Amp & Cab Purchase Advice - to Genz or not?

[andydye]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1302499' date='Jul 13 2011, 03:43 PM']Ive owned the S 9.0, and the RH450. I currently have the STL900 and the RH750.

I can tell you from this experience that the TC RH amps are very very high quality, and the 'tubetone' sounds MUCH more like a real tube amp compared to the S9.0. The 9.0 tube sounded a little fizzy.

Weight isnt really a factor when it comes to these amps. However, I found the Shuttle amps to be a bit 'flimsy' because they are SO light, and in fact, I was worried they would fly off the top of my cabinet.

Wattage doesnt really come into it as all the manufacturers seem to rate them differently.

Markbass 500W amps seem to have almost as much headroom as the Shuttle 9.0 amps...almost.

The TC RH amps are VERY loud, and dont sound digital at all.

If you want a real tube design in a class D amp, it has to be the Streamliner 900. Higher quality build and slightly high weight compared to the Shuttle series. Very very beefy in the low end, and sweeter highs than the Shuttles. The difference is night and day.

The RH750 does everything you could think of...expensive, but a very impressive amp. Loud, light, high quality build, lots of headroom, great tubetone, etc etc.[/quote]

Hiya,

Life is never as simple at you might hope, I really need to go and try these somewhere, problem is nowehere near me stocks them, it's either London or Coventry! Which is why I asked if anyone had them/had tried them so I could lean on their experience to produce a shortlist...

I need to try the Shuttle 6 and 9 and Streamliner 9 and also compare with the TC stuff even though it's more expensive and unlikely to fit my meagre budget...

Thanks matey!

[andydye]

[quote name='jimrs2k' post='1302550' date='Jul 13 2011, 04:16 PM']I went for the shuttlemax 9.2 and paired with my fearful 15/6/1 and it the best sounding light weight rig ive ever heard, full stop.
As the barefaced cabs are similar i would imagine it to be about the same.
for me the the RH 750/450 were too coloured for my taste.[/quote]

I think I've whittled it down to the point where it's becoming slight differences of opinion as to what is preferred by the posters (some like TC and some like GB), am definately very incliced towards GB (either Shuttle or Streamliner) and need to try them out!

Thanks matey

[alexclaber]

Any accurately rated 500W amp will have almost as much headroom as an similarly accurately 900W amp! It's less than a 2:1 difference, which is less than 3dB. And when you figure in power compression the difference is even less. For differences in power to be truly significant you have to think in ratios of 3:1 or more. 400W difference is a lot if you're going from 200W to 600W (1:3) but almost nothing if you're going from 1200W to 1600W (3:4).

When you're looking at these lightweight bass amps, the amp you like most will be the one that has the right feel for you, which will often be the one that reaches its limit in the way that you most like, and that too will be the amp that you deem loudest. Thus some will deem Markbass amps loudest, some Genz, some TC, etc... No-one's wrong but no-one's right either!

[andydye]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='1302603' date='Jul 13 2011, 05:09 PM']Any accurately rated 500W amp will have almost as much headroom as an similarly accurately 900W amp! It's less than a 2:1 difference, which is less than 3dB. And when you figure in power compression the difference is even less. For differences in power to be truly significant you have to think in ratios of 3:1 or more. 400W difference is a lot if you're going from 200W to 600W (1:3) but almost nothing if you're going from 1200W to 1600W (3:4).

When you're looking at these lightweight bass amps, the amp you like most will be the one that has the right feel for you, which will often be the one that reaches its limit in the way that you most like, and that too will be the amp that you deem loudest. Thus some will deem Markbass amps loudest, some Genz, some TC, etc... No-one's wrong but no-one's right either! [/quote]

Eminently good sense as I'm coming to expect from you sir!

Thanks again!

[Owen]

Andy, I feel your pain. Auditioning with your eyes instead of your ears as all of us who do not live close to any of the larger music shops is a total lottery. My answer will ultimately be to max out my credit card and order 3 or 4 candidates and mess with them with my own kit and then send all but one back under the distance selling regs which mean you can send anything back within a fortnight.

[andydye]

[quote name='owen' post='1302639' date='Jul 13 2011, 05:50 PM']Andy, I feel your pain. Auditioning with your eyes instead of your ears as all of us who do not live close to any of the larger music shops is a total lottery. My answer will ultimately be to max out my credit card and order 3 or 4 candidates and mess with them with my own kit and then send all but one back under the distance selling regs which mean you can send anything back within a fortnight.[/quote]

Cheeky but I love it!

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' post='1301173' date='Jul 12 2011, 03:40 PM']I'm very happy with my STL9.0/12T rig. The head has more bottom comparing with the 6.0 but i find the cab a bit lacking on that region. GB gear is exactly as described, very transparent and clean sounding. You can't go wrong with the 9.0 but i would try other cabs (if possible) before buying.[/quote]
If I had a pound for pointing out both the 6.0 and 9.0 have exactly the same around 37Hz Shelf with the low button engaged and 80hz shelf without I'd be rich! (well about £8 richer ) This myth started early on when a review stated the 9.0 as 37hz and the 6.0 as 80hz shelved, they can both do either and the internal components are exactly the same the only difference is the final output stage after any sound alterations have been dealt with. Any extra bottom end at regular volumes bearing in mind a 6 with a 4ohm 4x10 or 2x12 is good for a 1000+ venue without PA support is a placebo, I don't see many people having trouble with a 6 or a 9.


Also speaking as someone who has both the Genz 12T and the Genz 600w 4ohm 2x12T I can say with certainty my 6.0 through the 2x12 would destroy a 9.0 through a 1x12 from 37hz through to the top end

Edited July 15, 2011 by stingrayPete1977

[andydye]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1305217' date='Jul 15 2011, 09:40 PM']If I had a pound for pointing out both the 6.0 and 9.0 have exactly the same around 37Hz Shelf with the low button engaged and 80hz shelf without I'd be rich! (well about £8 richer ) This myth started early on when a review stated the 9.0 as 37hz and the 6.0 as 80hz shelved, they can both do either and the internal components are exactly the same the only difference is the final output stage after any sound alterations have been dealt with. Any extra bottom end at regular volumes bearing in mind a 6 with a 4ohm 4x10 or 2x12 is good for a 1000+ venue without PA support I don't see many people having trouble with a 6 or a 9.[/quote]

I love a good myth debunking, monster helpful! Thanks matey

[Musicman20]

I think the '9.0' is meatier came from Genz themselves?!

Im sure it did.

Whether its just headroom or voicing, the lows on the 9.0 are thicker and fuller, but the 6.0 will get there with tweaks.

Then they went all out on the Streamliner and introduced and amp with SO much usable low end, that people are cutting it!

The SL900 is a real 'meat and potatoes back to basics' bass amp. Clean tube fatness, but with a sweet high end, (nothing shrill). It sounds massive.

[andydye]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1305236' date='Jul 15 2011, 09:52 PM']I think the '9.0' is meatier came from Genz themselves?!

Im sure it did.

Whether its just headroom or voicing, the lows on the 9.0 are thicker and fuller, but the 6.0 will get there with tweaks.

Then they went all out on the Streamliner and introduced and amp with SO much usable low end, that people are cutting it!

The SL900 is a real 'meat and potatoes back to basics' bass amp. Clean tube fatness, but with a sweet high end, (nothing shrill). It sounds massive.[/quote]

Streamliner 9 sounds perfect, I really need to get somewhere and try 'em

[Musicman20]

[quote name='andydye' post='1305245' date='Jul 15 2011, 09:55 PM']Streamliner 9 sounds perfect, I really need to get somewhere and try 'em[/quote]

Its got its own niche, ill give it that.

Its very clear, especially with the gain down, so it will show your notes and any mistakes haha!

But, whack the gain up and you end up with more 'sponge' like a real tube amp....less of a 'digital/modern' response, and more of a clean tube response. Whack it up more, and its distortion central!

Ive set it at Bass 11, Mids 1-2, Mid Range lowest (200?!), and Treble is the only one I change (usually toned down to 11, although for a more modern sound, I crank it to 2-3.

[stingrayPete1977]

I can't see the headroom factoring in at normal volumes, Trust me the schematic diagram right up to the final output is identicle in every single way, The tech spec in both manuals (view them and the diagrams on the gb site) for the controls are all the same too for the 6 and 9.

If anyone has a 9.0 in the Staffs area I would be intrigued to try them a-b?

I believe sales speech has been a foundation of the myth too, more is better etc.

[stingrayPete1977]

It has been discussed at length here on BC but 2 1x12's still lacks the thump and volume of a 2x12, Alex C has explained it before in depth im sure? I started with the 2x12T but there is a problem, Its too loud! Even with the volume right down its too much for the smallest of pubs really so switching to the 8 ohm 1x12 just meens you can push the amp a little harder yet get the same (or perceived same?) volume. Now you have me thinking if I had another 1x12T I would have the option to get that sound but without the volume of my 2x12T, More GAS!. I Played outdoor at Stafford castle last sunday with just the 1x12 as a back line and it coped well enough in fact its the highs that seem to break up more than the lows they stayed quite fat which may explain why so many DB players use Genz 1x12 cabs?

[Doddy]

My 2 pence worth..... I've used a Genz Benz Neo Pak 3.5 through a Bergantino HS410
for a few years now and it sounds awesome.

[andydye]

so, having dithered around variations on the theme and listened to the noise barefaced are making around this forum just now it's gonna be a Shuttle 9.0 and a Midget-T.

Thanks for your help gents!

[JTUK]

[quote name='andydye' post='1315623' date='Jul 25 2011, 12:32 PM']so, having dithered around variations on the theme and listened to the noise barefaced are making around this forum just now it's gonna be a Shuttle 9.0 and a Midget-T.

Thanks for your help gents![/quote]


Take info on forums with a pinch of salt.

Only you can really say whether a certain cab will or will not work..and then only when you have it and have played through it in the circumstances you need it most in.

You might find there are as many discenters as there are fans for cab A or B... or amp Y or Z
There is plenty of stuff on here and other places about plenty of kit...you just need to do some research.

There might well be stuff that is hyped up on here that is only known about on here because the makers of that kit only sell on here.

It can be an easy market as well.

[andydye]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1315696' date='Jul 25 2011, 01:33 PM']Take info on forums with a pinch of salt.

Only you can really say whether a certain cab will or will not work..and then only when you have it and have played through it in the circumstances you need it most in.

You might find there are as many discenters as there are fans for cab A or B... or amp Y or Z
There is plenty of stuff on here and other places about plenty of kit...you just need to do some research.

There might well be stuff that is hyped up on here that is only known about on here because the makers of that kit only sell on here.

It can be an easy market as well.[/quote]

Absolutely matey, I did lots of 'mental auditioning' by reading manuals and looking at specs before asking for actual experience of this kit to help me narrow down my options, it included reading through barefaced's website and tbh their numbers look amazing and the feedback from owners is outstanding! That and a few email chats with Alex at Barefaced somewhat sealed my fate as it were, he's knowledgeable and helpful.

I'm hoping to head down to the gallery in Camden this next weekend so I can try a couple of heads but I'm probably going to be coming home with a Shuttle 9 (and hopefully without my PJB SixPack too!)

I may or may not pick up a cab while I'm there but I may also be trying out a Midget-T on Alex's 'try for a month and return if you don't like it' policy...

Edited July 30, 2011 by andydye