Lozz196 Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 [quote name='Al Heeley' post='1298873' date='Jul 10 2011, 11:42 AM']We had a chat before the gig last night, and spent more time taking some bass off the guitars, boosting my mids a touch, and lowering overall level from the start. I waqs able to play at about 75% volume for a change, the drummer was a lot clearer but the guitarists were seriously pissed off. Trouble playing in a small pub is 1) The cymbals deafen you 2) Everyone's playing on top of their cabs and so much of the sound goes out underneath you. The guitarist with mesa was not able to hear himself where he stood (next to the cymbals) so immediately had his vol way up too loud, drowning everything else out. Bringing it back down to a balanced level up front meant he could barely hear himself all night. Overall we sounded a lot better and I was able to play with an authorative sound without having to play half as hard as I normally have to; this made it less tiring and made the fast passages a lot easier. Also less punters got ear damage, and we get asked back again for another gig. Geez, I hate playing tiny pubs.[/quote] Great that it worked, must have been much more enjoyable, and always nice to be asked back. Re the guitarist with the Mesa - when you soundcheck, why don`t you all (except the drummer) walk as far forward as you can? This way, the guitarist will see how much the amp projects the sound, and hopefully how unbearably loud out front it can be. Guitar amps work this way, I`ve encountered this with a few guitarists who, strangely enough, were using half-stacks. Monckymans idea to get the guitar amps up off the floor is a good one as well - speakers nearer guitarists ears, easier for them to hear. Cymbals - our old dummer used very light sticks, this way, he could hit hard and fast, without being too loud - see if the drummer is willing to try lighter sticks. All things that seem trivial and "interfering with my sound" but virtually all the bands/musicians that have a good sound have been through this - practicing is much more than just playing the songs, it`s finding the right sound/set-up/equipment too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 agree that small pubs are off limits for some bands... You'd do as well to not bother playing unsuitable venues that are too small unless you can gear your volume to that place. A good gauge is when bar staff can't hear what drinks are being ordered and you get a lot of leaning closer and cupping of the ears. It is these smaller places that do the damage as well. I've played on stages with a good few 000, watts of side-fills and foldback..and the sound was so comfortable you can talk loudly to the drummer....!! If the stage is so small, you are pushed up against the cymbals....then you have to decide whether that place is worth it...and certainly have ear protection to hand. We find our drummer is the reason for our volume creep..as he thinks he can't be heard. Once we get that sorted..our stage volume is far more comfortable. If gtrs are loud enough to blow intrsuments and drums out..you can bet the Vox PA is struggling..and that is the point when punters realise the band doesn't sound good.. Nothing is as unforgiving as poor vocals..and distortion on the signal..it dooms anyone..!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 [quote name='Al Heeley' post='1298873' date='Jul 10 2011, 11:42 AM']....Geez, I hate playing tiny pubs....[/quote] Tiny pubs are great as long as you adapt to the venue. There's nothing clever about driving your audience into the pub next door. The trouble is that your guitarists' wallets are bigger than their brains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algmusic Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 It's funny how musicians and I say this in the looses sense of the word, don't understand [b]volume[/b]... Did an acoustic duo gig at Oneils for the first time in years, we turned up. Plugged in to our PA, mixed the level from our inears and we were ready to go. The manager, mentioned volumes before we even had all our gear on the stage.. We played at a moderate level. Loud enough to give the audience a show but quiet to be ignored, and funnliy enough WAY below the sound meter... it wasn't that hard... We used the volume knob The manager wanted us back the next week.. I'm also a drummer and as much as I can hit my drums, if I want and get volume, you gotta read the venue.. With a small venue, you gotta be comfortable to play at the drummers level, if the drummer is too loud, change the drummer, if the guitarist is too loud, change the guitarist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironside1966 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 A few points worth noting Volume is like having sugar in you tea, when you have less it is hard but you soon get used to it. The next thing to look at is the band arrangements, if all the instruments are playing around the same frequency range and then each individual instrument can get lost in a sea of sound, then everyone will try to compensate by tuning the volume up. Try getting one of the guitarists to play different inversions of the chords, not play as loud on the lower strings, play 5th and octave on power chords rather than root and 5th, just basely be aware to leave space for the other instruments Monckyman made a good point about lifting the guitar amps of the floor for more than just the obvious reasons. When a cab is on the floor the microphone in front of it can pick up the reflections of the floor changing the sound FOH, also if the cab is on the floor facing forward some of the higher frequencies get lost to the player so they more top to compensate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 [quote name='ironside1966' post='1300112' date='Jul 11 2011, 05:27 PM']Monckyman made a good point about lifting the guitar amps of the floor for more than just the obvious reasons. When a cab is on the floor the microphone in front of it can pick up the reflections of the floor changing the sound FOH, also if the cab is on the floor facing forward some of the higher frequencies get lost to the player so they more top to compensate.[/quote] I had a friend who promoted gigs and also used to dep as the sound guy. He used to moan about how the guitarists used to play far too loud for the venue and spoil the mix. I suggested that he raise the amps up to head height and point the speakers at the guys playing them. If you've ever had a loud guitar amp played feet from your ears let me tell you it's a painful experience. He took my advice and inevitably they all turned down to a reasonable volume. None of those guys complained about not being able to hear themselves and they're all probably deaf now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomBassmonkey Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 If I was in a band with a guy using a Mesa with extension cab at a small venue, I'd be considering which was more important, the band or my hearing. The guitarist in my band uses a 1x12 50w Mesa combo and it rarely goes above 3. The thing to remember about valve guitar amps is the distortion sounds better when they're cranked, buying an extension cab then having to turn down is actually bad for your tone. If you're using a 4x10 and 1x15 and you can't hear yourself, something is seriously wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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