What do you people mean by 'sustain'?

[Robert Manning]

I hear a lot of possible nonsense surrounding the word sustain and its association with the bass.

• do brands etc literally mean the note hanging on longer?
• I own some expensive basses, and cheap ones. and ive never noticed much difference
• I thought, the string type, and set up would have had the most impacts on sustain, ei the lower action allowing the frets the choke the string from vibrating after the transient.
• Oh and when do we need to play a note that lasts forever?
• maybe its because im not really into 'bass players music' haha


i tried a baddass bridge... not really any different to the stock usa bridge.
on the note of upgrading bridges. when you loosen string and re-tension them, they sound a little brighter: might have something to the do with the small change in sound, in addition most people time a string change if they upgrade there bridge perhaps?

[chris_b]

[quote name='Robert Manning' post='1291132' date='Jul 3 2011, 04:15 PM']I hear a lot of possible nonsense surrounding the word sustain and its association with the bass.

• do brands etc literally mean the note hanging on longer?
• I own some expensive basses, and cheap ones. and ive never noticed much difference
• I thought, the string type, and set up would have had the most impacts on sustain, ei the lower action allowing the frets the choke the string from vibrating after the transient.
• Oh and when do we need to play a note that lasts forever?
• maybe its because im not really into 'bass players music' haha


i tried a baddass bridge... not really any different to the stock usa bridge.
on the note of upgrading bridges. when you loosen string and re-tension them, they sound a little brighter: might have something to the do with the small change in sound, in addition most people time a string change if they upgrade there bridge perhaps?[/quote]
Sustain is not nonsense. It is very important to be able to maintain the note at its best "quality", if that's what is required by the song. Dull notes that die quickly are not good in many forms of music.

If you can't hear the difference in sustain between basses then maybe they are both good, or maybe you just can't hear it.

If you can hear a difference before and after changing the bridge, then maybe the new bridge is making a difference after all, and you just haven't recognised it as such.


PS "You people"???

Edited July 3, 2011 by chris_b

[Robert Manning]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1291155' date='Jul 3 2011, 04:33 PM']PS "You people"???[/quote]


Like, you clever people! i'm quite old fashioned as a bass player.

[bubinga5]

.. i do think that a note should sustain, but when do you ever play a note for that long? most basses sustain long enough to make good music..i really dont buy into this 'my bass sustains for days'... who cares

Edited July 3, 2011 by bubinga5

[Robert Manning]

[quote name='bubinga5' post='1291184' date='Jul 3 2011, 05:05 PM'].. i do think that a note should sustain, but when do you ever play a note for that long? most basses sustain long enough to make good music..i really dont buy into this 'my bass sustains for days'... who cares[/quote]


Thank-you!

its marketing. simple.

plus i think words and there meanings get mixed up a little, 'Harmonics' for example.

[xgsjx]

I started off a keys player & to me sustain is a set level the note will play for until the note is released. Bass guitar notes decay or release, depending on how you look at it. Decay being how quickly a note fades to the sustain level when played (on bass that level is 0 ) & release is how long a note lasts after being released, they don't sustain.
However, I think that when someone is referring to the length of sustain in relation to bass, they do mean the decay/release time & I accept it as that.

I would like a bass that would hold a sustained note as long as it was fretted, but I believe these are called synths

Edited July 3, 2011 by xgsjx

[Robert Manning]

[quote name='xgsjx' post='1291189' date='Jul 3 2011, 05:13 PM']I started off a keys player & to me sustain is a set level the note will play for until the note is released. Bass guitar notes decay or release, depending on how you look at it. Decay being how quickly a note fades to the sustain level when played (on bass that level is 0 ) & release is how long a note lasts after being released, they don't sustain.
However, I think that when someone is referring to the length of sustain in relation to bass, they do mean the decay/release time & I accept it as that.

I would like a bass that would hold a sustained note as long as it was fretted, but I believe these are called synths [/quote]

i'm thinking about penguins! hahah

[ikay]

[quote name='bubinga5' post='1291184' date='Jul 3 2011, 05:05 PM'].. i do think that a note should sustain, but when do you ever play a note for that long? most basses sustain long enough to make good music..i really dont buy into this 'my bass sustains for days'... who cares[/quote]

+1 ... I often stuff foam under my bridge to get less sustain and a bit more punch and thump. Depends what you play I guess

Edited July 3, 2011 by ikay

[bubinga5]

its marketing


yep.. just like string through bodies, high mass bridges, yeah they do make a difference but the difference is so little the only person who cares is the bassist... dont get me wrong i love pimping basses but sometimes i feel that alot of companies are engineering stuff for a problem that isnt there..

[Doddy]

If you are playing a slow ballad and you need to play a semibreve (or two tied together),you don't want the note to
die after 3 beats. I'd much rather have an instrument that has good sustain,because I can always mute the strings
and make the notes shorter.

[Blademan_98]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1291219' date='Jul 3 2011, 05:46 PM']If you are playing a slow ballad and you need to play a semibreve (or two tied together),you don't want the note to
die after 3 beats. I'd much rather have an instrument that has good sustain,because I can always mute the strings
and make the notes shorter.[/quote]

I like that explanation, I too like the note to hold as long as it can.

The decay as it fades adds to the overall performance if played well.

[Robert Manning]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1291219' date='Jul 3 2011, 05:46 PM']If you are playing a slow ballad and you need to play a semibreve (or two tied together),you don't want the note to
die after 3 beats. I'd much rather have an instrument that has good sustain,because I can always mute the strings
and make the notes shorter.[/quote]


What kind of bass, is not capable of that though?
i mean surely the cheapest of basses can hold a note for more than 3 beats, or at least a few seconds.

i have a £40 bass, and i didn't notice short notes or anything like that.

[Blademan_98]

[quote name='Robert Manning' post='1291236' date='Jul 3 2011, 06:01 PM']What kind of bass, is not capable of that though?
i mean surely the cheapest of basses can hold a note for more than 3 beats, or at least a few seconds.

i have a £40 bass, and i didn't notice short notes or anything like that. [/quote]

There is a thread around here somewhere that has someone quoting the RV4 has no sustain.

That's a £245 bass.

It's not the cost it's the setup (IIRC) that affects the sustain.

[Doddy]

[quote name='Robert Manning' post='1291236' date='Jul 3 2011, 06:01 PM']What kind of bass, is not capable of that though?
i mean surely the cheapest of basses can hold a note for more than 3 beats, or at least a few seconds.

i have a £40 bass, and i didn't notice short notes or anything like that. [/quote]

I've played a few Fenders (amongst others) that have really poor sustain.

[MattM]

If you want monster sustain, try an original Steinberger L2/XL2. My XL2 (sound much missed, if not the neck/ergonomics) was an absolute monster, could hold a note or harmonic 25 sec+. I used to wow guitarists, by doing a Nigel Tufnell-stylee "listen to the sustain on that" riff.....

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='Robert Manning' post='1291193' date='Jul 3 2011, 05:18 PM']i'm thinking about penguins! hahah[/quote]

That's just typical of "you people"

There are plenty of cheap basses with plenty of sustain but also some that have so little they're just not suitable for some type of music (like Doddy's example)

I think a reasonable amount of sustain is needed for a decent tone, it helps the harmonic overtones to develop and add a bit of character. As has been said you can always mute the string with your fingers / palm / foam etc if you want less sustain. If you don't have enough then you're sunk.

[bubinga5]

i just dont buy it.. ive played hundreds of basses and everyone could hold a note for 5 seconds or more... if not the strings are very old... there is much more important things in bass guitars... im a total geek when it comes to basses but i know whats worth spending money on to get a good tone..Thats why i bought some Lollars from Clarky... oooh that mans a good egg.

[Blademan_98]

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=134339&hl=sustain"]Sustain[/url]

There is a thread about poor sustain and its causes.

[Ou7shined]

I'd have to argue that it is simply marketing.

To get a bass to sustain longer you have to up the build quality and the coupling of the hardware and use selected materials. This much is fact.

Musically however it has little value to us lowenders.

Unproven claims of greater sustain may well be simple marketing though.

[chris_b]

Sustain isn't marketing! It's a about being asked or required to hold a note for 1, 2 or more bars and being able to do it. You may never have to do this in the music you play but there are situations where it might be needed. A bass that sustains well usually sounds better across the board.

If you're asked to hold a note and reply, "Sorry mate, I don't believe in that, it's just marketing", you won't be asked back. Again, that might not bother some of you but please concede that it does matter to some of us.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1291315' date='Jul 3 2011, 07:06 PM']Sustain isn't marketing! It's a about being asked or required to hold a note for 1, 2 or more bars and being able to do it. You may never have to do this in the music you play but there are situations where it might be needed. A bass that sustains well usually sounds better across the board.

If you're asked to hold a note and reply, "Sorry mate, I don't believe in that, it's just marketing", you won't be asked back. Again, that might not bother some of you but please concede that it does matter to some of us.[/quote]
Good point well made.

[bubinga5]

i agree but most basses have a sustain that lasts for 1 or 2 bars... i think the marketing thing stems from claims that one bass sustains more than others... to start saying a bass should sustain for ages is IMO marketing..

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1291219' date='Jul 3 2011, 05:46 PM']If you are playing a slow ballad and you need to play a semibreve (or two tied together),you don't want the note to
die after 3 beats. I'd much rather have an instrument that has good sustain,because I can always mute the strings
and make the notes shorter.[/quote]

Semibreve? What's that in seconds?

[xgsjx]

In seconds, it depends on the tempo. 120 BPM = 2 seconds.

A good sustain is needed for a good 80s ballad.

Edited July 3, 2011 by xgsjx

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='1291329' date='Jul 3 2011, 07:19 PM']Semibreve? What's that in seconds? [/quote]
This much *clap* nods *clap*.