xilddx Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='dc2009' post='1276943' date='Jun 21 2011, 12:33 PM']Yeah there are many parties at fault here. Also, I could only hear the guitar in Don't Stop Believing, looked like she was air playing before then, and then in Don't Stop Believing, it seemed like she was feckin awful to boot? As for the bass, I agree with Silddx, if she did spot check the tuning at the start, she'd have known it was out. [b]To my ears some strings sounded more out than others,[/b] if that's the case, avoid the worst strings, change how you're playing (I think we've all had to do that mid song, especially if you break one string). Sound tech should've cut her entire channel and told her to go get a new bass IMO. She was rocking out and in front of the monitors at some point, don't go and stand there if you can't hear yourself already. If you can't hear yourself, surely you point at your bass and point up to the sound guy, who puts your level up, or go and make use of that wall of ampeg behind you! And at the end of the day, tight for time or not, it takes 30s to tune a bass if you have a decent tuner, max. Well worth spending the time on, any tour manager/roadie should know that. OT but it's a lovely setting for a show![/quote] When I was listening to it I thought it was the A that was out of whack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc2009 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='silddx' post='1276948' date='Jun 21 2011, 12:35 PM']When I was listening to it I thought it was the A that was out of whack.[/quote] It was the A or D to me, not sure which. Whenever she went for a higher note it made me cringe though, which means you can rearrange how you're playing, not easy to do, but a must for any performer, especially a professional. I got the impression none of the strings were perfect, but she might have got away with playing it elsewhere, I mean playing it in tune an octave up would've been preferable IMO (some pros might even have an octave pedal to whack it back down too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbayne Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I played a gig once where the guitarist was so out of tune, I had to turn the bass right down and grin and bear it! Funny thing was, he didnt even think it was him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc2009 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='Hobbayne' post='1276954' date='Jun 21 2011, 12:40 PM']I played a gig once where the guitarist was so out of tune, I had to turn the bass right down and grin and bear it! Funny thing was, he didnt even think it was him! [/quote] Some guitards do that. My guitards favourite axe is a hunk of junk IMO and likes to detune itself. Thing is, he sings to the note produced by his guitar. Last practice that this occured at he looked at me as if I was out of tune, we stopped the song and quickly resolved that my Warwick, run through a digital tuner, was bang on and the guitar was distinctly not. Obviously, stopping mid song is not really an option for live performances, I've only ever seen it done once by a pro-band, and only done it once on stage myself, both for the same reason - bass drum pedal detaching from the bass drum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul h Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='BottomE' post='1276946' date='Jun 21 2011, 12:34 PM']+1 inexcusable. Tune your own bass and KNOW that you are in tune. At this level unforgivable.[/quote] How many people at this level tune their own basses? Surely they would have techs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc2009 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='paul h' post='1276957' date='Jun 21 2011, 12:44 PM']How many people at this level tune their own basses? Surely they would have techs?[/quote] Not many tune it themselves, though the majority I would say check it before they go on/after the first song. IMO you should be warming up for 5-15 minutes before you go on stage normally (I know they were messed about with timings here), but very few players seem to find that necessary - part of that would include checking the tuning. But yes, any tech that hands a musician an out of tune instrument to go on stage with should be fired, no questions asked. What then happened during the show was partly her fault, partly the fault of the engineer IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='paul h' post='1276957' date='Jun 21 2011, 12:44 PM']How many people at this level tune their own basses? Surely they would have techs?[/quote] Yes, they have techs - but they aint the ones playing the guitars on stage. At this level you want to be sure you're in tune don't you? Tune your own instruments or have some kind of tuner running whilst playing. I manage to do this playing at the Dog and Duck for 30 punters. Amazingly i can check my tuning whilst playing. Ingenious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestar Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I feel for her. This has happened to me at a sunny outside gig in front of a huge crowd. I couldn't see the LEDs on my regular tuner, there was no time to soundcheck, quickly swapped to my spare LCD tuner that had been rattling around in my toolbox and retuned thinking that was lucky I was a fairly out, must be the heat. Not realising that my tuner was knocked off 440hz regular tuning somehow and started the first song at a really odd pitch completely different to everyone else so I couldn't even transpose on the fly. It was my worst on stage moment. I just stopped playing and luckily I had the option to swap to another bass, missing a big chunk of the song. I'm still getting the pee taken 2 years on by my guitard and drummer ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='BottomE' post='1276966' date='Jun 21 2011, 12:51 PM']Yes, they have techs - but they aint the ones playing the guitars on stage. At this level you want to be sure you're in tune don't you? Tune your own instruments or have some kind of tuner running whilst playing. I manage to do this playing at the Dog and Duck for 30 punters. Amazingly i can check my tuning whilst playing. Ingenious.[/quote] Of course, it's the same for her as it is for you at the Twat & Buttplug. Have you never had some sh*t happen to you or another band member on stage? Have you always given a perfect performance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='silddx' post='1276970' date='Jun 21 2011, 12:56 PM'] Of course, it's the same for her as it is for you at the Twat & Buttplug. Have you never had some sh*t happen to you or another band member on stage? Have you always given a perfect performance?[/quote] No, its not the same and thats my point. Me being out of tune might not have such an impact at the Twat and Buttplug. I am not playing to thousands, not that its about the numbers. We are talking about being in tune. Quite an important thing in a band situation for some of us. Its not like a hardware failure or amp or string snapping. Its being in tune. I bet she checks next time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMT3781 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 ouch!!!! such a shame, i thought the arrangement of Crazy sounded excellent.. would love to hear it properly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markstuk Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 My sides have split from laughing my a**e off :-) [quote name='JMT3781' post='1276977' date='Jun 21 2011, 01:02 PM']ouch!!!! such a shame, i thought the arrangement of Crazy sounded excellent.. would love to hear it properly![/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='markstuk' post='1276982' date='Jun 21 2011, 01:08 PM']My sides have split from laughing my a**e off :-)[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMT3781 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='markstuk' post='1276982' date='Jun 21 2011, 01:08 PM']My sides have split from laughing my a**e off :-)[/quote] lol, there was no sarcasm there, i meant if the bass was in tune, and the levels all correct, and the performers were all comfortable, there was great arrangement going on with the samples and other interesting parts that aren't on the record... Being a bit of an optimist i do like to see the good in things! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='BottomE' post='1276976' date='Jun 21 2011, 01:02 PM']No, its not the same and thats my point. Me being out of tune might not have such an impact at the Twat and Buttplug. I am not playing to thousands, not that its about the numbers. We are talking about being in tune. Quite an important thing in a band situation for some of us. Its not like a hardware failure or amp or string snapping. Its being in tune. I bet she checks next time...[/quote] I knew you would say something like this. I think she's explained the situation well enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I shan't show this to the guitarist in the band I'm in. He'll think he's been let off the hook for not tuning his guitar properly for a tune midway through the first set. He's only got to tap a pedal FFS and it does it for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='JMT3781' post='1276990' date='Jun 21 2011, 01:12 PM']lol, there was no sarcasm there, i meant if the bass was in tune, and the levels all correct, and the performers were all comfortable, there was great arrangement going on with the samples and other interesting parts that aren't on the record... Being a bit of an optimist i do like to see the good in things![/quote] We mean the reference to Crazy. Were you being serious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markstuk Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 It was a more general comment, but clearly it worked in another sense I was not aware of Apologies if I've offended you in any way :-) [quote name='JMT3781' post='1276990' date='Jun 21 2011, 01:12 PM']lol, there was no sarcasm there, i meant if the bass was in tune, and the levels all correct, and the performers were all comfortable, there was great arrangement going on with the samples and other interesting parts that aren't on the record... Being a bit of an optimist i do like to see the good in things![/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisd24 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 At 3:07 im sure he turns to her and says "that sh*t sounds terrible"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveK Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='silddx' post='1276970' date='Jun 21 2011, 12:56 PM']Have you never had some sh*t happen to you or another band member on stage? Have you always given a perfect performance?[/quote] Of course, sh*t happens - There are some things out of your control...tuning shouldn't be one of them. I have a great tech who I absolutely trust, who tunes immediately before I go on stage...doesn't stop me briefly stepping on my tuner before starting though. I've done hundreds of open air gigs, some where the sun is shining directly on to the stage - LEDs can be a problem, but it is get-roundable. Bottom line: People have paid good money to see/hear a show...they were short changed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='silddx' post='1276991' date='Jun 21 2011, 01:12 PM'] I knew you would say something like this.[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='SteveK' post='1277002' date='Jun 21 2011, 01:17 PM'][b]Of course, sh*t happens - There are some things out of your control...tuning shouldn't be one of them.[/b]I have a great tech who I absolutely trust, who tunes immediately before I go on stage...doesn't stop me briefly stepping on my tuner before starting though. I've done hundreds of open air gigs, some where the sun is shining directly on to the stage - LEDs can be a problem, but it is get-roundable. Bottom line: People have paid good money to see/hear a show...they were short changed![/quote] My guess is that this sh*t happens only once in a blue moon for her. It happened to Jake fer chrissakes, and he's an amazing professional player and educator who's played in bands with Zappa's ex band members. All this sh*t can happen to all of us at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverBlackman Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Im putting my CV together now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMT3781 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='markstuk' post='1276999' date='Jun 21 2011, 01:15 PM']It was a more general comment, but clearly it worked in another sense I was not aware of Apologies if I've offended you in any way :-)[/quote] no not at all i understand now lol... but i think it shows that there is enormous difference in a good arrangement and a good performance, and the importance in getting both right lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 That's just shocking. I've got to point out a couple of things.....First of all,you can clearly see her tune up in between 'Crazy' and ' f*** You'-that obviously didn't work. Secondly,if she couldn't hear what was happening why was she standing [i]in front[/i] of the monitors for a large part of the song? Finally,she claims to not be able to see her tuner.....her pedal board is clearly in the shade of the monitor and will be easier to see than if it was out in the open. As that was the last song,I have to wonder if it was that bad throughout the rest of the set- in which case she should have heard it long before-or if it all happened during her pre song 'tune up'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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