Rehearsal Space

[essexbasscat]

Hi all, I guess this one is aimed more at the Double Bass players amongst us, but others may have something to contribute. Allow me to explain.

Like some others around here, I like to practice instruments that may not necessarily be the bass guitar i.e. Double Bass, acoustic guitar, saxophone, trumpet, cello etc if possible.
However, I live in a flat surrounded by neighbors on all sides. In order to avoid starting local wars, I don't play my acoustic instruments at home.

I can imagine that drummers have the same problem (which may have something to do with some of the issues raised around here about drummers )

Is it really a case of only being able to practice an acoustic instrument if you live in a detached house or a house with an isolated room ?

I've approached my local council several times, but met with comments such as 'you'll have to ask around and see if anyone is willing to let you use a space'.

So, to all those that practice acoustic instruments, how do you do it without upsetting all the locals ?

I'd really like some ideas here if at all possible, as I'd like to practice my instruments soon. Too much time has passed already and none of us are getting any younger !

Thanks everyone

[Wil]

Providing it's not after 11pm and it's not incredibley loud (IE drums) then I doubt most neighbours would mind too much? Perhaps ask them if there are any times when they'd rather not hear noise through the walls.

We have full band practice with amped guitars, bass and drums in our drummers flat a few nights a week, we just don't play after 11, or 10 on Sundays. Admittedly, it is in Stoke's Croft, so I guess it depends on the attitude of the locals...

[essexbasscat]

Erm, I wish that was the case, but I have neighbors to the left and right of me and one below. When thinking of the one below, tolerance is not one of the things that comes to mind. Quite the opposite I'm sad to say.

Thing is, like many campers around here, I'm likely to be practicing for some time to come. Given the daily and longterm nature of the noise, I'm sure that the patience of some folk would wear down eventually, even if they have a spirit of goodwill to begin with.

Does anyone out there know of solutions to this problem in their area (apart from the evening lessons in schools for the schoolchildren). Are there any solutions to this problem in other parts of the country ?

[Wil]

Paying to use a reheasal room is the only other solution that springs to mind, to be honest. They are normally the hang outs of loud electric bands but I've seen a fair number of people using them with acoustic instruments too.

[thisnameistaken]

Double bass isn't *that* loud. Knock it on the head before 9pm and he'll have nothing to complain about.

If he does complain, point out that you never practice beyond 9pm out of courtesy for your neighbours.

If you really want to go out of your way to keep your downstairs neighbour sweet, consider pulling up your floorboards and putting acoustic insulation in the gaps between you and him. It does work; I had an upstairs neighbour a couple of years back who asked - on the day we were helping them move out - if they'd ever been too noisy. I told him we hadn't heard a thing in two years, he said he hadn't heard us either.

[quote name='Wil' post='1272976' date='Jun 17 2011, 05:21 PM']Paying to use a reheasal room is the only other solution that springs to mind, to be honest. They are normally the hang outs of loud electric bands but I've seen a fair number of people using them with acoustic instruments too.[/quote]

Unfortunately depending on the studios you can end up being drowned out by bands in the other rooms if you try to practice with acoustic instruments. Or they are at least loud enough to be very distracting.

Edited June 17, 2011 by thisnameistaken

[Monckyman]

Can`t you use a mute for the Brass stuff?

[Ed_S]

Maybe see if you've got any small recording or voiceover studios around you. A lot of independent producers probably wouldn't mind you sticking a fiver in their tea and biscuits fund in exchange for letting you play in their live room while they're just mixing / mastering stuff in the control room. Lot cheaper and quieter than a dedicated rehearsal room.

[neepheid]

I feel quite lucky reading some of this. We're in the end of a terrace, so no-one to one side. We have a converted roofspace so the only thing directly below the bedroom/music playing area is ... us. To the other side there is a wall, a stairwell and another wall before hitting neighbours. As long as we keep the door shut, we've had no complaints. We've asked neighbours before if they get annoyed by my wife giving singing lessons, me receiving bass lessons or occasional acoustic get-togethers with the piano but no-one has said it's been a problem.

Or put more simply:



We're the one in blue. X marks the spot

[bassintheface]

[quote name='Monckyman' post='1273005' date='Jun 17 2011, 05:59 PM']Can`t you use a mute for the Brass stuff?[/quote]

Nope, well, not a 'standard' mute anyway - a mute colours the sound - it doesn't really reduce the volume (it does slightly) - there are many different types for different sounds / textures etc

You can by specific practise mutes but even these aren't 'perfect' - not bad though.
Ie - trumpet or cornets can have many including straight mutes, cup mutes, harmon mutes and so on for different effects.
There is a system by Yamaha called "silent brass" - you insert a sort of mute into your instrument - it hardly lets any sound out to be fair, it has a pickup / transducer inside - this has a wire which is attached to a little amp type box with a vol control and some pre set 'rooms' - ie, church, concert hall, small room etc.
There is a line out and a headphone out.
To be fair, they're pretty good but the trouble with putting anything inside your bell is that it makes you play sharp - you're then compensating with your lip or tuning slide.
Not ideal at all for 'standard open practise', but better than nowt I guess.

As a tuba player, the cost of a Yamaha silent brass system was pretty prohibitive - plus, it's not actually been available for bigger instruments until recently.
I started playing tuba at 12 - luckily we had a detached house and I could bugger off to a room away from everyone else.
Other than home practise it was practise at school, college, Uni etc to keep disturbances to a minimum.

Now I just keep my amp on low at home in another room. The wife is cool with it.
In terms of band rehearsals, we're dead lucky in that our singer's folks' converted their double garage into a fully soundproofed rehearsal & recording studio for their 2 sons. We still have use of it 13 years on! It's 2 floors, glazed vocal booth, storage, wall xlr patch panels etc and it's FOC!
Granted, we're DEAD lucky!

[essexbasscat]

Thanks for all the replies so far folks.

My house is in a really quiet road, which was great for academic studies, but not so cool for practicing instruments. I could approach the local rehearal studios and see if they are willing to let me use a space on a weekly basis for tea money, but I'm still going to look for another option if possible.

The brass mutes would help for sure, but I found an increase in back pressure when using them many years ago. Perhaps the more modern stuff isn't so restrictive.
As for muting my Cello and Violin, I can't think of anything other than plugging the F holes with cloth. That doesn't allow exploration of the instrument's voice however, so back to square one there.


Has anyone heard of any communal solutions to this problem up and down the country ? are there rooms that the local council has set aside for musical rehearsal in any part of the country ? or are all musicians running the risk of becoming universal social pariahs for pursuing their passion ?

I remember Bilbo having a thing or two to say about this topic, as social housing does limit the activities of musicians. On any given housing estate, I'll bet anyone within half a mile will tell you where the local drummer is !!

Are all of us truly only able to practice our instruments at the tolerance of our immediate neighbors ? or if we're lucky with the location of our house ?

Location, location, location !

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='bassintheface' post='1273039' date='Jun 17 2011, 06:29 PM']the trouble with putting anything inside your bell is that it makes you play sharp[/quote]

I bet it bloody does.

That's going to end up in a few signatures I reckon.

[bassintheface]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1273070' date='Jun 17 2011, 07:12 PM']I bet it bloody does.

That's going to end up in a few signatures I reckon.[/quote]

School jokes are the best!!

"I've dented my bell"
"if I point my bell...."
"I've a dirty bell..."
Et al....

[Mykesbass]

I'm with TNIT on it being fine before 9PM - I think an earlier post suggesting 11 is pushing it a bit, and as long as it is 1/2 to 1 hour even if neighbours (with a u) did complain they wouldn't have any case with the council.

[essexbasscat]

I'd like to hold off a bit before taking the approach of playing within what can be considered reasonable hours at home. If I take the approach of playing up to some time before 9PM, I'll be living in a state of armed truce with the locals, with everyone looking at each other over a fence of council rules Not good for personal karma.

Has anyone else found different solutions, such a hiring local halls on a goodwill / exchange of services basis ? kindly caretakers letting someone use a school room in the evening ? something more creative ?

Wouldn't it be great if there were a community solution to the rehearsal problem, instead of each individual having to re - invent his own solution every time

[Wil]

You can get quite effective bridge mutes for both cello and violin. I've used both and they do thin the sound, but significantly reduce the volume for practice. I actually prefer the sound of my cheap violin with the mute, to be honest, and you'd probably not hear it much through a dividing wall.

[skankdelvar]

Local community hall? Working mens' club? School hall? Upstairs room at a boozer during the day? A mate's lock-up garage?

Edited June 18, 2011 by skankdelvar

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='essexbasscat' post='1273370' date='Jun 18 2011, 12:31 AM']I'd like to hold off a bit before taking the approach of playing within what can be considered reasonable hours at home. If I take the approach of playing up to some time before 9PM, I'll be living in a state of armed truce with the locals, with everyone looking at each other over a fence of council rules Not good for personal karma.[/quote]

So what about pulling up your floorboards and soundproofing the gap? It definitely makes a big difference.

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='essexbasscat' post='1273370' date='Jun 18 2011, 12:31 AM']Has anyone else found different solutions, such a hiring local halls on a goodwill / exchange of services basis ? kindly caretakers letting someone use a school room in the evening ? something more creative ?[/quote]

Schools are encouraged/required to provide extended services so may well be a good call. Try and go for a night when other things are on in there so that you can split the lock-up fee and don't expect to be able to go on until late. The school where I am a Governor has dance groups, the local marching band (which uses a classroom in the winter and the playground in summer), and a karate club. Get to know the Premises Manager - they usually have a bad reputation but I think that is because the nature of their work puts naturally puts them in conflict with other staff and users of teh school. Our one is great once you get to know her and has often got me out of trouble with overflow parking for the rugby club.

I fully understand the "truce" problem - last thing you want is someone hedge-trimming at 8 on a Sunday morning or someone tinkering with an engine late at night justifying it because you have been playing your cello. Hadn't really occurred to me before.

[Len_derby]

Churches, most of which have adjacent community/meeting rooms.
However, they will almost certainly try to recruit you into their music group.
Even before they've heard you play

[Graham56]

Some years ago I used to live near Canterbury but worked in London.

I'd get a train out of Canterbury at about 7am. As the train pulled out of the station you could see into the empty car park of a DIY store. If the weather was OK I'd often see a guy standing in this car park, next to his car, blowing away on a sax.

That's dedication I guess.

Cheers

Graham

[Bankai]

I live in a semi-detached and play drums. I don't play after 7pm and make sure not to play louder than is necessary.

Don't have any trouble or complaints really unless there's some garden party on next door something like that.

[Blademan_98]

My solution (before building my music room in the garden!) was to put carpet on the walls and rubber mats on the floor.

It helped deaden the sound.

It did not eradicate it but the neighbours found it acceptable.

[Cat Burrito]

I live in a terraced house and I worry about noise. Or did - my neighbours are remarkably less concerned! So now I stop tip toeing around and just stick to sensible levels and times. Double bass and acoustic guitar don't really make all that much noise but my concerns with your list would be the trumpet and the sax. That said neighbours can be more forgiving if you are not 7yrs old and making up for lack of talent with sheer enthusiasm.

The basic rule of thumb I think is have a set time you practice and don't deviate. After 9pm is rude and so is anything much before midday. Bear in mind some of your neighbours might work shifts - we don't all live in the 9-5 world. The council response might have appeared unhelpful but actually people don't speak to neighbours enough and it's amazing how much a simple conversation can pre-empty a lot of negative feeling. I've dealt with a few neighbourhood disputes professionally and they are a real pain. If you were to stick to a set time within the flat and go to your neighbours with this as a proposal I reckon you'd be surprised by the response. It shows you are considerate of their feelings.

Sadly none of this seems to apply to the girl next door to me with her foghorn voice, getting herself in the most ridiculous domestics with her poor boyfriend and then the, ahem, making up part is carried out with similar volumes!

[essexbasscat]

Thanks for all your replies everyone, much appreciated

To summarise, the popular options seem to be (in no particular order);

- Negotiate with the locals regarding times to practice

- Beef up the home sound insulation, perhaps combined with local negotiation

- School halls, community halls, rooms over pubs etc


Reading the car park saxophonist reminded me of a whimsical notion of practicing in a camper van (or something like a Ford Galaxy) in road lay - bys. No negotiation required with anyone with minimal risk of irritating anyone else. Does anyone know if the rozzers get a bit uppity about this ?

It's also nice to see that at least one person understands my desire to preserve an operating system of respectful give and take with the locals.

Burrito B's post reminded me that one person's acceptable noise is another's irritation and everyone has their own ideas about what they consider to be acceptable noise. Does seem to be an issue of balancing personal freedom with respect for others.


What hasn't emerged here is any hint of a National system / database / resource of recognised places that practicing musicians can access in the name of pursuing their art without interfering with the interests of others.
I wonder how many potential musicians are lost due the difficulties of finding acceptable places to practice ? (also wonder how many more drummers could play with an even tempo and a balanced sound if they found it easier to practice ?)

I really do find it sad that musicians don't have wider support for practice facilities in this country. Do the Musician's Union have any take on this ?