn't make a massive difference.

But I'm sure you are already aware of this phenomenon.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1262444' date='Jun 9 2011, 06:13 AM']Are you telling me I can't hear every note?[/quote]Not every frequency. Depending on the rig you run you may be missing a full octave or more of content that passes you by south of the waistline.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Bill Fitzmaurice