Ken Smith and customer service ?

[skankdelvar]

Just tried a little experiment. Went to UPS site.

3x2x2" package weighing one pound (seemed about right) from Ken's town to Paris (the OP was French but no stated location), sent fast with the usual add-ons like recorded delivery, handling on the French side, etc.

$147.25

Edited June 11, 2011 by skankdelvar

[stingrayPete1977]

This is madness surely, Are you putting feet or inches Skank?!

Edited June 11, 2011 by stingrayPete1977

[Ken Smith]

[quote name='bassbluestew' post='1262634' date='Jun 9 2011, 08:23 AM']Can I just clarify this poin heret, as I feel ( justifiably I'm afraid ) that this could turn even more into a Smith bashing session, the Smith I own is by far and away the best ( and to be fair the most expensive ) bass I have ever owned. I have however played much more expensive basses that just don't do it for me.

[b]Even the Smith website is poor. I find it confusing and difficult to navigate.

From a purely business perspective I think he really needs to adress this issue with a degree of urgency otherwise his business will suffer which would be a very real shame. I read an article recently - which I freely admit could be complete tosh - where the story went that the CR models are know no longer being referred to as Chuck Rainey models because of a dispute between Ken and Chuck. The point being, that if such stories are circulating freely then there is a problem at source.[/b]

Classic example of cracking product, crap customer service. I love my Smith but am not happy with the brand image.

Please sort it Ken, IMHumbleO the basses are the best, lets have the best customer service to match. I think that would be a world beating combo.
S[/quote]

Urgency? I read this just 2 hours ago and here I am. Was I too slow on joining the Forum and responding?

On the Website, it was designed over 10 years ago and when my son Mike can, he well load the new site. Most bass players we sell to are quite happy with the information we have. The new site will stream line its navigation. We do not make enough basses or have as big a business as some companies than can afford to hire outside companies to build and maintain their websites. Our prices are way below some that are trying to do the same and we offer a lot of features and build quality in every bass. To keep prices down, we do it in-house. My son is quite capable and is a Comp. Eng. Student at Drexel Univ. and does web-work and programing as well. He is just not here enough to get it done as we tried to complete it last summer. It is coming. I think information and product is more important then webdesign. It is all there but the design is a decade old. Sorry.

Now, your Chuck Rainy statement names no sense to me at all. Clearly you have put together some jumbled hearsay into something that you think is factual. Do you want the facts? Chuck and I have been friends now for nearly 30 years, way before he had a Smith bass. What bass he plays or buys has nothing to do with friendship. At one NAMM show when he had to go play a show at some string company he had an endorsement with, he came to my boot to get his bass strung with Smith Strings because he liked them better. I know the guy rubbing the other company booth and we both laughed at the fact he was doing a demo for them there as an endorser with a fresh set or our strings, not theirs. On occasion he calls and orders strings and pays for them as we have no product ties at the moment. This is not the only example of endorsing one brand and using a Smith. I know of other guys that did the same with our basses and strings.

On the CR=Chuch Rainy misnomer, I don;t think this will EVER end no matter how many times I explain. The BT Bolt-on was designed and made before Chuck ever played one or had his first Smith Bass. He did get one I believe the same year he got his first Smith, a neck thru BT 6 in Koa I recall. His wife at the time called and asked if we could do a model with his name on it and that is not something we really do. I did have a Bolt-on BT in the works in 6-string mainly because japan didn't get the Burner 6 samples to me when requested. They were worried the neck was too wide. So, we copied the copy of the BT and name the BTBO which we dubbed CR (Crunch Resonator, in-house name) but was listed I believe as a TRIBUTE to Chuck who played a Bolt-on bass. NOT his design and NOT a Chuck Rainey model. This was a bass we were making even before we met at the 1991 NAMM show. We had met years before in person and on the phone but that was the first time Chuck tried one of the 6s and wanted one.

I don't know of any bad blood between us, in business or otherwise. He was my favorite player whom I listened to and learned from when I was a player in NY and I will never loose respect for him as a musician.

Edited June 11, 2011 by Ken Smith

[paul h]

I'm going to start a UPS thread. Lets get those buggers in here to explain things!

[waynepunkdude]

USPS

First-Class Mail® International Package**
Maximum Value for Contents: $400.00
Other than rolls: Max. length 24", max length, height and depth (thickness) combined 36"
Rolls: Max. length 36". Max length and twice the diameter combined 42"

$2.59

[Ken Smith]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='1265530' date='Jun 11 2011, 06:35 PM']Just tried a little experiment. Went to UPS site.

3x2x2" package weighing one pound (seemed about right) from Ken's town to Paris (the OP was French but no stated location), with the usual add-ons like recorded delivery, handling on the French side, etc.

[b]$147.25[/b] [/quote]

Thank you. Last week it was about $100. but that included the estimated fuel surcharge that is on our UPS program which we use to ship UPS. We have a similar program now for USPS/Post as well.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1265533' date='Jun 11 2011, 11:39 PM']This is madness surely, Are you putting feet or inches Skank?![/quote]
The wife says inches, I say feet. That might be the problem.

I'll go do it again.

Edited June 11, 2011 by skankdelvar

[Ken Smith]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1263374' date='Jun 9 2011, 05:26 PM']A long time ago I order a bunch of strings from Ken at a NAMM show. Ken himself took the order and filled it out. He sent me the wrong strings, when I called he answered the phone. When I told him I got the wrong strings he first told me I was wrong and that I had what I ordered, after finally convincing him to look at the order he told me I was stupid for ordering what I did and the ones he sent were better and then went on to call me an idiot for ordering the wrong product from him.

F*** him! Get a different preamp, I never liked the pots he used any ways as they have no friction and are always changing settings. Bartolini's work great with his pickups and I'm sure most normal preamps will work as well. Of the three KS preamps I had all 3 had pot failures. It looks like the Burners use different preamps so my experience may not apply here.[/quote]

I told you what? I write codes for orders when I do and you didn't know exactly what that code meant (an that's an easy mistake for a customer) then we shipped the right strings. Even IF I sent the wrong strings, calling someone stupid or idiot is not something that went down. Also, when was this? When was I last at a NAMM show? What did you have for breakfast that day? Exactly!.. lol

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='1265536' date='Jun 11 2011, 11:40 PM']USPS

First-Class Mail® International Package**
Maximum Value for Contents: $400.00
Other than rolls: Max. length 24", max length, height and depth (thickness) combined 36"
Rolls: Max. length 36". Max length and twice the diameter combined 42"

$2.59[/quote]

That sounds more like it

[Ken Smith]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='1263426' date='Jun 9 2011, 06:12 PM']Sadly, that is just not true. Ken's basses are so good and have no trouble selling, so despite him being a total tosser he has always sold basses. No real incentive to have a good website,his order books were filled well before the internet!

I remember him being on Talkbass and being involved in frequent fallouts over upright basses, of which he claimed to be some authority. I was surprised Talkbass banned him as they tend to side with anyone who can offer them cash for advertising or other sly benefits. This is true with their arse kissing 'pro player' rules, in which criticising a pro player who uses the forum is not on, mainly because they don't want to upset anyone who might end up promoting the site.[/quote]

Lol.. TB banned me because one future MOD and now a MOD thru out some personal Insults at me from left field and I told the real MOD what I thought and told him to Ban me as they kept deleting my replies to him and about him because now that the first guy was a new MOD, I wasn't allowed to question him. Well, I am out of there. I was NEVER an advertiser on Talkbass, never so they had no reason to kiss anything of mine. I came there purely because of a crap fest like this one.

Edited June 11, 2011 by Ken Smith

[skankdelvar]

Ran it again. UPS = $147.25. Deffo.

Possible confusion - UPS = United Parcel Services. USPS = US Mail.

US Mail is cheaper, but I've heard [i]lots [/i]of horror stories.

Edited June 11, 2011 by skankdelvar

[TomKent]

[quote name='Ken Smith' post='1265555' date='Jun 11 2011, 11:52 PM']I came there purely because of a crap fest like this one.[/quote]

If I'm being honest, Ken, BC is by far the best moderated forum I've ever been on with a very accepting user-base. If you think this is a sh*t storm, this ain't nothing.

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='Machines' post='1265402' date='Jun 11 2011, 01:31 PM']I've just approved a validating account for Ken Smith, expect a response in the near future.[/quote]
Expect a lot of demands to how you run things.

[Ken Smith]

[quote name='kevin_lindsay' post='1264591' date='Jun 11 2011, 02:13 AM']I just remembered something about Ken Smith that I'd completely forgotten about.

Back in the 80's I saw the famous pic of Anthony Jackson in Bass Player sitting with his 6 string Smith bass. In my young mind I thought 'wow!' and decided I wanted a 6 stringer for myself. I couldn't afford the USA prices plus import tax and duty, so thought about getting z UK builder to make me one. This was before the Internet and easily available 6 string pickups and bridges. I got a local milling shop to make me z bridge to my own specs. I called Kent Armstrong about pickups and he told me that he actually made all of Ken's bass pickups but couldn't sell me a set as they were exclusively for Ken's business. Fair enough.

Ken said he could make me 6 string pickups but I'd have to supply something to create the mould shape. I was gonna use a wooden dolly for that but wondered if I could buy a set of pickups from ken directly. I called Ken Smith and told him about my conversation with Kent Armstrong, and to save me the hassle of making my own template, would it be possible to buy a set directly from himself? Unfortunately he said 'no' which I understood and fully appreciated.

Put phone down and think 'okay' time to do done shaping work myself. 15 mins later Kent Armstrong phones me to ask 'did you just phone Ken Smith?' - yup. Kent tells me Smith had phoned him screaming down thf phone that he was gonna sue Kent for breach of confidentiality about who made the pickups and called him 'a total ass' for even discussing things with me. Needless to say, Kent was not amused by Ken's attitude Nd went on to make mr a great set of pickups.

So, in my opinion also, Ken Smith will always remain a complete w***er.[/quote]

LOL.. did you record your conversation with Kent Armstrong? There was never any such threat of a law suit in anyway shape or form. Get Kent up here. He lives in USA by the way, not the UK.

[Ken Smith]

[quote name='lettsguitars' post='1264613' date='Jun 11 2011, 03:32 AM']utter rubbish. why would you use ups for such a small thing anyway? stick it in a jiffy and airmail it. a fiver would do that surely. i guess the guy makes enough money to not give a rats ass.[/quote]

The part is delicate and the legs can be broken off in a bag. That's why we bubble wrap the parts and ship them in a sturdy box, because he needs one that is NOT broken. That, he has already.. lol

If I have enough money not to give a Rats ass, would I even be here?

[thepurpleblob]

I have some sympathy - not much, but some.

I sometimes have to mail out DVDs of backup data to clients. I charge £75 for that. The DVD is pennies and the postage is less than a fiver special delivery. However, it takes time that I could be doing something else and my hourly rate is 75 quid an hour. Hence 75 quid for sending a disk!!

[xgsjx]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='1265557' date='Jun 11 2011, 11:54 PM']Ran it again. UPS = $147.25. Deffo.

Possible confusion - UPS = United Parcel Services. USPS = US Mail.

US Mail is cheaper, but I've heard [i]lots [/i]of horror stories.[/quote]
& I thought UPS stood for Useless Parcel Services.

I think it's good that Ken has come on here to put his side across & hopefully show that he does care about providing good customer service. Skank's post has shown that the OP wasn't given a made up postage price (tho it is steep).

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='Ken Smith' post='1265432' date='Jun 11 2011, 02:00 PM']Not to get into detail but Monster Cable (after replacing 100s or more Jacks) needs to let people know that they use a type 2 tip on their plugs which are slightly over-sized which do in time strip the inner spring of most Barrel type Jacks.[/quote]
When measured with a micrometer by a machinist no difference could be found in Monster cable or other brand plug sizes. This myth was debunked years ago as a weak attempt to pass the buck. All jacks wear out eventually. Just the claim that a thousandth of an inch more depression on a spring could make the difference between it working forever or failing is ridiculous.

[Ken Smith]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='1265557' date='Jun 11 2011, 06:54 PM']Ran it again. UPS = $147.25. Deffo.

Possible confusion - UPS = United Parcel Services. USPS = US Mail.

US Mail is cheaper, but I've heard [i]lots [/i]of horror stories.[/quote]

Yes, I think so but I did and always do my best to explain things.
UPS, trackable and fully insured, fastest and best serves and does brokerage as well if needed.
USPS/Postal, Cheaper, NOT trackable, on basses, max insurance is $1000 so parts ok for insurance, tracked at pickup and depeviry only, no exact time or guarantee, prey you get it.

I give both options and all the information I have at hand. What more can we do, work for Free?

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='Ken Smith' post='1265469' date='Jun 11 2011, 02:32 PM']Paypal costs us 4% and we have to wait a few days to get the payment[/quote]
Maybe you can talk to someone there as they only charge me 2.9% and the payment is instant. I wonder why they would charge you over a 1/3 more than me?

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='Ken Smith' post='1265581' date='Jun 12 2011, 12:08 AM']Yes, I think so but I did and always do my best to explain things.
UPS, trackable and fully insured, fastest and best serves and does brokerage as well if needed.
USPS/Postal, Cheaper, NOT trackable, on basses, max insurance is $1000 so parts ok for insurance, tracked at pickup and depeviry only, no exact time or guarantee, prey you get it.

I give both options and all the information I have at hand. What more can we do, work for Free?[/quote]
Well maybe you could just pop it into the post office next time you're in town 2 mins and you get a happy customer instead of quoting ridiculous postage to hope the problem goes away.

[RhysP]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='1265557' date='Jun 11 2011, 11:54 PM']Ran it again. UPS = $147.25. Deffo.

Possible confusion - UPS = United Parcel Services. USPS = US Mail.

US Mail is cheaper, but I've heard [i]lots [/i]of horror stories.[/quote]
I've only ever had stuff shipped from the USA via USPS & I've never had any problems.

They got my Hamer 12 string bass to me in two days - it was only in a cardboard box with a bit of thin foam wrapped around it (no case) & it was fine.

The only things I've ever had shipped that have got broken have been via UPS - if UPS is my only option then I'd rather not bother.

[Doddy]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1265577' date='Jun 12 2011, 12:03 AM']When measured with a micrometer by a machinist no difference could be found in Monster cable or other brand plug sizes. This myth was debunked years ago as a weak attempt to pass the buck. All jacks wear out eventually. Just the claim that a thousandth of an inch more depression on a spring could make the difference between it working forever or failing is ridiculous.[/quote]
Not wanting to derail things but I thought th Monster Cable,slightly oversized plugs was well known?
In fact Phil Jones amps used to (still?)void the warranty if you used a Monster cable,because of this.

[Ken Smith]

[quote name='thepurpleblob' post='1265573' date='Jun 11 2011, 07:00 PM']I have some sympathy - not much, but some.

I sometimes have to mail out DVDs of backup data to clients. I charge £75 for that. The DVD is pennies and the postage is less than a fiver special delivery. However, it takes time that I could be doing something else and my hourly rate is 75 quid an hour. Hence 75 quid for sending a disk!![/quote]

Yup, time is money and we only charge the book rates for shipping with expenses. Our small minimums are for extra product to cover the costs to make up an order and the buyer gets the extra products instead of us charging for time and expense and giving nothing else but the box.

Here's something we have gone thru ourselves so you don't think I am making this up. Years ago we bought metallic shielding paint for $130ish/gallon. It rose steadily to $160 a gallon. Then, there was a $250 minimum. We could only use 1 gallon because it had a 6 month shelf life. It was the best paint we could get so I paid $250 for the gallon. Year after year, the minimum went up but usually only 2 gallons would cover it. I would loose the 2nd gallon to shelf life so we paid and took just the gallon we could use. Recently while running low, the paint company assigned a new distributor and it was now like $600-700 to get that gallon. In the past, good shielding paint was not available so easily and the only alternative was Carbon paint which can go bad as well and still not so easy to find then. Now, we just bought the Carbon paint in a Pint and will buy as needed to keep it fresh as this can go bad as well if we buy too much but, we are paying retail per can. Still not $600 a gallon but we can get something that works. Also, there was always a [i][b]HazMat[/b][/i] shipping charge (hazardous materials) for this paint and had to be sent by special truck, NOT UPS. For a Gallon that would be maybe $10-20 to ship within a short distance, I was paying about $150 or so for the special shipping.

So, all you Smith bass lovers. Did we get a single thanks for US paying thru the nose to maintain the quality for YOUR Bass? Noooooooooooo... But crack one Egg.. oooooooooooooooooooooooo

Hey, how many Forums around the world do I jump on to complain on like some of you guys have done?? NONE.. Cost of doing business. It's part of growing up in life. Some things are just what they are. Name calling and bashing does not fix anything.

As stated even here by some of the Gripers, I can be easily reached by Email and I even answer the phone.. wow.. multi skills here guys.. walk and talk.. lol.. I also have my own Smith Bass Forums but I am not trying to advertise but I do take questions over there as well.

So, if you have a question, ask. I will answer it. That's the best I can do. I can't fix the world. Sorry!

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='Ken Smith' post='1265547' date='Jun 11 2011, 03:47 PM']I told you what? I write codes for orders when I do and you didn't know exactly what that code meant (an that's an easy mistake for a customer) then we shipped the right strings. Even IF I sent the wrong strings, calling someone stupid or idiot is not something that went down. Also, when was this? When was I last at a NAMM show? What did you have for breakfast that day? Exactly!.. lol[/quote]
You hand wrote the order yourself at NAMM, I told you the gauges. You sent different gauges to what you wrote on the order. You then called me "stupid" and agued I was better off with the mistakes you sent me because what I chose was unbalanced even though it was a set you sold with your name on them. This is another example of you not standing behind what you make and sell. After yelling at me for a while you did send me the proper strings in the gauges you wrote on the original invoice.

I have no idea what I had for breakfast that day but we often hit McDonalds on the way to NAMM, what did you have that day? I do know what you personally wrote on the invoice and so did you as when you finally calmed down you corrected your mistake. You never apologized for calling me stupid or yelling so loud at me on the phone my wife overheard it and asked who the F that was.