Lessons, do it properly or jump in

[GarethFlatlands]

I got hold of my first EUB this weekend (the Artisan, there's another thread which I'll update with a proper info once I've put the bass through it's paces) and am so far just enjoying noodling on it. The bass I borrowed before had bits of tape for the fret positions and I was basically treating it like an upright fretless rather than a double bass. I reckon I should probably learn to play this bass like I would a double bass so I can transfer to any other DB type instrument and was wondering how everyone got started on DB? Lessons are tempting but expensive but I think a few might be good, but are there any good books or online resources where I could go and learn the basics, scales, playing positions etc? I'm trying to avoid marking the neck and relying on that for note positions.

Thanks

Gareth

[Bilbo]

I would recommend a lesson or two just to get you started. The double bass is a different animal to the electric and, if you are not careful, you can do yourself harm by doing it wrong. I did and it cost me 10 years and a whole lot of pain. I accept that it is expensive but it is important to get basic technique right in order to prevent CTS/tendonitis/tennis elbow/long term problems. You don't have to get into weekly lessons for years, just a couple to set you up.

[BASainty]

Personally I would go with lessons, I started trying to teach myself but it wasnt gona happen even though I have been playing electric basses for a going on 4 years and i was getting no where with the double bass, then iv started getting lessons and they teach you to adapt your electric bass skills to use on a DB and iv made massive improvements since and the lesson I get aint too bad I pay £16 an hour.

And when you have the basics down (which if you been playing other basses you will find you will pick up DB skills pretty fast) you can then go off on your own more but I would highly recommend lessons to start.

[ZMech]

Well buying a book will cost about as much as a lesson, and I think you can learn more in an hour with a good teacher than you can from a book. Personally I've gone with the combined approach, where I've bought the rufus reid book (simandl was too much of a boring slog for me), and have had infrequent lessons, in which we partly discuss how best to approach the different exercises in the book. Vast amounts of learning to be had!

I'd also echo what bilbo said, £40 on a couple lessons now will save you alot of pain and medical bills later on!

[TheRev]

Definitley have at least one lesson to get your technique going in the right direction as it's easire to learn good habits than it is to unlearn bad ones.

[Doddy]

My former electric bass teacher doubled on upright,so when I started I had a couple of lessons
to get mainly my left hand sorted. Its totally worth having a couple of lessons to get some
technique. If you are treating it like a vertical fretless you'll likely develop problems-it's really
a different instrument.
Don't avoid playing with a bow either,it will make a huge difference to your playing.

I'll +1 the Rufus Reid book,'The Evolving Bassist',It's a great book. I like the Simandl and the
Ray Brown books aswell.

[GarethFlatlands]

Thanks for the advice peeps, I reckon a few lessons will go a long way for me so I'll look into teachers in Sheffield as well as checking out the books mentioned.

And I fully plan to get a bow and using it, it was one of the reasons I wanted an EUB with a proper radius. I think I'll get some left hand technique down first before trying to bow, don't want to try and do everything at once and my pizz is alright from playing regular bass so I can concentrate on the fretting hand.

[rikodriko]

agree with the above as well...

you cant play a DB well with the technique you use for BG - both the left and right hand techniques and fingerings are different - also, you need to get the height right as well , especially for the bow. Example, you use the tips of your fingers for BG fingerstyle, but on a DB you use more the fleshy sides of your fingers to dig in and get good volumenand sound and will develop callouses in slightly different places.

Also - markers are bad - try to avoid these - there are markers you can use on a DB without having to put stickers on '3rd fret' and '5th fret etc' - a good teacher will show you where these are without the need to deface the bass. Also - if you then try someone elses bass and there are no markers you will be stuffed. I had markers all over mine for about a year, but i then ditched them - i struggled for about 2 weeks, but got it eventually, now i can find more or less any note without needing to look - you develop the muscle memory over time...

Couple of lessons will do you good and prevent injury and picking up bad habits. Expect pain in the beginning - but dont push it too much and in a coupla weeks you will charging like ray brown - sort of...

[GarethFlatlands]

[quote name='rikodriko' post='1269758' date='Jun 15 2011, 10:28 AM']charging like ray brown[/quote]

I don't know who that is. So much to learn....

[Doddy]

[quote name='GarethFlatlands' post='1270625' date='Jun 15 2011, 08:27 PM']I don't know who that is. So much to learn....[/quote]

He's only one of the finest Jazz bass players. Check him out on the Oscar Peterson albums
'Night Train' and 'We get Requests'. He's on a ton of albums,but these are two of the best.

[thisnameistaken]

I never had a lesson. I saw some photos Jake posted on here showing the shape of his left hand and arm, and I saw a couple of videos on YouTube, and I practised in a disciplined way at home.

I'm pretty sure I don't do anything dangerous, bad or even especially unorthodox with my technique and I've not had any instruction. I have a friend who teaches double bass here in York and he's never flagged up any problems.

[fatback]

+1 on a couple of lessons. You do not want to hurt yourself, and without them you're likely to.

I disagree about markers. Just like with any fretless, in a gigging situation, you'll be glad of a couple of pencil marks if you can't hear yourself or you're jumping about.

In my limited (one year) experience, a few things are worth thinking about that may go against the grain with many people. This is mostly relevant if you need to play with a band soon.

1. I've come to believe that if you need to gig the upright fairly quickly with your existing band, you will have to prioritise your efforts. The bow will slow you up seriously. I gave up on the bow to concentrate on getting gig-ready, and that's been working for me. If you do that though, you have to be very sure of technique so you're not building up bad habits. You need to pay a lot of attention to intonation too, but passing on the bow for a while will not make you play out of tune. If you play fretless already, you have a head start in that your ears probably work.

2. Again, if you have a band, and depending on the kind of music, you may find your right hand is a bigger problem that your left in terms of speed and blisters. The Rufus Reid book is the best I've found so far for getting the right hand sorted at the very beginning (and it helps to get your reading going too as it starts work on open strings only. Add the Ed Friedland Jazz DVD section on right hand technique and you won't go wrong.

3. If you play fretless bass already and you use a pivoting thumb technique, follow Rabbath rather than Simandl. It makes more sense anyway, but the problem with the Rabbath method so far is poor quality teaching materials. I mean, what is it about this instrument that means the standard method and text (Simandl) is over a century old and makes little musical sense, and nobody so far has produced a decent tutor on the alternative, Rabbath?

For sure though, you'll find that for a fretless bass player, Rabbath is completely natural and you'll be able to play more or less straight away and pretty well in tune. If anything could have made me give up the instrument altogether, it was Simandl. Fine if you're 10 years old and mean to play in an orchestra in five years time. What we need is an upright bass tutor for electric bass players.

All the above is imo, of course, and I'm probably going to get murdered for this. But frankly, I've only been making progress since I started thinking for myself.

/now climbs into bunker and puts tin hat on/

PS. Best advice I ever saw on here about upright was to play the thing every day, even if it's only for 15mins. Make it part of your life. It works .

Edited June 16, 2011 by fatback

[rikodriko]

Yup fat back ... some good comments... and i'm too much of a newbie to start ripping into people.

for what its worth, using a bow will only make your intonation better - an off key note will sound much more pronounced played arco than pizz (I know from using a bow). but learning to use a bow can be tedious and time consuming.

Theres a very good aebersold book out there - 'jazz bowing for the improvising bassist' or something like that. Very good. Also the 'jazz bass book' by john goldsby is a very good technical reference as well as having loads of historical info on who is/was who in the jazz bass world .. sorry, all my refs are jazz based...

regarding markers - I agree in that they help in the beginning - like i said i used them, but the problem is that when you play, you end up focussing on the markers themselves rather than watching your hands, and most importantly (and patronisingly!) listening to the note. Once you rid yourself of this dependance you will automatically make minute adjustments as your ear gets more finely tuned to the note.

that said, i do have a sneaky pencil mark at the octave when trying to aim for thumb position.. its just that i got rid of the 3rd and 5th and 7th markers, just dont tell anyone...

Never heard of the rabbath pivoting technique - sounds like something good to try out i reckon.

[fatback]

I'm not against the bow for intonation - so many people say it's important - but if you need to make progress in a hurry then imo it can wait as long as your ear is good. Rabbath makes intonation problems much less anyhow because you have far fewer position changes.

I doubt anything I've said makes sense if you want to play jazz and you can take your time, but if you're playing more straightforward music and you need to be able to function quickly, then you just need to get on with it. I'll be returning to the bow shortly, cos I can pretty well do what my band needs me to be able to do.

And i'd kill to able to play some classical pieces.

btw, on markings, i've found that after a while of reading, I wasn't looking at them anyhow. But i do like to throw the bass about a bit.

Edited June 16, 2011 by fatback