I've got the best amp in the world! (but I never get to play it)

[Conan]

[quote name='silddx' post='1276521' date='Jun 20 2011, 11:22 PM']OK interesting, I think you're being way too paranoid [/quote]

Or have just been very unlucky in the past!

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='1276526' date='Jun 20 2011, 11:31 PM']Variety is the spice of life... Best to be prepared, though.[/quote]

Very sensible. Works for me!

[quote name='peteb' post='1276555' date='Jun 21 2011, 12:15 AM']I think that I must move in completely different musical circles to some people here![/quote]

Me too! But that is the great thing about this site. You get the full range from teenagers just buying their first bass to gnarly seasoned old pros and everything in between!

That said, I guess that the majority (silent or otherwise) are the weekend warriors who play small to medium sized pub gigs for their bread and butter, with the odd hotel, function or wedding thrown in.

YMMV, IME, IMO, etc.

[xilddx]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1276550' date='Jun 21 2011, 12:02 AM']PAs aren't rare, decent PAs are. Quite a few of the gigs we do only have vocal PAs, they struggle with the low frequencies and fuzz about if you put any more than just vocals through them (especially bass and kick drum). My band plays all over the place from large dedicated venues to festivals to small pubs. Our drummer is very loud, so if I were relying on a PA to compete with him, it'd have to consistently be up to a standard.

I'd say roughly 50% of our gigs I wouldn't like to chance not having an amp for. There's maybe 10% that I'm sure wouldn't handle my bass as well as everything else at gigging volume.

Having an amp on stage doesn't mean that the sound out front's going to be bad. Turn the amp down a bit (they do all have volume controls, even though you wouldn't think it from some people ) and it'll still give you the advantage of a dedicated bass monitor on stage but shouldn't interfere with the sound out front and the sound man will still have as much control.

While I understand the need to keep things compact (especially on public transport and I'm a recent convert to neodynium and class D heads myself), I always prefer having my own monitor that I can set up how I like (before sound check, obviously) and I have control over.

While I like the silent stage concept (everything through modelling soft/hardware, electric drums or in a sound booth and using IEMs, no monitoring at all on stage), I don't think it'd ever work for me, I like to feel the music as well as hear it.[/quote]

Ahh I get you. Fair enough. Things must be different out there

Even the small pub venues we play usually have full PA and quite often a house backline including a basic drum set (without breakables). This isn't unusual in London as far as I know. I always try to find out what the venue has beforehand anyway.

PAs are usually perfectly able to handle bass so I'm never concerned about my contributions not being heard. But I do understand the need for an amp and cab in the situations you describe

[ThomBassmonkey]

Yeah the few venues in London usually seem to be sorted for a decent (enough) PA. As stated though, we travel around a lot and there's pleny of places that don't even have a PA, never mind a decent one.

Looking at this thread, you seem to be the lucky minority. I do wish I could take the minimum gear to gigs, I cant see it ever happening though.

[TomKent]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1276649' date='Jun 21 2011, 08:37 AM']Looking at this thread, you seem to be the lucky minority. I do wish I could take the minimum gear to gigs, I cant see it ever happening though. [/quote]

I've been gigging a lot in town recently (more than usual). None of the engineers let me bring my own amp and demand I use their backline, but that's not going through the PA ever (apart from being DI'd on occasion).

I'm about to make a point of telling the engineers to go 'something' themselves soon and just bring my own amp because big tasty Krampera > 40watt Laney.

[lojo]

I recently forgot to turn my amp back off standby for the first song of the second set, it was DI'd from a box rather than the amp, so I had sound out front and in the monitors, so it confused me for a minute, but I did then get that it could be done away with in some situations, but I do enjoy the punch from the cab behind

But I could not get away with it at every gig, and would not be ready to yet either, I feel I need an amp

Just had another shift around, and have lost a few more kg of what will be my one cab 8ohm set up (for pubs, parties and church)

[73Jazz]

I had a lightweight Rig with a Powersoft Digimod 1500W Poweramp and an Ampeg Pre..i think they were both under 6-8kg together.
I also had a 4x10 Neo lightweight cab with 23kg. I also had a Sansamp, EBS Microbass2, GP Lightstone etc.
That was workable.

Now i play a Sunn 300T all tube amp and 2x15 Sunn Cabs.
I only play for having fun. If it is too big, or boosting my ego, if it is overamped for gigs or too heavy.
I don´t care, the only reason i use this one, is the fun it makes to hear this combination..the godly tone.
Everything else doesn`t matter for me.

The audience still believes i play guitar or be to stupid to play 6 strings on a guitar.
But i hear the difference and i am the most important person i am interested in.
I bought my car according to my rig
I have no time for compromises.

Edited June 21, 2011 by 73Jazz

[99ster]

[quote name='73Jazz' post='1276756' date='Jun 21 2011, 10:18 AM']I had a lightweight Rig with a Powersoft Digimod 1500W Poweramp and an Ampeg Pre..i think they were both under 6-8kg together.
I also had a 4x10 Neo lightweight cab with 23kg. I also had a Sansamp, EBS Microbass2, GP Lightstone etc.
That was workable.

Now i play a Sunn 300T all tube amp and 2x15 Sunn Cabs.
I only play for having fun. If it is too big, or boosting my ego, if it is overamped for gigs or too heavy.
I don´t care, the only reason i use this one, is the fun it makes to hear this combination..the godly tone.
Everything else doesn`t matter for me.

The audience still believes i play guitar or be to stupid to play 6 strings on a guitar.
But i hear the difference and i am the most important person i am interested in.
I bought my car according to my rig
I have no time for compromises.[/quote]


I like your style...

[73Jazz]

[quote name='99ster' post='1276761' date='Jun 21 2011, 11:23 AM']I like your style...
[/quote]




Your words are an honour for me, thank you

[markstuk]

+1

I have a lightweight (RH450/Barefaced S12T) rig which can go as loud or as quiet as I'm ever going to need.. OK, it would be a pain on public transport, but there is no public tranport where I live that goes anywhere useful at a sensible frequency...


[quote name='4000' post='1276622' date='Jun 21 2011, 07:43 AM']+1. I'd love to turn up at a gig with just a POD or something but at the many of the local gigs I've done over the years it's vocal PA only, sometimes with no monitors at all. When I played in London a lot (many years ago) it was a large PA for everything...[/quote]

[JTUK]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1276649' date='Jun 21 2011, 08:37 AM']Yeah the few venues in London usually seem to be sorted for a decent (enough) PA. As stated though, we travel around a lot and there's pleny of places that don't even have a PA, never mind a decent one.

Looking at this thread, you seem to be the lucky minority. I do wish I could take the minimum gear to gigs, I cant see it ever happening though. [/quote]


Admittedly I haven't done these free town gigs for quite some while... but I seem to recall they ALL struggled for bass monitors. = The only one that didn't..off the top of my head, was The Mean Fiddler which had Turbosound as a House P.A.
The others, like the Putney/South River gigs... had hired-in sound and the engr was generally good, but bass through the monitors was not the norm as the monitors wouldn't be good enough.

I agree that things have moved on and you can get a really big sound out of hats and stand rigs..but the monitors aren't generally at the same level. You know you'll do ok if the sage has sidefills but I take my rig so I can hear myself and the rest of the band has that chance.
That way, I don't have to flay the stage monitoring if it is slightly lacking. We are asked to provide a tech rider..you try getting one back from the P.A crew

For some of our outdoor gigs this year... we are going to have to take quite a bit of our own kit..just in case. But NO-ONE has come back to me when I ask what we can expect. That might mis-communication between the organisers and the P.A hire..but I still never get it..which amounts to the same thing..hit and miss..!! potentially.

I wouldn't spoil a gig for the sake of not loading my car..just as I would do that without changing strings..for example...!!

But then, I do have the choice

[charic]

I plan to DI and use my amp at the same time.

Our "interesting" setup is going to be far to complex for the standard sound engineer to notice me switching a few cables around

[xilddx]

Does anyone have ONLY bass in their monitor?

I just have a decent band mix.

[ThomBassmonkey]

Generally (where possible) I have mostly vocals, keys, flute and kick through my monitor. Then some guitar and a little bit of bass to reinforce the amps and so that I can move about without losing too much of me.

I find if I'm listening to a "good" mix (i.e. what you'd expect from a CD recording rather than a stage mix), I don't feel the bass and kick drum as well, it's not usually a problem but if I can have that extra beef from them I can relax much more and find it a lot easier to put on a show rather than concentrating on what I'm playing. Our drummer has a cannon of a kick (and snare and isn't afraid to beat the hell out of them) and I use a full stack, so if we're using our own gear (guitarist always uses his own amp), I [b]know[/b] that the sound is going to be good on stage.

[Marvin]

[quote name='silddx' post='1276845' date='Jun 21 2011, 11:32 AM']Does anyone have ONLY bass in their monitor?

I just have a decent band mix.[/quote]
Only vocals. The monitor I was using the other week would get blown apart if you stuck the bass through it. Guitarist said we needed them. Completely pointless tbh, I was stood close enough to the singer I could hear her perfectly well, my monitor was turned off for most of the gig.

Come to North Devon Nige . What is a house PA? What is public transport? Most bands, if not all around here lug everything around with them.

If I could get away with it I would ditch the amp. But we practice in a room with no amps supplied (it's a room in a school, just a room), and I need it for gigs

Such is life.

[dc2009]

[quote name='silddx' post='1276845' date='Jun 21 2011, 11:32 AM']Does anyone have ONLY bass in their monitor?

I just have a decent band mix.[/quote]
Ideally I have none of me in the wedge monitor, and put the bass through an amp separately as my on stage monitor.
I like to have my backing vocals up fairly high in the monitor.

The other issue with house PAs and monitors is I find they struggle with the 5th string sometimes. These days I'm only in standard tuning, so a B, but I used to go as low as Ab! Even with a B, I find you lose a lot. IMO I think many PA systems in pubs etc where I am likely to play is old and a bit useless, but given 5ers are often the norm these days, it's a shame more places can't handle them adequately!

[normontour]

If your rig sounds that good get it mic'd up. Im still surprised few bassists do this. You spend loads of money on gear and then your bass just gets di'd anyway through, unless you carry your own, some of the cheapest di's money can buy. I worked with a few bands where we mic'd up as well as di'd and it always sounded amazing.

I would NEVER play just through monitors as a bassist because 99% of monitors arent set up for bass and it sounds terrible cranking them up.

You need a rig at a big venue for back of stage monitors as the inhouse monitors at the front dont always carry. And you need a rig at small pubs etc and everything inbetween cause 99% of venues either have a sh*t pa, a sh*t sound engineer or both.

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='silddx' post='1276845' date='Jun 21 2011, 11:32 AM']Does anyone have ONLY bass in their monitor?

I just have a decent band mix.[/quote]

A monitor? What's that?

[JTUK]

[quote name='silddx' post='1276845' date='Jun 21 2011, 11:32 AM']Does anyone have ONLY bass in their monitor?

I just have a decent band mix.[/quote]


No... I have big bass and drums and a bleed for the rest.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='TomKent' post='1276655' date='Jun 21 2011, 08:55 AM']I've been gigging a lot in town recently (more than usual). None of the engineers let me bring my own amp and demand I use their backline, but that's not going through the PA ever (apart from being DI'd on occasion).

I'm about to make a point of telling the engineers to go 'something' themselves soon and just bring my own amp because big tasty Krampera > 40watt Laney.[/quote]

That's the story at the venues i've played in London. They want you to use their sh*t gear which just can't deliver on the bass front. I always took my full rig and used it.

[Conan]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1279352' date='Jun 23 2011, 08:45 AM']I have big bass and drums and a bleed for the rest.[/quote]

Me too (if memory serves - it's been a while since I did a gig with full PA support and monitors!).

Sometimes I like some prominent vocals too if I'm doing backing vocals. I like to have some bass so I can compare the "out front" sound with my own backline monitoring.

[dan670844]

[quote name='silddx' post='1275614' date='Jun 20 2011, 10:18 AM']Can't really see the point of bass amps and cabs, they are a pain in the arse getting them to gigs and in and out the van, people want to borrow them at gigs, rehearsal rooms usually provide backline anyway, they are almost never miced on stage, and they are very expensive.[/quote]


I agree In my fair to middling world these days I hardly ever use any backline unless it's provided, very most I use a 2x10 with floor monitors. Most of the time I use a Sansamp and even an old funkilicous SMX preamp as these two cover most of what I do from rock to funk. Things are changing rapidly with noise. Even in most clubs and pubs with house sound, you only need a diddly combo, a lot of places I play in london with the 'project' band everything is provided, i just bring my bass. I think low power lightweight is probably the way forward, if people want the valve sound the future is things like the Ashdown LB30 (Yes I will get round to buying one!!), EBS, Brutus etc Its no hardship for the soundman to mic your cab and DI to get the colour. Just gotta talk to them. It amazes me though when I still see metal bands in pubs with massive stacks of marshall valve power, its more about image than anything else, they are probably running at 1 or 2 on the dial, pointless when they go up to 11.........

[JTUK]

[quote name='Conan' post='1279389' date='Jun 23 2011, 09:37 AM']Me too (if memory serves - it's been a while since I did a gig with full PA support and monitors!).

Sometimes I like some prominent vocals too if I'm doing backing vocals. I like to have some bass so I can compare the "out front" sound with my own backline monitoring.[/quote]


If a P.A can't provide a few monitor mixes with the ability to put everything through it....I don't regard it a proper set-up.

[Happy Jack]

A small sample:

My current band has been together for two years now, playing in and around West London, and I've just totted up the venues we've played. Turns out to be 17 of them (excluding glorified jam sessions and the like), most of them at bog-standard music pubs, the sort of places that put a board out saying "[i]Live Bands Every Saturday[/i]" or whatever.

I can remember three of them that offered a kit, and one (yup - just ONE) that offered a bass amp. It was crap.

Five of them supplied a more-or-less decent PA which I could have run my bass through as recommended by silldx, three of them had a sound engineer - or a music student earning £20 for claiming to be a sound engineer, and at one venue (The Fiddler's Elbow) I trusted the sound engineer enough that I did let him take a feed from my amp. Still used my rig, though.

I've had a BDDI or similar for the whole period, so the no-rig option has always been there for me. Had I tried to use it, though, my band would (rightly) have sacked me by July 2009.

No matter how well I danced while playing.

[Len_derby]

Thanks for the reality check Happy Jack. Your story is pretty similar to mine here out in the provinces. My guess is that the majority of gigging Basschaters will be in a similar boat.
Some personal friends of mine, the David Gibb Band, are making their Glastonbury debut today. I'm very keen to ask them lots about it, but the sound set-up in particular.

[Prime_BASS]

Id feel comfortable turning up with something smaller than the S12T, as I used to role with just a Barefaced midget and it was fine for on stage monitoring, but not loyd enough or bassy enough for rehearsals or the odd gig that aloud my rig to be more than a monitor.