Noisyjon Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 I managed to get John @Bravewood Guitars to take on a custom build for me. It was an early 50’s style P bass with some twists of my own. There were various emails over the approx. 7 months build time and all went well. After about 9 months of having the bass I noticed that there was a rattling sound coming from the neck. There were various theories and I even changed the tuners to some nice Hipshots but to no avail. It still rattled badly. When the bass was approx 13 months old I got Martin @The Gallery to take a look and he almost instantly showed & told me it was a truss rod problem. The advice I got from him was that I need to take it up with Bravewood Guitars which I promptly did. I was told PDQ by John Elliot @Bravewood Guitars that he only offers a 12 month warranty and any work needing doing was chargeable. He also suggested I could just live with it. On a £1,500, now faulty with a non working truss rod in the bass! After talking to a friend about it he suggested composing another polite email appealing to his better nature/professional pride and to help me out with this problem. This was done and I heard nothing back. It was at this point that I started a thread on BC and it ran to 6 pages with all sorts of help, advice & opinions. Then John Elliot emailed me saying he had read the thread and offered to take the neck back for a repair with some provisos like I don’t post any more on BC about the situation or quote his emails on here. Upon hearing this I couriered it back to him ASAP, at my cost. The neck returned to me with no communication about what was done/required to rectify it. I then took the kit of parts to The Gallery and it was rebuilt and setup by them, again at my cost. Now this may not seem like a big deal from reading this now but there was a point in time where I was left hanging thinking that my £1,500 bass, just over a year old, was knackered and unplayable with the only course of action looking like a legal based one. My closing thoughts are this – John Elliot @Bravewood Guitars left me feeling massively let down, now out of pocket by another £100 or so and having to potentially face a fight for what turned out are my rights after getting advice from the OFT’s Consumer Direct helpline referring to the specifics of the Sales of Goods Act 1979 (as amended). This is something that he should be well aware of especially with the type of products he sells. Thankfully I didn’t have to go down this route as it seems the thread on BC got him to think again. Bravewood Guitars is never getting another penny out of me and I will never recommend him or his instruments to anyone. Please beware of this man & his business practices if you are thinking of doing business with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBod Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 So...not really a happy ending. Thanks for keeping us informed. I guess his customer service is never going to improve much (lets hope his neck construction does!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noisyjon Posted July 6, 2011 Author Share Posted July 6, 2011 [quote name='BassBod' post='1294519' date='Jul 6 2011, 11:27 AM']So...not really a happy ending. Thanks for keeping us informed. I guess his customer service is never going to improve much (lets hope his neck construction does!).[/quote] The only way I can put it diplomatically is that it was all very disappointing. On the plus side it now plays like a Custom Shop instrument after its setup at The Gallery! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmer61 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 [quote name='jonthebass' post='1294504' date='Jul 6 2011, 11:13 AM']Then John Elliot emailed me saying he had read the thread and offered to take the neck back for a repair with some provisos like I don’t post any more on BC about the situation or quote his emails on here.[/quote] What about the above?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noisyjon Posted July 6, 2011 Author Share Posted July 6, 2011 [quote name='farmer61' post='1294591' date='Jul 6 2011, 12:11 PM']What about the above?? [/quote] That was specific to the other thread to stop what was being quoted and said there. This is a follow up feedback thread so that BCers can see how it all panned out in the end and to make up their own mind from my experience & opinion. Cheers, Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart3442 Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 I'm a bit late coming to this thread but I find it puzzling that you didn't contact Bravewood when the problem manifested itself. The Bass was within warranty so you would have had no issue. Then, having lived with the problem for four months, you take the Bass to another Luthier rather than contact the builder first. I've had dealings with John Elliot and have no complaints. To refer one of his handmade instruments as a "collection of parts" is an insult to the man and his skills. As for his customer care, or lack of according to you, As I'm not privvy to the tone of the dialoque between you both I can't comment and I'll try not to read between the lines. I can only comment from my own experience with the man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noisyjon Posted July 2, 2013 Author Share Posted July 2, 2013 [quote name='mart3442' timestamp='1372758873' post='2129484'] I'm a bit late coming to this thread but I find it puzzling that you didn't contact Bravewood when the problem manifested itself. The Bass was within warranty so you would have had no issue. Then, having lived with the problem for four months, you take the Bass to another Luthier rather than contact the builder first. I've had dealings with John Elliot and have no complaints. To refer one of his handmade instruments as a "collection of parts" is an insult to the man and his skills. As for his customer care, or lack of according to you, As I'm not privvy to the tone of the dialoque between you both I can't comment and I'll try not to read between the lines. I can only comment from my own experience with the man. [/quote] Well, All in your opinion of course Mart and thanks for dragging up a sore subject. Life is never that simple and I had other things going on back then that meant I couldn't deal with the bass immediately, not that it is any of your business. When the time came I took the bass to The Gallery to see what exactly the problem was hoping it was just a minor thing that needed attention, as it happened it wasn't and I only discovered there and then what the situation was. As for the Gallery and to their credit they advised me to immediately contact the manufacturer and take it up with him which is what I did. About the whole warranty debacle - Why does/should the warranty only exist for 12 months on a very expensive custom made bass that should last a very long time? It doesn't and the advice from the OFT was clear and I followed it. On the subject of "[i]To refer one of his handmade instruments as a "collection of parts" is an insult to the man and his skills[/i]" - I never said that, maybe someone else did? With a bit of time and space having passed since this was all dealt with all I can say to you is that a good measure of how a business's customer service is how they deal with things when they go wrong and this was a massive pain in the arse and all very unnecessary from the get go. If you've had a good experience then great, I'm pleased for you - I didn't and wanted to feedback on the situation so others can decide for themselves based on my experiences with John Elliot at Bravewood Guitars. By the way it's for sale in The Gallery at the moment if you fancy a Bravewood Custom 50s Precision bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart3442 Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 (edited) Apologies, the actual term was "Kit of parts" not collection of parts. You are quite correct about any issues you may have had in your life being none of my business, I have merely put my opinions across on a matter that you raised on a discussion forum where the members may freely exchange their views an opinions...... I am a member of this forum am entitled to voice my opinion, just as you are. I do find it quite surprising that once you had agreed to the proviso regarding the first thread, you start another once the neck has been repaired (regardless of whether you had to pay for that or not). Surely, your point had already been made? As previously stated, I am can only go by my own experience, thereby giving others the option to decide based on my experience as well as yours...... Edited July 2, 2013 by mart3442 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noisyjon Posted July 2, 2013 Author Share Posted July 2, 2013 [quote name='mart3442' timestamp='1372769188' post='2129644'] Apologies, the actual term was "Kit of parts" not collection of parts. You are quite correct about any issues you may have had in your life being none of my business, I have merely put my opinions across on a matter that you raised on a discussion forum where the members may freely exchange their views an opinions...... I am a member of this forum am entitled to voice my opinion, just as you are. I do find it quite surprising that once you had agreed to the proviso regarding the first thread, you start another once the neck has been repaired (regardless of whether you had to pay for that or not). Surely, your point had already been made? As previously stated, I am can only go by my own experience, thereby giving others the option to decide based on my experience as well as yours...... [/quote] I'm of the thinking that everyone on BC needs to hear both types of feedback and here we are with our opinions and experiences of both. What exactly is your problem with me voicing it though? I must say you are coming across as a bit of a Bravewood Fan-Boy where no-one can say anything other than glowing reports... Correct me if I'm wrong as it is a pig to judge emotionless text on a screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 I know Jon and the bass concerned and all the grief it caused him, starting from the get go (when JE supplied incorrectly specified machine heads if I recall correctly). You are of course entitled to state your good experiences with Bravewood but I feel its frankly over-stepping the mark to question the conduct of another customer who did nothing wrong and essentially received a custom instrument costing over a grand that was not fit for purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 [quote name='mart3442' timestamp='1372758873' post='2129484'] I'm a bit late coming to this thread ... [/quote] There's always room for a bit of dramatic understatement ([i]litotes[/i], if you prefer the Greek). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveyboyrooster Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 So sorry to her that Bravewood has another dissatisfied customer. I too had a very disappointing experience with John at Bravewood about 6 or 7 years ago! . He took on a job for me to plug a jazz bass pick up routing in the body of my 1972 Fender P Bass and then refinished it in fiesta red nitro with moderate relicing. Pictures of my bass at various stages of work were posted on his website. The work took a good six months to finish and I eagerly opened my package when it arrived. Wow what a disappointment! You could clearly see the plugged pickup routing as it has sunk slightly in the nitro paint. Not at all what i was perpared for! I rang John straight away and he was shocked that I was not happy. He was very abrupt to me on the phone. Not what I had expected considering I had shelled out more than £300 for this job. He told me that it was to be expected because nitro paint was so thin! Shame he never once mentioned this when I was asking him for a price to route and plug this pickup hole to hide the modification on the phone some 6 months previous! Even supplied him with some detailed phots of the body by email prior to the deal being struck! Low and behold almost immediately on haging up the phone, all of the photos from the work he had done on my bass were removed from his website and a statement posted that he would not be taking on any more work on Fenders unless they were pre CBS. We pays our money and takes our choice I guess! I will personally never be asking Bravewood guitars to carry out any work on my guitars or supply me any relic parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart3442 Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Was I questioning anyones conduct? I'm just trying to ascertain whats gone wrong in the customer/retailer ralationship. Far from being a "Fanboy" who believes John Elliot can do no wrong, I'm interested to read about your experiences and admit to being more than a tad surprised that you guys have had a bad time of it as I can only base my opinion on my own experience. I can't speak for bravewood and would never presume to do so, but I can't imagine that any small business would be able to continue to trade if all customers were dealt with in the manner that you guys have described...... Isolated incidents and miscommunication hopefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noisyjon Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share Posted July 4, 2013 [quote name='mart3442' timestamp='1372943735' post='2131918'] Was I questioning anyones conduct? I'm just trying to ascertain whats gone wrong in the customer/retailer ralationship. Far from being a "Fanboy" who believes John Elliot can do no wrong, I'm interested to read about your experiences and admit to being more than a tad surprised that you guys have had a bad time of it as I can only base my opinion on my own experience. I can't speak for bravewood and would never presume to do so, but I can't imagine that any small business would be able to continue to trade if all customers were dealt with in the manner that you guys have described...... Isolated incidents and miscommunication hopefully. [/quote] Hi Mart, Sorry to be so abrasive and yeah, all opinions and experiences shared help everyone. For a bit more on this subject and Bravewood have a look at this thread: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/134354-problem-with-my-bravewood-bass-and-the-customer-service-i-received/page__hl__bravewood"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/134354-problem-with-my-bravewood-bass-and-the-customer-service-i-received/page__hl__bravewood[/url] ATB, Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart3442 Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 The last thing I wanted to do was stir things up for the sake of it and I certainly wasn't having a go at you Jon, I apologise if thats how I came across. Thanks, I will have look at the original thread. Best regards, Martin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noisyjon Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share Posted July 4, 2013 No problem Martin. So, what Bravewood bass do you have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart3442 Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 (edited) I don't, he did a lot of remedial work on a 1960 Jazz Bass I have. First rate work all the way. Edited July 8, 2013 by mart3442 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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