Marky L Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 My singer and I have been writing some original material, we've recorded it and are now close to the position of sending them off to try and get some music industry notice. Our issue at the moment is copyrighting. Does anyone have any suggestions on the best way of getting our material protected from the possibilty of theft? My singer (not the most web savvy) came up with the following link - [url="http://copyrighthouse.co.uk/"]copyrighthouse.co.uk[/url] I've had a look at it and to me it looks decidely amature. A single page, yards of waffling text, a few testemonials and lots of scrolling before you get to the price, which seems too cheap. Just looks somewhat scammy to me. Anything to help this stage of our creative journey would be fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMech Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 been learning alot about patents recently, but not so much about copyrights. this is the official government page for it, which should be pretty helpful. [url="http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/copy.htm"]http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/copy.htm[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 My understanding is that copyright is automatic; you don't have to 'apply' or 'register' it as such. But the onus is on you to be able to prove it's an original work and its date of creation. I've heard of people sending themselves a letter containing written material, which establishes the date, and leaving it unopened until it might be required. Though I have some doubts about that. A similar thing would, I guess, be to lodge a copy of the song with a solicitor and have the date witnessed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky L Posted July 10, 2011 Author Share Posted July 10, 2011 Flyfisher, from what I've heard the sending your material to yourself routine isn't foolproof (for reasons I don't know as yet) which is why we've been digging a little deeper but it would seem to be the best place to start but have a second option in place too. ZMech, I'll have a read of the Gov page thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Yeah, I've heard the suggestion a few times but have wondered about how it could be 'absolute' proof. Besides, I assume the letter would have to be opened in the presense of a recognised witness to verify it, in which case lodging the witnessed papers with a solicitor might be a better option. Good luck with the songs though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMech Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 [quote name='flyfisher' post='1298906' date='Jul 10 2011, 12:23 PM']I've heard of people sending themselves a letter containing written material, which establishes the date, and leaving it unopened until it might be required. Though I have some doubts about that.[/quote] I think the bit you've left out is that they do it with recorded delivery, so that they have a receipt of the date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PURPOLARIS Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 [quote name='Marky L' post='1298814' date='Jul 10 2011, 10:18 AM']My singer and I have been writing some original material, we've recorded it and are now close to the position of sending them off to try and get some music industry notice. Our issue at the moment is copyrighting. Does anyone have any suggestions on the best way of getting our material protected from the possibilty of theft? My singer (not the most web savvy) came up with the following link - [url="http://copyrighthouse.co.uk/"]copyrighthouse.co.uk[/url] I've had a look at it and to me it looks decidely amature. A single page, yards of waffling text, a few testemonials and lots of scrolling before you get to the price, which seems too cheap. Just looks somewhat scammy to me. Anything to help this stage of our creative journey would be fantastic.[/quote] Can you not just upload it to youtube and myspace or something. I might be wrong but I think they record the upload date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Copyright (music, written word and any IP) is automatic. Lodged with a solicitor and date stamped is the most secure way. However, with music / written word, you can suddenly be accused of infringing someone else's copyright! I did have this, with something I put up on myspace. The Rolling Stone's representitive contacted me and said the riff was stolen from Honky Tonk Women! (Probably was subconciously) lol. Get your CD (or whatever media you have) and lodge it with a solicitor (costs a few pounds a year upkeep) and then send it out. If you hear your stuff later on, the solicitor will then verify it came from you. The court case (think Pink Floyd) can last years! Hope that helps......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky L Posted July 11, 2011 Author Share Posted July 11, 2011 Thanks everyone. Maybe the CD with a solicitor route would be a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenny B Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Don't waste your money on any of those. By the time you get to opening the envelope in court or getting a lawyer to produce it, you'll be thousands of pounds into legal costs. The important bit is that copyright only exists when recorded - that means fixed in any permanent form, not necessarily a musical recording (so a transcription or scribble would be valid) - any way you can evidence that will be fine, but don't waste money on any of these copyright protection services. Will expand more on this later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky L Posted July 11, 2011 Author Share Posted July 11, 2011 [quote name='Lenny B' post='1299634' date='Jul 11 2011, 09:34 AM']Don't waste your money on any of those. By the time you get to opening the envelope in court or getting a lawyer to produce it, you'll be thousands of pounds into legal costs. The important bit is that copyright only exists when recorded - that means fixed in any permanent form, not necessarily a musical recording (so a transcription or scribble would be valid) - any way you can evidence that will be fine, but don't waste money on any of these copyright protection services. [i]Will expand more on this later[/i][/quote] Yes please Lenny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky L Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 The material was originally recorded on an eight track HD desk and I then took the tracks on to my PC, fiddled with them on there and then saved them as WAVs and finally wrote a number of audio CD's for friends to review, so I guess we have the digital date thing covered, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Be aware that digital file timestamps can be changed fairly easily, so I'm not sure if this would be acceptable evidence if things went legal. But if things do go legal it's usually too late anyway as it'll be a long, messy and expensive business Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 As Flyfisher says, in the good ole days a tape sent recorded to yourself & never opened unless needed in court was the way to go. Nowadays it's much easier. Stick it on YouTube/Flickr/Myspace/Whatever & it should have an "Uploaded" date. Negates the "you could have set a different date on your PC" argument (unless there's a hack for tinterweb dates). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenny B Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 [quote name='flyfisher' post='1300632' date='Jul 12 2011, 08:49 AM']But if things do go legal it's usually too late anyway as it'll be a long, messy and expensive business [/quote] Agreed (and I say this as a lawyer) Other thoughts; - in order to have a copyright claim, you have to prove actual copying - not that someone's created something a bit like yours, not coincidence, and not similar to anything else out there. - How to prove copying? Having your music online or emailed / posted it to someone is not enough to prove that someone copied. And if you want to start getting legal, you can be a long way down the litigation route (expensive!) before your opponent has to disclose any evidence - What's the damages? Unless the 'copied' song is a worldwide Beyonce / Rhianna smash, is the cost of litigation worth the costs? UK damages are based on what you would have lost had your work not been infringed. More importantly, does your opponent have money if you win? - and also, good luck if you're planning to get any industry people to listen to any unsolicited material - they can be very picky about that... Hope that helps. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) The main reason posting stuff to yourself is not often foolproof is because people usually don't put enough effort into making sure they do it properly. Simply posting a recording (which could have been picked up at someone's house) and then sending it through the post by regular mail, where there is no proof of the date or sender can easily make the exercise pointless. There is no way to prove that the recording belongs to you or that you did indeed send it on a specific date. However, if you do a couple of extra little things, then it should be a perfectly good way to ensure your material is not plagiarised. I know it's a ball ache but you would better off if you also transcribe the music (even a lead sheet or tab but obviously the more info and direction you can express in the transcription, the better) so that you have written evidence of your intentions for the song. Then make a recording of it. Then buy a newspaper from the date (i.e. today), fold that up and place it in an envelope with the transcription/s and the recording and get it sent to yourself via Recorded Delivery. The newspaper and the stamped date provided by the post office will prove the dates if you ever need to (and the letter details will be stored with the Post Office as they keep details on recorded deliverypost, including who it was sent to and the date it was sent), and the transcriptions and recordings will provide a definitive version of the song to compare any stolen version too, in order to make a judgement as to whether the intellectual copyright has been breached. Then once the letter is posted back to you, file it away and leave it unopened until you need it. Which you never will. Edited July 12, 2011 by skej21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenny B Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 [quote name='skej21' post='1300664' date='Jul 12 2011, 09:30 AM']However, if you do a couple of extra little things, then it should be a perfectly good way to ensure your material is not plagiarised.[/quote] All that does is prove that by that date, you had that piece of music - the tricky bit is to prove someone else heard it, and then copied it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky L Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 Sounds like a family catering sized can of worms. I do appreciate all your input and certainly do realise that if it ever did get to the point of a legal claim that we'd be in a financial ass biting situation. In a somewhat obtuse view point, if our work was copied than I suppose that would be a sort os stamp of approval of waht we created! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 [quote name='skej21' post='1300664' date='Jul 12 2011, 09:30 AM']Then once the letter is posted back to you, file it away and leave it unopened until you need it. Which you never will. [/quote] True - I have 4,000 of these bloody things in my shed and noone has ever asked me to prove I wrote anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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