Which AMP?

[dustybass]

Hi all at BASSCHAT forum,

my first post and looking for advice:

I have a peavy black widow cab (1x18", 250watts 4ohms) I also have a ibanez active 5 string bass, sadly there is nothing to join the two together in low frequency harmony. was looking at the MARKBASS little bass, any one know of any other amps that are good and within a £400 budget?


cheers Guys (& Girls)


Regards


Dusty

[waynepunkdude]

Orange Bass Terror

[Blademan_98]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='1299008' date='Jul 10 2011, 03:07 PM']Orange Bass Terror[/quote]

^ This

[xgsjx]

I like the Markbass LMII but there's many good amps in your budget.
The Orange is a popular wee amp also but from what I've heard, it only does one sound & that is overdriven (albeit very good at it). If I want OD, I add it via a pedal.

Go to a shop & try, try, try!

[Conan]

If you include second-hand/used amps in your shopping, then your budget will go a lot further and the world is almost your oyster! Have a look in the "amps and cabs for sale" section on here. So much choice and so little time!

This one for instance - [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=137355"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=137355[/url]

Or this one - [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=144899"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=144899[/url]

This one - [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=141065"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=141065[/url]

Or even this one! - [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=143801"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=143801[/url]

Everyone has their favourite and will tend to recommend that, but some idea of the type of sound you are after and the type of music you play would make it easier to make recommendations...

Edited July 10, 2011 by Conan

[Lozz196]

Within £400 def look at the Orange Terror - not the most versatile of amps, but a great sound. Incredibly loud too.

Also as you`ve said, Markbass is worth a look, as is TC Electronic - there are some very good deals re TC at the moment.

And in keeping with recommending my personal fave, the Ampeg PF-500.

[dc2009]

That's a BIG budget. IMO the markbass heads are terrible, the VLE (some emulator they put in) is like a crap-knob to my ears, I have to use one at my practice room, not only is it fairly short on power but I'm never impressed with the sound using any of my basses, and that's through tc electronics and hartke cabs so it's not like the rest of the rig is bad. Avoid markbass would be my recommendation.

Never had a proper go on an Orange but give it a try and see. I'd heartily recommend trying Gallien Krueger though, especially for that sort of money.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1299475' date='Jul 11 2011, 12:11 AM']That's a BIG budget. IMO the markbass heads are terrible, the VLE (some emulator they put in) is like a crap-knob to my ears, I have to use one at my practice room, not only is it fairly short on power but I'm never impressed with the sound using any of my basses, and that's through tc electronics and hartke cabs so it's not like the rest of the rig is bad. Avoid markbass would be my recommendation.

Never had a proper go on an Orange but give it a try and see. I'd heartily recommend trying Gallien Krueger though, especially for that sort of money.[/quote]

That seems very strange that it's short on power. There might be a problem with it (or one of the cabs) as "short on power" is not something I've come across on mine or anyone else's.
I use the MB 2x10 combo & it's probably the loudest 2x10 combo (or any combo) I've ever played through & that's at 8Ω. If the OP is using a 4Ω 18" he's gonna be moving a lot of air.

The VLE & VPF are not to everyone's taste & both do different things. I like the VLE for taking away a little of the "HiFi" sound.
A wee thought I've had, is the head going through TC & Hartke cabs together & are they different sized drivers? Also is it the Hartke aluminium cones? Mixed cones (size, construction, etc) can have negative effects as they put out different sized soundwaves which affect each other.
I'd try changing the head in the rehearsal room & see if that helps, or try just one of the cabs with the MB head.

[dc2009]

[quote name='xgsjx' post='1299614' date='Jul 11 2011, 09:10 AM']That seems very strange that it's short on power. There might be a problem with it (or one of the cabs) as "short on power" is not something I've come across on mine or anyone else's.
I use the MB 2x10 combo & it's probably the loudest 2x10 combo (or any combo) I've ever played through & that's at 8Ω. If the OP is using a 4Ω 18" he's gonna be moving a lot of air.

The VLE & VPF are not to everyone's taste & both do different things. I like the VLE for taking away a little of the "HiFi" sound.
A wee thought I've had, is the head going through TC & Hartke cabs together & are they different sized drivers? Also is it the Hartke aluminium cones? Mixed cones (size, construction, etc) can have negative effects as they put out different sized soundwaves which affect each other.
I'd try changing the head in the rehearsal room & see if that helps, or try just one of the cabs with the MB head.[/quote]

I will add that I'm not a fan of Markbass in general, I liked the first one I played and have disliked all the subsequent ones I've tried. I was in the bass gallery the other day and got put through a markbass, got asked to be put through a different amp for the other bass i tried and just got put through a different one! Not the guy's fault, they were friendly and nice, I probably should've said something I guess.

As for the specific problem. I'm unsure as to which cabs are in use (one of the Hartke's is broken I think so not sure on that) but I'm fairly sure it's now through a paper-coned tc 2x10 (or maybe 12), and an aluminium-coned hartke 4x10 (the transporter IIRC). Fairly sure the head is a little mark 250 or something similar if that model doesn't exist. It's not overly short on power but I can end up cranking it to 7 or 8 in practice, we have to practice fairly loudly due to the guitards belief that the drummer should smash the skins into the middle of next month (sigh) but I still expect a bit more headroom from the thing. I'm never overly impressed with the EQ section and the VLE was just a no-go for me, the VLF was usable but not a feature I'd be fussed about paying for IMO. It's unfortunately not my practice room (uni), so I don't fancy leaving my trace head there, and even less fancy lugging it there every single practice. I also find that even with the hartke alu cones my sound isn't all that bright either. I also think the rig struggles with the B string more than my own rig, though this may be the fault of the cabs rather than head.

I know these are all my opinions, but I also believe that even if Markbass are good which many more people probably think than don't, they are a little pricey for the product, I've heard good things about orange value for money, and I would seriously recommend Hartke's new or old range. The older HA's had a huge EQ section, and provided you [b]DON'T[/b] get the 3500 model, you will have an actual tube/solid state hybrid section that sounds superb. If you prefer simplicity over a huge EQ section then I can advise getting the new models which as I recently heard Dave Ellefson say are 'great because there's no messing about, bass, middle and treble, 'what more do you need?'

[dc2009]

Edit, just realised your cab is a 1x18, if I were you I would consider selling it and getting a whole new stack/half stack. Reason being it's a 4 ohm cab so you will struggle to find a head that can handle a 2 ohm rating (there are some but they tend to be huge power amp sections for which you'd want a preamp and a higher power rated cab most likely), and IMO you [b]need[/b] something like a 2x10 or ideally a 4x10 to compliment a 1x18.
The other benefit of this is that you could possibly get a cab and head from the same manufacturer, which typically work better together than a b*stard child mix and match like I've got

[redstriper]

Your choice of amp depends on the type of music you play and the tone you want - the choice is entirely subjective.

I tried a lot of amps at home through my cab before buying the LM2, including buying a new Hartke LH1000 and returning it because I didn't like the tone.
I would recommend this approach because it's the only way to know if an amp will suit you.

I play reggae and soul music and I love my Markbass LM2 through a single 15" cab - I'm sure I'd be very happy to play it through your Peavy 18", but the tone might not suit you and the weight wouldn't suit me!
A friend of mine uses an LM2 for funk and Jaco style fretless bass and he loves it too, although he keeps the eq flat, while I cut the mids.

Good luck.

[xgsjx]

Markbass might not be to everyone's liking, which is why you should try before you buy. Although saying that, I tried countless combos & amp/cabs before buying the MB without trying it (thanks BC).

If you like the sound of your 1x18 & want something to comliment it, another 1x18 is your best option, but like dc2009 says, there's not that many 2 ohm heads (EBS come to mind, so I'd check them out).
If you're gonna change cabs then a good 1x15, 2x10 (or 2 2x10s vertically) will give you as much bass as your 1x18.

[dc2009]

[quote name='xgsjx' post='1299909' date='Jul 11 2011, 02:16 PM']Markbass might not be to everyone's liking, which is why you should try before you buy. Although saying that, I tried countless combos & amp/cabs before buying the MB without trying it (thanks BC).

If you like the sound of your 1x18 & want something to comliment it, another 1x18 is your best option, but like dc2009 says, there's not that many 2 ohm heads (EBS come to mind, so I'd check them out).
If you're gonna change cabs then a good 1x15, 2x10 (or 2 2x10s vertically) will give you as much bass as your 1x18.[/quote]

See I'm gonna disagree, cos this is all personal taste, but IMO a perfect stack is a 1x15 (read 18 if you want they're just more rare) and a 4x10 (or a 2x15 and an 8x10 if I was a stadium player ). So to my liking I'd advocate a 4x10 with your 1x18, but obviously this conjures the 2ohm power section problem, though definitely check out EBS for some professional quality bass gear, this is again all personal choice. Go to a decent store if you can, they'll help.

[BasH]

It really depends what kind of bass sound you are looking for (could you post any reference?).

Within your budget there really are a lot of possible contenders:
-MarkBass
-Ampeg PF350 or PF500
-TC Elcetronics BH500
-Ibanez Promethean
-etc.

Recently I went to the same process as you, and ended up buying the Ampeg PF500. Best sound to my ears, and one of the most versatile within that budget (headphones, compressor, effect loop).

Personally, I've owned the MarkBass (because so many people wrote good things about it) but it never really rocked my boat. The basic sound was a bit too hifi for me (dare I say boring) and the knob that is meant to tame that (the VLF) just clinically removed top end, making it even more boring. The sound just never got 'warm' (if that makes any sence at all).

But.... I don't like hifi bass sounds.

In the end (as everybody already told) try out and judge for yourself.

[Dad3353]

Good afternoon, Dusty...

Just thought I'd bring this BC ad...

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=140167&hl="]Hartke 2 x 250 amp...[/url]

...to your attention (not mine, just seems to fit your bill, offered by a fellow BC member...)

It has two power amps, so one can drive the 18", 4 ohms, and the other side drive the mids. The EQ is fine on these amps, imho, very flexible without being too fussy. Not a bad price, either, it seems. Worth a shot..?

Hope this helps.

Edited July 11, 2011 by Dad3353

[xgsjx]

But the problem with the so called "perfect stack", is snake oil. A 4x10 will have a much narrower dispertion as there are vertically aligned drivers pushing soundwaves against each other & adding a different sized driver just adds another problem with different sized soundwaves bouncing off one another.
One venue it'll sound great & then another venue with the same settings will sound awful.
Keeping all the same sized drivers means you'll get a more consistent sound & stacking them vertically means you'll get a much better dispertion (there's several topics on mixing cabs already).

+1 on going to a store. -1 on listening to their "technical" knowledge/sales patter.

[dc2009]

[quote name='xgsjx' post='1300003' date='Jul 11 2011, 03:27 PM']But the problem with the so called "perfect stack", is snake oil. A 4x10 will have a much narrower dispertion as there are vertically aligned drivers pushing soundwaves against each other & adding a different sized driver just adds another problem with different sized soundwaves bouncing off one another.
One venue it'll sound great & then another venue with the same settings will sound awful.
Keeping all the same sized drivers means you'll get a more consistent sound & stacking them vertically means you'll get a much better dispertion (there's several topics on mixing cabs already).

+1 on going to a store. -1 on listening to their "technical" knowledge/sales patter.[/quote]

I believe my marshall is separate chambered to avoid this wave malarkey you are on about.

I'm very good with understanding of waves/this type of thing though my knowledge of this particular area is pretty much nil, if you could point me towards some good links it'd be appreciated, technical ones aren't a bother either (I am meant to be an engineer after all).

As for listening to their technical knowledge I think it depends where you go and who you talk to. Some people are knowledgeable, some are just salesmen, some are both and others neither. Some tips:
1) Don't bother listening to anyone that isn't a bass specialist, (or they at least need some serious experience of playing bass)
2) The way to not soak up sales patter is just to listen to the facts: if they say it's a 500W head at 4ohms with 4 tubes, it probably is (or at least something very close). If they say, it sounds great, ignore them and make up your own mind.
3) Pick a set up as close to your own as you can. If you can manage it or get a lift, take your own cab in! Use a bass similar to your own or take your own in. You won't be able to control the room size and dynamics, but then you can't do that in different live environments, so make sure you test the versatility!
4) If you've got those funds in cash you hold an advantage, don't be afraid to try gear up to £500 if you have the cash. Many people pay on card these days, and you might be able to talk them down if you have the cash in hand there and then.

Edited July 11, 2011 by dc2009

[alexclaber]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1300064' date='Jul 11 2011, 04:30 PM']I'm very good with understanding of waves/this type of thing though my knowledge of this particular area is pretty much nil, if you could point me towards some good links it'd be appreciated, technical ones aren't a bother either (I am meant to be an engineer after all).[/quote]

I've written quite a bit on this, which can be found in the technical info and BGM articles sections of the Barefaced website. Regarding music/hi-fi shop technical expertise, I've yet to come across a single member of staff that really understands what they're talking about - that doesn't mean there aren't any out there but the fact is that audio and acoustics is rarely intuitive and so what seems obvious and passes into guitar shop folklore is usually wrong!

[dc2009]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='1300116' date='Jul 11 2011, 05:32 PM']I've written quite a bit on this, which can be found in the technical info and BGM articles sections of the Barefaced website. Regarding music/hi-fi shop technical expertise, I've yet to come across a single member of staff that really understands what they're talking about - that doesn't mean there aren't any out there but the fact is that audio and acoustics is rarely intuitive and so what seems obvious and passes into guitar shop folklore is usually wrong![/quote]

Will give that stuff a read either tonight, or more likely tomorrow in work. Thanks!

[alexclaber]

Read the bit about volume displacement on there! Sd x Xmax. The problem with many small drivers (and indeed the problem with most cheap cabs regardless of cone diameter) is a lack of Xmax. I'm working on a single 8" at the moment that can move more air (and thus generate greater LF SPL) than most 15"s on the market! Try getting that out of the 8"s I've seen in past bass cabs and you'll have a dead speaker on your hands...

[BassBod]

An 8" Barefaced....hmm that's got me interested!

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1300280' date='Jul 11 2011, 08:37 PM']Remember those 8" speakers used in ashdowns for ages? They struggled for bass like anything, I think it's the same with anything.[/quote]
Can't speak for the Ashdowns, but I remember depping a guitar gig in the 80's where the bass player was running a pair of 8 x 6" cabs. V-fronted with 4 either side of the join. Sixteen 6" speakers ffs. Weirdest thing I ever saw, probably home-made. He fired it up and it was just [i]savage[/i] Can't recall what amp he was using. Old age, y'see.

As for the OP, I'd say get an old Peavey head to match. Cheap as chips, it'll cover you for the while and give you a benchmark. When you've made your mind up, chop in the Peavey rig here and start shopping.

Edited July 11, 2011 by skankdelvar

[dc2009]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='1300312' date='Jul 11 2011, 09:13 PM']Can't speak for the Ashdowns, but I remember depping a guitar gig in the 80's where the bass player was running a pair of 8 x 6" cabs. V-fronted with 4 either side of the join. Sixteen 6" speakers ffs. Weirdest thing I ever saw, probably home-made. He fired it up and it was just [i]savage[/i] Can't recall what amp he was using. Old age, y'see.

As for the OP, I'd say get an old Peavey head to match. Cheap as chips, it'll cover you for the while and give you a benchmark. When you've made your mind up, chop in the Peavey rig here and start shopping.[/quote]


It's bizarre that 16x6" is just two of my marshall, but awful. My marshall is also for sale in the relevant section (shameless plug )

As for your suggestion, I think you're correct. Peavey stuff is super cheap on here, fleabay or gumtree, even freeads they turn up often enough!

[xgsjx]

PJB use 6" drivers in their cabs & don't struggle for bass.
Also have a look at what Bill Fitzmaurice does with 10" drivers if you don't believe just one cab designer/builder on here (that's Alex).

[url="http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/index.html"]http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/index.html[/url]

It's more about cab design & getting the most from a driver than what size of driver is in the cab.
In olden days, 4x10s & 1x18s had more bass mainly because they used a bigger cab than a 2x10. Nowadays you'll get just as much bass from a well designed 2x10 or 2x12 & better dispersion (if put vertically).

[BasH]

When you toy around with that WinISD programm (for calculating cab sizes etc.) you discover that you can get a good bass response from 10", 12" 15" or 18" speakers (didn't try it with 8" ones).

Where cabs with smaller drivers usually mess up is cab size.
For a good bass extension you usually need some volume (depending on the speaker type/brand what is the optimal volume), but people usually don't want a 10" cab to be the size of a 15" one...
So many cabs with small drivers simply are too small for a good bass response. For 15" and 18" ones less so.



In the image the green is the 10" the blue the 12" and the pink the 15" driver...
So this is the reverse from what you'd expect, but...

Look at the cab volume needed for the 10" and 12" ones.
No one is going to build a 2x10" that big (anymore).


That is also the reason why, on most of these home cinema systems (with these tiny speakers), everyone sounds like a chipmunk.

Edited July 13, 2011 by BasH