Downgrading from Ashdown Rig

[kedo]

[quote name='alanbass1' post='1283984' date='Jun 27 2011, 12:42 PM']As an old SVT/8x10 person I was concerned about going to the newer smaller gear. However, after a little trial and error I have settled on a pair of Bergantino 1x12 cabs (HT112ER & EX112ER) and a TC Electronics RH450 head. Combination really does it for me, being more than loud enough and also very flexible and portable. I recently added a classic 450 head which I chain up powering one cab from each head. The reason I got the second head is that I don't like gigging without a spare and as it has the same power amp section it seemed sensible to get one so I can use it. Having both heads in use gives a more solid and focued delivery, with much greater control of the lower frequencies.[/quote]
Thanks for that Alan.

Something else for me to think about.

Jack

[molan]

[quote name='kedo' post='1283980' date='Jun 27 2011, 12:40 PM']Thanks Molan.

Interesting comments about the Ashdown cabs. Were the ones you used the Neo type with Neodymium speakers?

Thanks

Jack[/quote]

Hi Jack,

I think the ones I gigged with may have been Neos. One was something like a 4x8 and the other was a 1x15.

Both bands used them that night and we both really struggled to get Amy sort of usable tone. The 'thump' was there but that was about it

Tried all the old tricks of cutting mids to get more modern sound and then boosting them to try and get decent cut through but we both gave up in the end.

[nottswarwick]

For what it's worth my ashdown rig is big sounding but not wooly. The EQ is very versatile and I find it easy to get q good sound. And this is coming FROM a markbass set up.

I have hear that the 15s from ashdown can be muddy but my 410 is good. Heavy though.

[kedo]

[quote name='nottswarwick' post='1284054' date='Jun 27 2011, 01:19 PM']For what it's worth my ashdown rig is big sounding but not wooly. The EQ is very versatile and I find it easy to get q good sound. And this is coming FROM a markbass set up.

I have hear that the 15s from ashdown can be muddy but my 410 is good. Heavy though.[/quote]
Thanks Nottswarwick.

Can you give me some advice on how to set the amp for a good sound. Do I use the guitar or amp eq. Do I use compression or valve pre-amp. How do I best set up the amp controlls for a good articulate sound?

Jack

[nottswarwick]

Jack, this works for me...using P basses, vol and tone on full:

Passive level input selected.
Pre Shape On
Valve drive On and at half - 12 o'clock
I don't use the subharmonics
EQ I start with the 3 knobs at half or 12 o'clock and the sliders at mid point, with EQ button engaged. Then I put the treble and mid knobs up to approx 5past, and the bass knob down to about 5to. I boost the treble sliders but only slightly.
I have the tweeter in the cab on full.
Mine is the evo2 so no compression

To my ears this sounds deep but also clear and cuts fine. Everyone on stage can hear it and the DI (set post) sounds ace.

Hope this helps

Edited June 27, 2011 by nottswarwick

[kedo]

[quote name='nottswarwick' post='1284082' date='Jun 27 2011, 01:43 PM']Jack, this works for me...using P basses, vol and tone on full:

Passive level input selected.
Pre Shape On
Valve drive On and at half - 12 o'clock
I don't use the subharmonics
EQ I start with the 3 knobs at half or 12 o'clock and the sliders at mid point, with EQ button engaged. Then I put the treble and mid knobs up to approx 5past, and the bass knob down to about 5to. I boost the treble sliders but only slightly.
I have the tweeter in the cab on full.
Mine is the evo2 so no compression

To my ears this sounds deep but also clear and cuts fine. Everyone on stage can hear it and the DI (set post) sounds ace.

Hope this helps[/quote]
Thanks nottswarwick. I'm really looking forward to giving these settings a try.

Jack

[nottswarwick]

[quote name='kedo' post='1284134' date='Jun 27 2011, 02:23 PM']Thanks nottswarwick. I'm really looking forward to giving these settings a try.

Jack[/quote]

It's a pleasure. I've never really been one for messing around too much with EQ (or effects for that matter), I just set it all flat and tweak to taste. In my opinion it should only be changed from "flat" if it is necessary, not tweaked "just because you can"

Note - the pre shape is a kind of mid scooped sound, which can sound "indistinct" if it is no the sound you are after. My P basses sound quite woody and full, so this is not really an issue with me, but disengaging the preshape makes for a more mid-strong sound. I don't like it though.

I have only just returned to Ashdown after a long time with Markbass rigs, and to be honest personally I don't find it muddy at all.

What basses do you use?

If you are near Nottingham you are welcome to spin over and try mine.

Chris

[kedo]

[quote name='nottswarwick' post='1284150' date='Jun 27 2011, 02:33 PM']It's a pleasure. I've never really been one for messing around too much with EQ (or effects for that matter), I just set it all flat and tweak to taste. In my opinion it should only be changed from "flat" if it is necessary, not tweaked "just because you can"

Note - the pre shape is a kind of mid scooped sound, which can sound "indistinct" if it is no the sound you are after. My P basses sound quite woody and full, so this is not really an issue with me, but disengaging the preshape makes for a more mid-strong sound. I don't like it though.

I have only just returned to Ashdown after a long time with Markbass rigs, and to be honest personally I don't find it muddy at all.

What basses do you use?

If you are near Nottingham you are welcome to spin over and try mine.

Chris[/quote]
Thanks again nottswarick.

I use a Fender custom shop NOS 1964 limited edition Jazz bass and a 'Wolf' bass which was luthier commissioned and made by a guy called John Gormal. Im up in Edinburgh, but I travel a lot and you never know.

Jack

[bassicinstinct]

Just to add a bit more balance to the Ashdown "carnage" above, I've been using the brand for well over 10 years now with no issues at all.

I certainly have never found the sound either muddy or boomy or indistinct, although I've no doubt that it [i][b]could[/b][/i] be given inappropriate EQ settings, but then so could everything else I'd have thought?

I'm now using a Superfly Rig including a 2x8 and a 1x15 cab, so I'm also getting the benefit of lightweight gear too, so I couldn't be happier. Ihave the amp set totally flat, although I do go through a SansAmp BDDI and a few pedals before my rig, but I only tend to EQ on the amp to reduce particular frequencies rather than to boost them, FWIW.

I did try, and fail miserably, to get a decent sound out of a MarkBass rig in a rehearsal studio some time ago, but that's a whole different issue and a whole different thread!!

Frustratingly, it's all very subjective - which is of no help to you, obviously, but I just wanted you to be aware that there are some of us who actually like Ashdown.

Equally , there are those who detest the brand so, ultimately, you pays your money and you makes your choice I'm afraid.

[Paul S]

I just moved from a big 'ol Trace Elliot rig to a TC Electronics Classic 450 through a Barefaced Compact and couldn't be happier. 16kg (vs 62kg) for a rig with more clarity and power.

[nottswarwick]

[quote name='Paul S' post='1285540' date='Jun 28 2011, 06:59 PM']I just moved from a big 'ol Trace Elliot rig to a TC Electronics Classic 450 through a Barefaced Compact and couldn't be happier. 16kg (vs 62kg) for a rig with more clarity and power.[/quote]

To be fair, when I change it will be to a similar set up. But I cannot afford it yet. Alex has pretty much sold me on a Super12t

[kedo]

[quote name='bassicinstinct' post='1285444' date='Jun 28 2011, 05:13 PM']Just to add a bit more balance to the Ashdown "carnage" above, I've been using the brand for well over 10 years now with no issues at all.

I certainly have never found the sound either muddy or boomy or indistinct, although I've no doubt that it [i][b]could[/b][/i] be given inappropriate EQ settings, but then so could everything else I'd have thought?

I'm now using a Superfly Rig including a 2x8 and a 1x15 cab, so I'm also getting the benefit of lightweight gear too, so I couldn't be happier. Ihave the amp set totally flat, although I do go through a SansAmp BDDI and a few pedals before my rig, but I only tend to EQ on the amp to reduce particular frequencies rather than to boost them, FWIW.

I did try, and fail miserably, to get a decent sound out of a MarkBass rig in a rehearsal studio some time ago, but that's a whole different issue and a whole different thread!!

Frustratingly, it's all very subjective - which is of no help to you, obviously, but I just wanted you to be aware that there are some of us who actually like Ashdown.

Equally , there are those who detest the brand so, ultimately, you pays your money and you makes your choice I'm afraid.[/quote]
Hi bassinstinct.

Thanks for your comments.

I have been taking stock of various comments received in response to my posting and believe I should persevere with the Ashdown. I have had a couple of helpfull suggestions as to how to set the amp controls for a better sound. I also think I have been loading too much bass into the eq and also with the 4x10 on top of the 1x15, it has been too much in my face. With both cabinets on the floor and more attention to eq, the sound is what I'm looking for. I've also been playing too loud.

Thanks for your usefull comments.

Jack

[bassicinstinct]

[quote name='kedo' post='1286263' date='Jun 29 2011, 11:51 AM']Hi bassinstinct.

Thanks for your comments.

I have been taking stock of various comments received in response to my posting and believe I should persevere with the Ashdown. I have had a couple of helpfull suggestions as to how to set the amp controls for a better sound. I also think I have been loading too much bass into the eq and also with the 4x10 on top of the 1x15, it has been too much in my face. With both cabinets on the floor and more attention to eq, the sound is what I'm looking for. I've also been playing too loud.

Thanks for your usefull comments.

Jack[/quote]

Glad to hear it Jack!!

I suppose the other thing I should have mentioned is that I do tend to play with the volume on the amp relatively high[i][b] but [/b][/i]with a[i][b] very[/b][/i] light touch.

This seems to help produce a decent "punch" to the overall sound.

I would also echo what I think someone else has already suggested - take your 1x15 out of the equation altogether and see how you like it.

It may very well be yet another situation where less is very much more.

[Cosmo Valdemar]

[quote name='kedo' post='1285425' date='Jun 28 2011, 04:55 PM']Thanks again nottswarick.

I use a Fender custom shop NOS 1964 limited edition Jazz bass[/quote]

There's no reason you couldn't get a wonderful sound with that bass and your Ashdown. When they were being designed, the Fender Jazz was used as the test bass throughout, so it's really as if the amp was designed to make that bass sound great.

One question though - what strings do you use? If the jazz has decade-old flats on it's going to sound pretty indistinct from the off...

Also, my hint for the Ashdown heads - I always found them to sound best with the shape preset off- which, weirdly, has the switch pressed in. A little bit illogical if you ask me. When I first got the head I did a whole tour with the shape EQ engaged, all the while believing that it was off. Should have just trusted my ears I suppose.

[bassicinstinct]

[quote name='Cosmo Valdemar' post='1286425' date='Jun 29 2011, 02:01 PM']There's no reason you couldn't get a wonderful sound with that bass and your Ashdown. When they were being designed, the Fender Jazz was used as the test bass throughout, so it's really as if the amp was designed to make that bass sound great.

One question though - what strings do you use? If the jazz has decade-old flats on it's going to sound pretty indistinct from the off...

Also, my hint for the Ashdown heads - I always found them to sound best with the shape preset off- which, weirdly, has the switch pressed in. A little bit illogical if you ask me. When I first got the head I did a whole tour with the shape EQ engaged, all the while believing that it was off. Should have just trusted my ears I suppose.[/quote]

True dat!!

[kedo]

[quote name='bassicinstinct' post='1286475' date='Jun 29 2011, 02:35 PM']True dat!![/quote]
Thanks again bassinstinct

Interesting to know about the Jazz being used to devellop the ABM amp. Getting on better with it now but have always had the 'flat shape' button out. I will try it next time although when I tried it before it sounded a little dull. Strangely when I bought may 1964 NOS Jazz it came with wire wound strings. Thought I might try original tape wound.

Jack

[Thurbs]

I recently downgraded from a ABM rig and slightly regret it now. I love the ashdown sound and will probably end up going back to it when funds permit. I had the Evo II 500, 115 & 410 and it was awsome.

All that being said, everytime I pick the BFB Midget-T and the Peavey IPR1600 out of the boot a smile comes over my face...

[kedo]

[quote name='Thurbs' post='1287560' date='Jun 30 2011, 12:32 PM']I recently downgraded from a ABM rig and slightly regret it now. I love the ashdown sound and will probably end up going back to it when funds permit. I had the Evo II 500, 115 & 410 and it was awsome.

All that being said, everytime I pick the BFB Midget-T and the Peavey IPR1600 out of the boot a smile comes over my face...[/quote]
Thanks Thurbs.

The more I hear from you guys out there the more I feel that I should keep the Ashdown gear. My friend is an electronics engineer and together we removed the casing from the evoiii. He was blown away by the build quality and quality of components. A very high quality amp.

Jack

[alexclaber]

I think Ashdown's heavier weight amps are rather nice, if they fit the kind of tone you like - they're kind of wide and warm and somewhat furry sounding, which can turn into mud with the wrong cab but be great with the right one. And they really put out some proper power, managing to sustain the voltage they put out into more challenging loads (a weak point with some lightweight amps). And if a tiny little Midget T can replace a 410+115 stack then imagine what a bigger cab can do!

Edited June 30, 2011 by alexclaber

[BobVbass]

Just to confirm what Alex is saying - i've used an abm 500 with my super twelve barefaced and is sound superb - warm but not muddy

[BluRay]

Just to chip in....Ive used mostly an abm 3 for a couple of years now. Overall I'm really happy with it. Sounds ace; really meaty, defined - but with a slight blur to the tone (but in a warm/good way). Took a little while to get used to it, and a bit of trial and error, but good results in the end.

Needless to say I bought the fullstack to go with it (cos I'm a dinasaur, and thought I needed it ) - and regret not looking at other options. Put together, it sounds awesome - though I'm not sure that the ABM 115 adds that much to be honest - and I never really get to use the (better sounding) 410 cos its a pain to shift up our narrow stairs! I'll change the cabs at some point.

On the eq....Like others say, seems you can end up all over the place with just a bit too much of something. That might explain some of the reactions from folk who use them for one-offs, and then say never again! (or maybe they just don't like the flavour! fair enough). But for what its worth, as a starting point - I usually set at bass dial @ 11 oclock, mid dial @ 1 oclock, treble at 1 oclock.Both outside sliders up a notch. Inside sliders flat. Valve at 12oclock (10oclock of using the stingray). Shape switch off. Subbass on @ 8 oclock (not needed, but what the hell). Honestly cant decide what to do about the compressor (suggestions welcome!) Doubt that helps very much but it works for me

[kedo]

[quote name='BluRay' post='1288603' date='Jul 1 2011, 08:58 AM']Just to chip in....Ive used mostly an abm 3 for a couple of years now. Overall I'm really happy with it. Sounds ace; really meaty, defined - but with a slight blur to the tone (but in a warm/good way). Took a little while to get used to it, and a bit of trial and error, but good results in the end.

Needless to say I bought the fullstack to go with it (cos I'm a dinasaur, and thought I needed it ) - and regret not looking at other options. Put together, it sounds awesome - though I'm not sure that the ABM 115 adds that much to be honest - and I never really get to use the (better sounding) 410 cos its a pain to shift up our narrow stairs! I'll change the cabs at some point.

On the eq....Like others say, seems you can end up all over the place with just a bit too much of something. That might explain some of the reactions from folk who use them for one-offs, and then say never again! (or maybe they just don't like the flavour! fair enough). But for what its worth, as a starting point - I usually set at bass dial @ 11 oclock, mid dial @ 1 oclock, treble at 1 oclock.Both outside sliders up a notch. Inside sliders flat. Valve at 12oclock (10oclock of using the stingray). Shape switch off. Subbass on @ 8 oclock (not needed, but what the hell). Honestly cant decide what to do about the compressor (suggestions welcome!) Doubt that helps very much but it works for me [/quote]
Thanks, Something elso to try on the abm. I think I have decided to change the cabinets for a Barefaced super 12, only because of their portability.
Jack

[Truckstop]

[quote name='kedo' post='1288648' date='Jul 1 2011, 09:40 AM']....only because of their portability.
Jack[/quote]

and also because they sound amazing! I doubt you'll ever need to bother dusting off your Ashdown cabs! I played through a Compact at the East Anglia Bass Bash and the tone was unreal.

Truckstop