Single-Cut: fad or future?

[Machines]

It does indeed seem to me some manufacturers are jumping on the bandwagon (ahem Warwick) to have an SC and the aesthetics of it seem to be the last consideration. I generally dislike them, but there's a couple I could live with:

ACG Skelf:


Wood & Tronics Chronos 5:

[Chris2112]

Ah, what a nice thread to come home to!

Well, I definitely think that singlecuts are a good thing. I don't think they add a massive amount tonally, but they look fantastic and a singlecut can still be an instrument that balances very well. See below:





It doesn't weight much because the body itself is relatively small, but the mass is balanced through the singlecut. I can quite happily say it's the best balancing headed bass I've ever played. It looks fantastic, it sounds fantastic and it feels fantastic.

is it the way forward? For me, it's probably the best way of making a boutique bass. This was the first singlecut I've owned and I didn't really know what to expect of it when I got it but it really has surpassed all expectations. If it were normal Harlot shape it wouldn't look as good, might not balance as well either. So I'll just leave it as it is.


There are a few companies who have got singlecuts very wrong, Warwick being one of them. They seem to have missed the point that in the Thumb, it's the small body and the wood choice that makes the bass. They've increased the body size and changed the wood choice to stop it weighing a tonne, and then lost the Thumb tone.

So, as we've assessed, singlecuts are great. That doesn't mean they'll change the world or the way basses are made. As we've seen, Status Graphite made a headless bass with active electronics, a graphite thru neck and a headless design in the 80's. I've just picked up a 1980's Series II today and it's one of the best basses I've ever played, easily the best Status. That bass was made in 1986, perhaps earlier - and yet ever since then, companies around the world have continued producing crap, like the Fender P bass for example. The fact is, bassists in general have pretty low standards of what they want from an instrument. They just want something they can plod the root note on, and P bass is that piece of crap with strings on it that will fit the bill.

To summarise, although there are better ways of doing things, there is no impetus to actually change the status quo as crap, boring basses continue to sell to ill-informed customers.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='bubinga5' post='1274301' date='Jun 19 2011, 12:33 AM']cant stand them..and IMO totally pointless, looks awful and [u]weighs more[/u].. does a SC Fodera sound better than a DC Fodera.. me think not... dont get me atarted on that Warwick thing..[/quote]
Maybe they weigh more than a bass that has the same design but with the wood cut away but by definition a SC doesn't have to be heavier than a DC. My Bolin weighs 8lb... is that heavy?

[quote name='bubinga5' post='1274302' date='Jun 19 2011, 12:35 AM']thats a good point..im thinking they dont need a truss rod though..?[/quote]
SC basses act in the same way and they do have rods.

Love em or loathe them; I would take my Bolin over virtually any other bass but I also love my Streamer, so I guess I have best of both worlds!

[cocco]

I had a single cut Shuker, played like a dream and sounded great! Just realised that Hi-fi wasn't for me.

[ahpook]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1274322' date='Jun 19 2011, 01:18 AM']Wow, mark, I think that looks spectacular. I thought the natural finish one on the website looked average, but in white that is seriously nice, not too sure why I'm the only one who seems to like it![/quote]

black on white on a warwick always looks classy, but i've yet to see a singlecut i like...

Edited June 19, 2011 by ahpook

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='Roland Rock' post='1274259' date='Jun 18 2011, 11:32 PM'].....



edit: obviously the attachment is a crap mockup done by me on a saturday night - God, I miss gigging![/quote]

That actually looks better than I thought it would!

I've played a few singlecuts that sound great and balance well but I always feel like I should take a jigsaw to them and finish them off

[AttitudeCastle]

The Warwick Thumb SC was actually designed by a contest winner (a thumb SC design contest) haha, i really don't like it though.

I think single cuts are like all other bass shapes, you like it or you don't (imho)

I like some single cuts and really don't like others, pretty love hate, like most of the ACGs i think look stunning, and Doods Doodle!

As with everything it's subjective, and about the "need to defend" thing, somethings more people are openly judgemental about (for example ERBs, many more people would 'judge' them than someone who plays a jazz bass) so the best thing is just to live with it so every bass player can sleep at night, or (more than currently) we'd be maniacs

[purpleblob]

I like SC and I like DC - just thought I'd say

In answer to the OP "fad or future", I'd say neither - they're just alternatives.

Edited June 19, 2011 by purpleblob

[Conan]

I believe I've made this point before...

[wrinkleygit]

Here's something to consider-

first look at the position of the top strap button, on mine it is over the 11/12 fret, when the bass is hung on a strap this brings the nut end closer to you, hang a small body bass ie hohner b2a on a strap & the strapbutton position pushes the nut end away from you.

secondly I'm no scientist but the greater neck contact/body mass against the neck must contribute to the tone, look at the basses I currently own & I have to say the karuna with it's cheap as chips "belcat" pickups & the most basic control layout produces a sound equal to them all.

thirdly, check out the weight, the Karuna single cut is the lightest bass I curently own

[4000]

[quote name='bubinga5' post='1274301' date='Jun 19 2011, 12:33 AM']cant stand them..and IMO totally pointless, looks awful and weighs more..[/quote]

My Sei s/cut was no more than 8 lbs and probably less. It was possibly the lightest Sei I've ever owned. It was also extremely comfortable, even more so than the 2 headless Seis I've had.

[JMT3781]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1274367' date='Jun 19 2011, 03:55 AM']You could also ask why those who use single cuts just can't accept some people don't like them and wonder why they feel a need to defend them. Like 7 strings or Bongo's.

There is no place on earth you are safe from judgement, just as you judged me in your post. What you can do is be confident in your choice and then not have the need to defend it against other opinions.[/quote]

My point was that its ok to not like them, everyone is entitled to an opinion.. but i just feel that when it comes to single cuts... the dislike often comes out stronger than in other threads about disliking a certain design.. Maybe thats because they are sooo different to other bass shapes, so the dislike is proportional to the wierdness of them lol.

[4000]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1274367' date='Jun 19 2011, 03:55 AM']You could also ask why those who don't use single cuts just can't accept some people do like them.[/quote]

Fixed. Works both ways doesn't it?

[JMT3781]

[quote name='4000' post='1274483' date='Jun 19 2011, 10:27 AM']Fixed. Works both ways doesn't it? [/quote]

[fretmeister]

The only single cut I like is the Status Streamline.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='1274386' date='Jun 19 2011, 07:22 AM']Ah, what a nice thread to come home to!

Well, I definitely think that singlecuts are a good thing. I don't think they add a massive amount tonally, but they look fantastic and a singlecut can still be an instrument that balances very well. See below:





It doesn't weight much because the body itself is relatively small, but the mass is balanced through the singlecut. I can quite happily say it's the best balancing headed bass I've ever played. It looks fantastic, it sounds fantastic and it feels fantastic.

is it the way forward? For me, it's probably the best way of making a boutique bass. This was the first singlecut I've owned and I didn't really know what to expect of it when I got it but it really has surpassed all expectations. If it were normal Harlot shape it wouldn't look as good, might not balance as well either. So I'll just leave it as it is.


There are a few companies who have got singlecuts very wrong, Warwick being one of them. They seem to have missed the point that in the Thumb, it's the small body and the wood choice that makes the bass. They've increased the body size and changed the wood choice to stop it weighing a tonne, and then lost the Thumb tone.

So, as we've assessed, singlecuts are great. That doesn't mean they'll change the world or the way basses are made. As we've seen, Status Graphite made a headless bass with active electronics, a graphite thru neck and a headless design in the 80's. I've just picked up a 1980's Series II today and it's one of the best basses I've ever played, easily the best Status. That bass was made in 1986, perhaps earlier - and yet ever since then, companies around the world have continued producing crap, like the Fender P bass for example. The fact is, bassists in general have pretty low standards of what they want from an instrument. They just want something they can plod the root note on, and P bass is that piece of crap with strings on it that will fit the bill.

To summarise, although there are better ways of doing things, there is no impetus to actually change the status quo as crap, boring basses continue to sell to ill-informed customers.[/quote]

Why do you always make a perfectly well laid out post giving good reasons for your arguement then make yourself look a tit by dissing the P-Bass Chris? "Boring basses continue to sell to ill informed customers?" I know for a fact every single cut owner I know also happily owns at least one example of what you always call boring MM,P & J etc so why are those people ill informed? Doddy has an amazing playing singlecut as he posted earlier and beleive me the guys playing aint too shabby yet his real love is what you call boring basses as far as I can tell. I know other top class single cut players that fit that description too in fact JMT may feel in a similar position too?

I could finish like you do Chris by rubbishing your choice of horid 80's tat but that would make the rest of my post look silly

[JMT3781]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1274496' date='Jun 19 2011, 10:37 AM']Why do you always make a perfectly well laid out post giving good reasons for your arguement then make yourself look a tit by dissing the P-Bass Chris? "Boring basses continue to sell to ill informed customers?" I know for a fact every single cut owner I know also happily owns at least one example of what you always call boring MM,P & J etc so why are those people ill informed? Doddy has an amazing playing singlecut as he posted earlier and beleive me the guys playing aint too shabby yet his real love is what you call boring basses as far as I can tell. I know other top class single cut players that fit that description too in fact JMT may feel in a similar position too?

I could finish like you do Chris by rubbishing your choice of horid 80's tat but that would make the rest of my post look silly [/quote]

Thats a great point pete. I love most basses lol, thats why i have a few. For me its not about what bass is right for which gig or sound or whatever, i just love them all. I accept, my p bass has a couple of sounds and i cant get the action as low as i want it.. but misinformed? not really, i knew that when i bought it lol! But it looks cool, and sounds like a P. Boring? no, its a bass! it makes deep noises that sounds ace and gets us chicks

To sum up. Basses are good, we love them because we can either enjoy playing them, or enjoy arguing about them on here! anyone doing anything nice for fathers day?

[chris_b]

Single cut basses are fine. They are not a fad or the future. They look good and if Anthony Jackson thinks the tone is improved then I'll believe him.

If you think that a change in bass design is "fixing something that isn't broken" then forget all basses designed after 1957.

[dc2009]

I've seen some Warwick slamming in here for the 'Thumb SC' and I'm not here to defend them as such, but I think you guys could have a little more thought.

If any of you have seen the other thread that's been here this past week, to do with how warwick's are now harder to get in the uk, you'd have seen a few music shop owners and warwick enthusiasts concluding that warwick are moving their german made basses back into the boutiquey, low production run stuff they used to, pushing it more back towards the high end, and leaving their rockbass series for the run of the mill stuff. IMO, if you're going to build a boutiquey, fairly expensive and high end bass today, I think you would start with a single cut bass. A good way to make one if you have an extensive back catalogue of basses? - modify an existing popular high end design! So I don't think Warwick have got it wrong at all.

As for this fad or future nonsense, I'll agree with whoever it was who said above, they're just an alternative choice, though I would imagine given their lack of popularity compared to things like Js and Ps (that's a statement of fact rather than a dig), I think they will remain the products of high end luthiers for many years, if Warwick want to provide a more well known avenue to the SC then fair play to them, they might sell one or two as well! As for bedroom players, who doesn't practice in their bedroom, or have a bass or few they never intend to take out of the house (usually because they're too nice to do so when a cheaper bass will more than suffice)?

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1274588' date='Jun 19 2011, 12:12 PM']if Warwick want to provide a more well known avenue to the SC then fair play to them, they might sell one or two as well![/quote]


Nothing wrong with that, the problem is they did a really bad job (imo) although I must admit the white version is much better than the wood finish

[Phantomnin]

[quote name='fretmeister' post='1274494' date='Jun 19 2011, 10:35 AM']The only single cut I like is the Status Streamline.[/quote]
Ditto x2

Although the streamline is so light to start with, it doesn't suffer from having an sc design. The neck on both of my fee incredibly stable but the graphite helps there a lot.

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1274496' date='Jun 19 2011, 10:37 AM']Why do you always make a perfectly well laid out post giving good reasons for your arguement then make yourself look a tit by dissing the P-Bass Chris?[/quote]

Despite being not agreeing with some of what Chris says, I really enjoy his posts, especially when he's being Fenderist. Chris, you may be into 80's tat, but your forthright opinions make BC a more fun place to hang out.

[ThomBassmonkey]

I could take or leave SCs, I find there's as many DC designs I don't like as SCs.

As for posts about this kind of thing being a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, I disagree that it's meant as a solution. If the 51 P was perfect for everyone and these are all designs that aren't needed, we'd have missed out on thousands of brilliant instruments. We'd never have got as far as the Jazz and P and would never have known because we were still on the 51s. If Leo felt the J and P were perfect, we'd never have MMs or G&Ls, both great brands.

There's nothing wrong with old designs of basses, but tastes progress, technology progresses and things can be done that weren't available 60 years ago (like Lightwaves). Just because they didn't exist, there's no reason they shouldn't now.

[AttitudeCastle]

Blame that guy if you don't like the Warwick thumb SC, he designed it with his friend Pretty good tone though, (even though i sense many won't care for what he plays haha)

Everytime i see that ACG it looks nicer and nicer, whats the top/face wood?

[Roland Rock]

Yes, Alan Cringean has a really good eye for design. The SC, being really top-heavy, is really hard to look balanced and elegant