Downgrading from Ashdown Rig

[kedo]

Can any of you experienced guys (or girls) out there help an experienced player, inexperienced in the world of gear, who played extensively in the 60s when bass gear was big? I have Ashdown Neo 410T and 415T cabinets with an ABM EVOiii amp. I bought it, as in the '60s, no one played with anything less than 18inch speakers. Admittedly the amps were small, usually about 30watts but you still got a deep, loud sound, fashionable in the days before slapping etc. I play in all kinds of venues sometimes fairly large and seldom use DI. We play all kinds of music from R and B to fairly modern (but I still dont slap). As I am now in my sixties and without roadies any more, I struggle to move the stuff! Can anyone advise whether or not a smaller, lighter rig or combo would handle my needs? I use a Fender 1964 NOS limited edition Jazz bass.

Jack (Kedo)

[xgsjx]

Have a look at some of the lightweight gear available. Something like a markbass or genzbenz head thru a couple of light bergantino or barefaced cabs.
Would be more of an upgrade than a downgrade tho.

I use a markbass 2x10 combo & it suits my needs perfectly & if I did need to shift more air, I'd add another 2x10 (tho I think it'd need to be a pretty big venue with no PA support for that).

Edited June 26, 2011 by xgsjx

[cycrowave]

sounds like the orange terror bass head would suit your needs pretty well

[url="http://www.dv247.com/guitars/orange-terror-bass-500-hybrid-bass-guitar-amp--61880"]http://www.dv247.com/guitars/orange-terror...itar-amp--61880[/url]

its lightweight and small and oozes vintage charm, theres plenty of TB info on basschat just do a quick search

[Monckyman]

The new Ampeg PF500 is getting a lot of love at the mo, and is very good value.
[url="http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?hl=en&xhr=t&q=ampeg+pf+500&cp=8&pq=ampeg+pg500&nord=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&ion=1&biw=1024&bih=485&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=8251370002985594953&sa=X&ei=BX0HTv3CM8-r8AP9gqC4DQ&sqi=2&ved=0CCoQ8wIwAQ"][color="#FF0000"]Ampeg PF 500[/color][/url]
MM

[ThomBassmonkey]

Gallien Krueger, Markbass, Genz Benz to name a few.

I can only really make suggestions re the GK, but I use a MB Fusion and two NEO212s in my lightweight rig and never struggle with a loud rock band.

[DirkThrust]

I'd keep the head and change the cabs. Swapping the head for another will cost you a lot and not save you a lot of weight.

If you like a big fat traditional bass sound nothing does it better then the Ashdown ABM and you may spend a long time auditioning micro heads to find one that sounds as good.

As for cabs I'd give Barefaced a try first if lightweight is your first priority. I used a Compact with an ABM500 and it sounded fab. If you are looking for stack type volumes then maybe a Compact + Midget or a Super 12. Both those combinations would sound monstrous.

If 10s are your thing then a pair of Neo 2x10s from Bergantino, Markbass or Genz are very light if you can still get Neo drivered cabs within your budget.

Edited June 26, 2011 by AndyMartin

[kedo]

[quote name='AndyMartin' post='1283279' date='Jun 26 2011, 07:51 PM']I'd keep the head and change the cabs. Swapping the head for another will cost you a lot and not save you a lot of weight.

If you like a big fat traditional bass sound nothing does it better then the Ashdown ABM and you may spend a long time auditioning micro heads to find one that sounds as good.

As for cabs I'd give Barefaced a try first if lightweight is your first priority. I used a Compact with an ABM500 and it sounded fab. If you are looking for stack type volumes then maybe a Compact + Midget or a Super 12. Both those combinations would sound monstrous.

If 10s are your thing then a pair of Neo 2x10s from Bergantino, Markbass or Genz are very light if you can still get Neo drivered cabs within your budget.[/quote]
Thanks Andy

I must admit, I am uncertain about parting with the Evo III head as it has such a good reputation and as you say doesn't contribute that much to overall weight. However, I have had trouble dialling-in a sound that I like. I was listening to Paul Simon's bass player on TV tonight (Glastonbury) Bakithi Kumalo, and heard my ideal bass sound, but all I can get from the Ashdown is an indestinct bass boom with a percussive top (probably from my finger nails). It may be the cabinets which have three position horn switches, but more likely, I am not using the amp properly. I don't know whether to use the guitar or amp EQ or a combination of both, and don't have much luck with compression. Also there is the valve pre-amp option. Also from years of playing, I am a bit deaf (warning to all you youngsters out there). Any advice.

Jack

[kedo]

[quote name='xgsjx' post='1283211' date='Jun 26 2011, 06:50 PM']Have a look at some of the lightweight gear available. Something like a markbass or genzbenz head thru a couple of light bergantino or barefaced cabs.
Would be more of an upgrade than a downgrade tho.

I use a markbass 2x10 combo & it suits my needs perfectly & if I did need to shift more air, I'd add another 2x10 (tho I think it'd need to be a pretty big venue with no PA support for that).[/quote]

Thanks xgsjx.

I was recommended the Markbass CMD 102p which is I think, the one you use, by Barry at the Bass Centre in Birmingham who reckoned it could compete with anything, even on a large venue. The addition of another cabinet would cover you for the really big gigs.

Thanks again,

Jack

[kedo]

[quote name='cycrowave' post='1283228' date='Jun 26 2011, 07:03 PM']sounds like the orange terror bass head would suit your needs pretty well

[url="http://www.dv247.com/guitars/orange-terror-bass-500-hybrid-bass-guitar-amp--61880"]http://www.dv247.com/guitars/orange-terror...itar-amp--61880[/url]

its lightweight and small and oozes vintage charm, theres plenty of TB info on basschat just do a quick search[/quote]

Thanks cycrowave.

I noticed one for sale on the Forum today.

Jack

[kedo]

[quote name='Monckyman' post='1283265' date='Jun 26 2011, 07:41 PM']The new Ampeg PF500 is getting a lot of love at the mo, and is very good value.
[url="http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?hl=en&xhr=t&q=ampeg+pf+500&cp=8&pq=ampeg+pg500&nord=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&ion=1&biw=1024&bih=485&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=8251370002985594953&sa=X&ei=BX0HTv3CM8-r8AP9gqC4DQ&sqi=2&ved=0CCoQ8wIwAQ"][color="#FF0000"]Ampeg PF 500[/color][/url]
MM[/quote]

Thanks Monckeyman,

I'll take a look at that.

Jack

[xgsjx]

It's the CMD-102p that I have & it is a seriously loud combo for just a 2x10. I've went from a Trace Elliott 4x10 to it & it blows the hell out of anything the TE could do.
Get a try on one if you can & see if it's got the sounds you want. I used to play in a 4 piece rock band with 2 noisy guitarists & a shed builder & now play in a folk/country/jazz band & also planing on starting a DnB/Dubstep band & it copes with whatever bass sounds I'm after, from no effects to a bit of overdrive & to filtered sounds.

Get in a shop that has a few bits of lightweight kit & try combo's & separates, see what fits your needs.

[Lozz196]

[quote name='Monckyman' post='1283265' date='Jun 26 2011, 07:41 PM']The new Ampeg PF500 is getting a lot of love at the mo, and is very good value.
[url="http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?hl=en&xhr=t&q=ampeg+pf+500&cp=8&pq=ampeg+pg500&nord=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&ion=1&biw=1024&bih=485&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=8251370002985594953&sa=X&ei=BX0HTv3CM8-r8AP9gqC4DQ&sqi=2&ved=0CCoQ8wIwAQ"][color="#FF0000"]Ampeg PF 500[/color][/url]
MM[/quote]
+1 - I love mine, great Ampeg sound, not very much money.

I`ve also had the Orange Terror, and a TC Electronics Classic 450, both great amps too.

And, whenever I`ve been to a pub gig, and the bassist has sounded great, usually they have had a Markbass combo/head & tiny cab.

Though there are so many that are great little amps out there at the moment, get otu there and try as many as possible, let your ears decide.

And cab-wise, many Basschatters rave about the Barefaced Cabs.

[kedo]

[quote name='xgsjx' post='1283390' date='Jun 26 2011, 09:23 PM']It's the CMD-102p that I have & it is a seriously loud combo for just a 2x10. I've went from a Trace Elliott 4x10 to it & it blows the hell out of anything the TE could do.
Get a try on one if you can & see if it's got the sounds you want. I used to play in a 4 piece rock band with 2 noisy guitarists & a shed builder & now play in a folk/country/jazz band & also planing on starting a DnB/Dubstep band & it copes with whatever bass sounds I'm after, from no effects to a bit of overdrive & to filtered sounds.

Get in a shop that has a few bits of lightweight kit & try combo's & separates, see what fits your needs.[/quote]

I am seriously tempted by the Markbass. The Ashdown rig looks like a two storey house and gives me a headache.

Jack

[kedo]

[quote name='Lozz196' post='1283394' date='Jun 26 2011, 09:25 PM']+1 - I love mine, great Ampeg sound, not very much money.

I`ve also had the Orange Terror, and a TC Electronics Classic 450, both great amps too.

And, whenever I`ve been to a pub gig, and the bassist has sounded great, usually they have had a Markbass combo/head & tiny cab.

Though there are so many that are great little amps out there at the moment, get otu there and try as many as possible, let your ears decide.

And cab-wise, many Basschatters rave about the Barefaced Cabs.[/quote]

Thanks Lozz196.

I think I have enough positive responses for me to take a trip and try a Markbass.

Jack

[DirkThrust]

[quote name='kedo' post='1283362' date='Jun 26 2011, 09:06 PM']Thanks Andy

I must admit, I am uncertain about parting with the Evo III head as it has such a good reputation and as you say doesn't contribute that much to overall weight. However, I have had trouble dialling-in a sound that I like. I was listening to Paul Simon's bass player on TV tonight (Glastonbury) Bakithi Kumalo, and heard my ideal bass sound, but all I can get from the Ashdown is an indestinct bass boom with a percussive top (probably from my finger nails). It may be the cabinets which have three position horn switches, but more likely, I am not using the amp properly. I don't know whether to use the guitar or amp EQ or a combination of both, and don't have much luck with compression. Also there is the valve pre-amp option. Also from years of playing, I am a bit deaf (warning to all you youngsters out there). Any advice.

Jack[/quote]

I'm not familiar with the 415T. Is that a 4x15? Surely not

I used to use a mixture of 10s and 15s with my ABM head and have to say I could never get a sound I liked consistently. The speaker experts will tell you that mixing different sized speakers will give very inconsistent results and my experience has borne that out.

My sound improved dramatically when I changed to Barefaced and Schroeder cabs with the ABM. That's why I suggest changing the cabs first.

Edited June 27, 2011 by AndyMartin

[nottswarwick]

I've owned a 102p and whilst very good, it's nowhere near as full sounding as my 410. With an extension cab it's another story.

Get a barefaced super12. Very very impressive cab. I've done PA for a band where the bassist had one with a mb littlemark3, and trust me it was awesome in terms of tone, clarity and volume.

[kedo]

[quote name='AndyMartin' post='1283411' date='Jun 26 2011, 09:41 PM']I'm not familiar with the 415T. Is that a 4x15? Surely not

I used to use a mixture of 10s and 15s with my ABM head and have to say I could never get a sound I liked consistently. The speaker experts will tell you that mixing different sized speakers will give very inconsistent results and my experience bore that out.

My sound improved dramatically when I changed to Barefaced and Schroeder cabs with the ABM. That's why I suggest changing the cabs first.[/quote]
Thanks for that Andy. Good advice.

Well noticed. Should have been 115T.

Jack

[kedo]

[quote name='nottswarwick' post='1283451' date='Jun 26 2011, 10:35 PM']I've owned a 102p and whilst very good, it's nowhere near as full sounding as my 410. With an extension cab it's another story.

Get a barefaced super12. Very very impressive cab. I've done PA for a band where the bassist had one with a mb littlemark3, and trust me it was awesome in terms of tone, clarity and volume.[/quote]
Thanks for that. I'm beginning to get the idea.

Jack

[DirkThrust]

As an experiment I'd suggest that on your next gig you just use the 4x10 and see what difference that makes to your sound. You might be pleasantly surprised

OTOH you may decide you still don't like tha Ashdown

[Bigwan]

Having made the change from an Ashdown ABM recently I'd agree that an Orange Terror Bass is a good move. Cabs to taste, but if I was looking again I'd also be checking at Barefaced's Compact and Super 12

[largo]

I moved from an Ashdown ABM 500 II amp to the Markbass SA450 (like to have the mid control if I need it) and it's a great sounding amp, very light and importantly for me very reliable. However. I still hanker after that Ashdown sound and would suggest you try to change the cabs first. I've got the Barefaced Compact and it's an amazing sounding cab and very light. However, if your swapping from 2 large cabs I'd go with the Super Twelve option.

[molan]

[quote name='kedo' post='1283362' date='Jun 26 2011, 09:06 PM']all I can get from the Ashdown is an indestinct bass boom.[/quote]

That'll be the 'classic' Ashdown sound then

I realise I'll probably get shouted at for this but 'indistinct' is exactly how I'd describe the sound of a lot of full Ashdown rigs I've heard. Some of these have sounded fine solo'd but just seem to turn to mush when the full band kicks in.

In my experience quite a few rehearsal studios seem to have these as house amps and I've always struggled to get a decent sound out of them (unlike Trace who used to be the stock house amps in the past). When confronted with one I always try to bypass the pre-amp and use my little Sadowsky pre straight into the power section. Even then the cabs often sound pretty wooly.

I've only ever gigged with one once and swore never to use one live again.

There are so many options out there it's bewildering. The new Aguilar Tone Hammer is supposed to be great, as are the Genz Streamliners if you want a warmer valvey tone.

One advantage to MarkBass is that they are pretty easy to sell on if you don't like them:)

I'd definitely look here at the classifieds and see what's available

[kedo]

[quote name='largo' post='1283720' date='Jun 27 2011, 09:20 AM']I moved from an Ashdown ABM 500 II amp to the Markbass SA450 (like to have the mid control if I need it) and it's a great sounding amp, very light and importantly for me very reliable. However. I still hanker after that Ashdown sound and would suggest you try to change the cabs first. I've got the Barefaced Compact and it's an amazing sounding cab and very light. However, if your swapping from 2 large cabs I'd go with the Super Twelve option.[/quote]
That's consistent with a lot of advice I've been receiving. I have already been in touch with Barefaced about delivery etc but need to sell my (almost new) Ashdown cabinets first, so the time delay would be a problem.

Thanks,

Jack

[kedo]

[quote name='molan' post='1283930' date='Jun 27 2011, 12:08 PM']That'll be the 'classic' Ashdown sound then

I realise I'll probably get shouted at for this but 'indistinct' is exactly how I'd describe the sound of a lot of full Ashdown rigs I've heard. Some of these have sounded fine solo'd but just seem to turn to mush when the full band kicks in.

In my experience quite a few rehearsal studios seem to have these as house amps and I've always struggled to get a decent sound out of them (unlike Trace who used to be the stock house amps in the past). When confronted with one I always try to bypass the pre-amp and use my little Sadowsky pre straight into the power section. Even then the cabs often sound pretty wooly.

I've only ever gigged with one once and swore never to use one live again.

There are so many options out there it's bewildering. The new Aguilar Tone Hammer is supposed to be great, as are the Genz Streamliners if you want a warmer valvey tone.

One advantage to MarkBass is that they are pretty easy to sell on if you don't like them:)

I'd definitely look here at the classifieds and see what's available [/quote]
Thanks Molan.

Interesting comments about the Ashdown cabs. Were the ones you used the Neo type with Neodymium speakers?

Thanks

Jack

[alanbass1]

As an old SVT/8x10 person I was concerned about going to the newer smaller gear. However, after a little trial and error I have settled on a pair of Bergantino 1x12 cabs (HT112ER & EX112ER) and a TC Electronics RH450 head. Combination really does it for me, being more than loud enough and also very flexible and portable. I recently added a classic 450 head which I chain up powering one cab from each head. The reason I got the second head is that I don't like gigging without a spare and as it has the same power amp section it seemed sensible to get one so I can use it. Having both heads in use gives a more solid and focued delivery, with much greater control of the lower frequencies.